Why is it considered selfish to be childless by choice?

[DefCon1]

A couple of things immediately came to mind.

I've never ever heard anyone suggest it's "immoral" to be childless by choice. It is just that, a choice, and I commend you for recognizing that it's not for you. But no one I know would judge you for that, so perhaps it's something you've perceived that isn't necessarily true.

I always knew I wanted kids and it's been the best thing in my life....not because I want little Mini Me's running around, but because I have a strong maternal pull and am nurturing. I think it is an amazingly beautiful thing to create a child, who then gets to enjoy a life as I have. If your parents had the same attitude as you....well, think of that as you are focusing on the things that make life worthwhile to you. Remember, you were once that kid running around crying and whatnot. So, to each his/her own applies and both sides of the argument are equally "right"...it's a personal decision to make and there is no right or wrong in it.

This part: Kids causes so much trouble, all they do is cry, running around, yell or rude to other people is a statement based on ignorance and inexperience. Children do that at times, yes. Often because of fatigue, excitement or just a way to express themselves when they haven't yet learned appropriate ways to do so. And it's more a reflection of the parents, not the kids. It's a parents job to attend to the child if he/she is disrupting others. But yes, kids are emotional fireballs at times....usually it's an easy distraction and they're fine.

There are adults who cause as much chaos and inconvenience. Kids on a plane are generally highly excitable and/or fearful. It is normal to experience some turbulence.

There is no expectation to have a child and I'm happy that you have decided not to, as it does not appear it would be the right decision. But others do have children as they bring absolute joy and a true purpose for living....just because it isn't a fit for you it doesn't take away that feeling for others.

Investing time and money in a child is the best use of it for someone who wants kids. The thing is, it's an ongoing process from day one and, if done properly and consistently, generally gets easier over time.

I totally agree, although I guess it depends on the individual. Imagine raising a kid who would eventually become an important part of society like a doctor and would probably become your saviour once you become old and need someone to take care of you. In my mind, having kids and family is important because of having more people around you that would care for you and also leaving a legacy behind. Although having kids is again based on the individual's situation and some people might not agree with my point of view. One thing is for sure, I rather die with some people around me than die of loneliness. I already know some people who are old but regret in not having kids or a family that could take care of them.

[DefCon1]

Surprised that this is even a question. The stereotype of people that don't want kids is of overgrown children themselves, similarly obnoxious and selfish as the beings they hate so much.

I don't think people look down on the idea of not having kids as much as they hate childish superiority of some people that decide to stay child free.

I look down on it the same way I look down on people that decide to have kids in order to fulfill some selfish desires. It borders on narcissism when I listen to some of the reasons. Have you seen Young Adult starring Charlize Theron?

And you can bitch about traveling and self satisfaction through "living" all you want, but have the perspective to realize we are sexual beings who have created civilizations, institutions and infrastructure around the very idea of growing up in a nest and leaving it to build our own. Are you really surprised that when the essential need as individual members of our species is to pass down genes, and some contrarians decide it's not necessary, that our primal instincts find them pitiful? It's about as natural as a boner.

I don't really like the "the world has 7 billion people excuse" from a First Worlder who is currently consuming double or triple the resources someone in a population dense area would in the rest of the world. There is plenty to go around here for new life.

edit: also lol at the polls, I guarantee you 3/4 of the people who said no will have kids. It's like asking 4 year olds if they will ever get married, of course they will say no.

I totally agree with you. I do sometimes look at people who don't want to have kids as selfish if their reasoning is about travel or having fun or other things in life that isn't necessarily a priority. I would understand people who don't want kids if their reasoning is financial inability to support a family, or school or time that they might not have to share with their family but reasons such as traveling or having fun just seems a bit selfish to me. Also, having kids doesn't necessarily impede you of the activities you want to do in the future since kids eventually grow up.

[Riviera82]

I only have one child, a 17 month old boy, and even though he can be a lot of work I wouldn't trade him for the world. He was unplanned, an accident some might say, but even despite the initial shock and fear of finding out that he was coming in 9 months I was probably the happiest I'd ever been.

It's ok to not want kids but if the "unthinkable" should happen, a person's perspective can change. Even though I thought I wasn't ready, my son is by far the greatest gift I've ever gotten and if I found out I had another one on the way I'd consider it a blessing.

[DefCon1]

I only have one child, a 17 month old boy, and even though he can be a lot of work I wouldn't trade him for the world. He was unplanned, an accident some might say, but even despite the initial shock and fear of finding out that he was coming in 9 months I was probably the happiest I'd ever been.

It's ok to not want kids but if the "unthinkable" should happen, a person's perspective can change. Even though I thought I wasn't ready, my son is by far the greatest gift I've ever gotten and if I found out I had another one on the way I'd consider it a blessing.

Yeah, in a way it does seem to change a person's perspective of not having a kid once they suddenly have one. Maybe the people who hate kids would change their mind if they had one too since they really don't know how its like to have kids. In a way, you can't really say you hate kids unless if you had experience having one and still regret it. Its kind of like hating a food because of its look or smell, then trying it and realizing that hey, its not that bad.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

You guys are really overcomplicating things. It's time to oversimplify, oversimplify, and oversimplify.

RELIGION. FAMILY CULTURE. ANIMAL INSTINCT.

[hsedin33]

In my entire life I've never heard this, and if you worry about what people will think, then you are probably too much of a pushover to properly care for a child, no joke. Being a parent, you gotta be tough sometimes from what I see. I said no to the poll question, the world is vastly overpopulated as it is, we cant even take care of all the humans we have on it now. With global warming becoming an issue, I foresee food and water shortages and I don't want to being a child into that.

[vavoom]

First off, its not immoral, I don't think I've ever heard of that. Perhaps this is just a bit of projection on the part of the OP?

Second, It seems like OP is trying to convince himself/herself that this is the right choice?

Anyway, I'm a father of a 10 month old girl. I sometimes miss the nights out, freedom and travel. But at the end of each workday, I'm greeted at home with a genuine smile, I wouldn't trade that for anything.

I don't think you can do cold hard math on a topic like this.

[Buddhas Hand]

I did not want kids , I loved my freedom , travelling the world ski-bumming , be able to do what ever i wanted when ever i wanted , i am older and set in my ways

I also have genuine concerns about bringing a child into this fracked up world

Then my partner really wanted to have a child , I tried to dissuade her , but she was so driven to create life.

I then went through a very painfull process of finding out i was sterile , then we went on IVF here in Aus and the whole time i was hoping that it would not work.

Eventually they threw us off the program , here in aus they will not use a womans own eggs after 46.

I thought beauty i have got out of having a kid , then my partner found out about a clinic in south africa and we flew there for one last shot at getting pregnant ........ and it worked.

I was not very happy all through the pregnancy , i did support my girl but my heart was not in it.

Then my son was born ,C-section , so i got to hold him first , the moment i looked into his eyes i was moved beyond words

Within months an hour after leaving home for work i would be looking forward to geting home just to see Lachie.

I love my girl with all my heart , I love my parent and bro and friends but my love for my son is another level of love , i have never felt this way about another person.

[aGENT]

This is just for the sake of discussion. Society seems to have an expectations towards married couple where a child is pretty much essential at some point in their life? Why is it such a taboo to remain childfree? Personally, I would rather used the time and resource to buy the things i want or used the time to travel to different places like Europe, Japan, heck, I take travelling to Toronto over having kids.

People who wants kids would say having children is wonderful because you can pass your ideals and legacy to the next generation, or they say they want their children to take care of them when they are old. In my humble opinion, that is the exact definition of selfishness. What makes you think your ideals and legacy is so great that you need to pass it on to the next generation? Maybe your child doesn't want to follow your footstep, have you think of that? Also, having a child doesn't mean someone will take care of you when you got old, it's totally possible that you didn't raise your kids probably and they just end up abandon you in an old folks home and take all your hardwork money.

Kids causes so much trouble, all they do is cry, running around, yell or rude to other people. Rarely would they remain quiet or sit still, last time I was on a plane, a kid was pretty much crying or yelling for the entire duration of the flight. It simply takes too much time/money/effort to teach a child properly and in my opinion, simply wasn't worth the effort.

What do you think?

Firstly, as has been plainly pointed out by others. Very few people, if any, consider it immoral.

Frankly given your post, seemingly selfishness and general attitude I'm glad you've decided kids aren't for you (at least at this point). You'd likely be a distant, disinterested parent who resented their kid(s). Hardly healthy for either of you.

People who decide to get married and have kids because they're "supposed to" because it's expected of them or because they have some ridiculous "life plan" tend to make horrible parents in my experience.

As for why my wife and I decided to have kids... Besides the obvious biological desire, as cheesy as it may sound, producing something from the love of you and your SO, nurturing it, watching it grow, learn, love, play, be comforted etc and beaming with pride at all their accomplishments, the sheer joy and wonder in their eyes watching them experience and learn new things, it's intoxicating stuff.

All the toys, trips to Hawaii, Italy etc wouldn't ever make up fo it IMO.

Kids are hard. HARD. They can try your patience, exhaust you, fight with you, frustrate you, keep you up at night etc, etc but for this guy it's all worth it. It's a choice. My wife and I chose to take our love an create a whole other couple of people with it. To nurture them through all those ups and downs, through the financial hardships and stress and love and joy. We chose to do without so my wife could stay home with them, we chose to travel less and have less nights out at restaurants etc.

It's not for everybody but for those it is I don't think any would trade it for anything. If it's not for you...by all means carry on.

married with no kids here. We don't want them. We like our things and our leisure and our money just fine thanks. Also to the folks who choose to have kids: we are not the village that it takes to raise them. Stop expecting society to pick up the tab on your choice.

Funny thing about that village. Without kids, it disappears.

When you're old and dying and you have no family to care for you, remember that that hospital bed you're lying in has doctors and nurses coming to stand by it and treat you, who are kids now. I bet you're hoping their village helped to raise them well then.

Perhaps the mechanic who botched the brake job on your car that's put you in the hospital didn't have a supportive village around them?

[Mr.Habitat]

I'm disgusted by most of you in this thread.

[King Heffy]

I'm disgusted by most of you in this thread.

Care to elaborate as to the reasons behind this?

[gfyracing]

If you don't want kids don't have them, that's your choice, don't let others judge you over that cause really who cares about someone else's opinion.

In my case I don't want to travel, fat men shouldn't fly cause gravity has too strong of an attraction to us and I don't care about having much materialistically speaking. I'm happy hanging out and doing stuff with my wife and two boys. I don't see my kids as a legacy or continuing my family name, I see them as my present and my future, they are my best buds.

[vancouvercanucks2010]

A couple of things immediately came to mind.

I've never ever heard anyone suggest it's "immoral" to be childless by choice. It is just that, a choice, and I commend you for recognizing that it's not for you. But no one I know would judge you for that, so perhaps it's something you've perceived that isn't necessarily true.

I always knew I wanted kids and it's been the best thing in my life....not because I want little Mini Me's running around, but because I have a strong maternal pull and am nurturing. I think it is an amazingly beautiful thing to create a child, who then gets to enjoy a life as I have. If your parents had the same attitude as you....well, think of that as you are focusing on the things that make life worthwhile to you. Remember, you were once that kid running around crying and whatnot. So, to each his/her own applies and both sides of the argument are equally "right"...it's a personal decision to make and there is no right or wrong in it.

This part: Kids causes so much trouble, all they do is cry, running around, yell or rude to other people is a statement based on ignorance and inexperience. Children do that at times, yes. Often because of fatigue, excitement or just a way to express themselves when they haven't yet learned appropriate ways to do so. And it's more a reflection of the parents, not the kids. It's a parents job to attend to the child if he/she is disrupting others. But yes, kids are emotional fireballs at times....usually it's an easy distraction and they're fine.

There are adults who cause as much chaos and inconvenience. Kids on a plane are generally highly excitable and/or fearful. It is normal to experience some turbulence.

There is no expectation to have a child and I'm happy that you have decided not to, as it does not appear it would be the right decision. But others do have children as they bring absolute joy and a true purpose for living....just because it isn't a fit for you it doesn't take away that feeling for others.

Investing time and money in a child is the best use of it for someone who wants kids. The thing is, it's an ongoing process from day one and, if done properly and consistently, generally gets easier over time.

Thank you for your response, you have made such good arguments. Of course I remember when I was a kid, that in fact increase my motivation not to have kids to be honest

I bet you wish your parents didn't have to go through all that crap. Maybe they wish they could go back in time and not make you...

Just for the sake of discussion.

Hmmm....you seems to be offended by my post..No idea why.

Here you go, this is pretty good

http://www.gotquestions.org/should-I-have-children.html

Also look into 1 Tim. 5:8 for the practical side of things (make sure you can afford the lifestyle for your family based on what you're making).

Thanks brother!

Was going to say this. The child acts based on what the parents will allow them to do. Establish proper conduct at an early age and they'll be fine. I've seen both ends of the spectrum in how a child acts as they grow up (sibling and nephew) and it's quite drastic the change parenting makes.

Exactly. Most families don't really have a 'legacy' to pass on anyways. Bloodline, or more specifically, the last name, is what concerns me. Maybe it's because I'm of asian descent and the family name is strongly valued, but in my family at least, heavy emphasis is put on continuing the family name.

Besides, there is a rather large age gap between me and my brother, so I basically helped raise him. It wasn't nearly as bad as the OP tries to make it out to be (though again, it will differ between families), and I wouldn't mind having to raise my own child.

Yes, i agree with this, however I think using the time and resource to have fun is much better than establishing proper conduct with a child, plus you have to walk the walk, you cannot be setting up the rules just for the kids, which in the end of the day you cannot even follow. For example, no ipad/PS4 gaming for kids but yet the parents is playing with it all day. I am not suggesting i give up on parenthoods due to its difficulty, to me its just not worth the effort.

Bottomline is if you think for yourself(which there is nothing wrong with doing) its better to not have kids and you will be happy.

But if your one of those people that believes that giving in life is what brings joy in it then having children will make you happy. There was a study that came out that stated parents spend close to a $500K on their kids. Being a parent is basically a relationship where you keep giving and receiving(if you parent and nurture them they right way) which is the beauty of it. Your kids give back to you with each one of their achievements doesn't matter how little it is. When they do it, feels like you have done it. They become extensions of you. You become selfless to them, basically like you do when you first fall in true love. And like Einstein said "Love is the most powerful force in the Universe".

When I was younger I always used to think I was the first type but I realize now that I am the second. To find out what you truly are picture yourself in a rocking chair, you are retired, in okay health, basically waiting for death and you are 67 years old. If at this moment you regret not having had kids then your type b. If you feel that material riches and getting to see the beauty of the world have kept you happy your entire life then you are that rare type that deep down inside never wants kids.

Yes, i guess i am that rare type. The challenge is to find a girl that shares the same vision as me:(

[Mr.Habitat]

Kids are the life blood of the future.

Children ... Children ... Future ... Future.

It's a human duty

[420since1974]

Some people have children believing it gives them some kind of pseudo- immortality through passing on their genes and possibly name.

Personally, I don't care about anyone else's choice to be a parent or not.

Everyone needs to make their own decision, and not worry about what anyone else thinks about it.

[aeromotacanucks]

have kids involve much more choose the right girl/woman than many people think...

you gonna have to raise and educate the kid, share values, personal things, ideals etc...

and you have to have the right girl/woman to do that. a girl that is too dump or is too "hot head" will cause to much problem in the house will be a problem not for you but for the kid.

so, at least for me. before even think about kids I have to think about find the REAL good girl/woman...

[King Heffy]

Kids are the life blood of the future.

Children ... Children ... Future ... Future.

It's a human duty

So do you consider it beneficial to humanity to have children raised by people who really don't want to be parents?

[vancouvercanucks2010]

have kids involve much more choose the right girl/woman than many people think...

you gonna have to raise and educate the kid, share values, personal things, ideals etc...

and you have to have the right girl/woman to do that. a girl that is too dump or is too "hot head" will cause to much problem in the house will be a problem not for you but for the kid.

so, at least for me. before even think about kids I have to think about find the REAL good girl/woman...

Instead of that,how about just find a woman who doesn't want children as well.

So do you consider it beneficial to humanity to have children raised by people who really don't want to be parents?

Just ignore him

[Ronalds.Kenins41]

So do you consider it beneficial to humanity to have children raised by people who really don't want to be parents?

It actually is beneficial to humanity let me explain.

Lets say all of a sudden there was a trend where 80% of couples didn't want to have kids in North America and they stick by that choice for life. Here's what would happen.

Because the couples now don't have kids, they won't be contributing to the infant product economy, the toddler product, children product, tween product and teenager products. All in all during a lifetime parents spend between $500,000 more then they ever would have had they not had kids. Where does all that money go? For the average North American that money is 60% likely to end up in a place where is not contributing to the local economy (AAII). What does this mean for the overall local economy? It means the economy will end up operating behind it's input meaning less jobs (on a huge scale so that everyone is affected). It means your wages will like freeze even go down. It means everything to humanity.

Class dismissed.

[vancouvercanucks2010]

So you are suggesting we need to introduce another human being in this terrible world, just to maintain our way of living? In my humble opinion, that is the definition of selfish.