TOMapleLaughs Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 As predicted.One of the knocks on advanced stats in the NHL is that theyre not treated as official numbers by the League -- we can find goals and assists on NHL.com, but not Corsi and PDO. This allows critics to treat them like some kind of crazy nerd voodoo rather than an increasingly legitimate means through which to evaluate players, teams and games. Well, it appears to the nerds won. Absolutely, said NHL COO John Collins, at least weekends All-Star Game. Collins confirmed that while the League waits to standardize the new player-tracking system that will eventually quantify puck possession stats more accurately, NHL.com is adding enhanced stats to its collection of player and team statistics. The addition is scheduled for late February. Youre going to see a big change in the way we present our stats, in terms of the depth and the utility of how to do it. And thats before the puck tracking [system], said Collins. Among the 30 or so advanced stats being added to the NHL.com stats pages: * Corsi, which estimates puck possession by totaling shots on goal, missed shots and blocked shots * Fenwick, which does the game minus the blocked shots * PDO, a combination of shooting and save percentage while on the ice at even strength * Zone starts, which designate what percentage of a players shifts begin and end in each zone. * Average shot distance * Goals and assists per 20 minutes and 60 minutes * Penalties drawn and taken per 20 minutes and 60 minutes The possession stats (Corsi, Fenwick) will also be presented in several ways, including game situations and as percentages in comparison to other players on the team. The plan is to have all of this ready to roll next month, with the numbers going back to the 2010-11 season in its own stats table. The NHL says real-time enhanced stats for every game are in the plans. How did the nerds win? By convincing the NHL that theres a consumer base for these advanced stats. The League has watched a cottage industry of different stats sites gain prominence, using the NHLs own game sheets to scrape data and compute it. In some cases, the founders of these sites have found employment in the League. Last summer, the League changed its terms of service agreement on NHL.com to ban unauthorized spidering, scraping or harvesting of content from the site. The speculation at the time was that the NHL was preparing its own advanced site, and thats come to fruition. To combat those competing sites, the NHL can boast that these are the official advanced stats, based on the ice time numbers the League collects from games. (Keep in mind the advanced stats coming to NHL.com next months are still from the current game sheets, not from the puck tracking software.) The fact is that Collins and others in the League see these metrics as a way to better sell their players and tell their stories. Same goes for the puck-tracking data, some of which we saw for the first time at the All-Star Game. Its going to be able to help them to tell stories. Itll give them a frame of reference in comparison to football and soccer. How fast a goalie moves in comparison to a pitchers fastball, he said. These additions are like the opening whistle for major changes on NHL.com in the coming months, maybe years. We need to create a digital record of what happens on the ice. Thats standard across the league, and goes much deeper than the current real-time scoring system, said Collins. When that player tracking data is standardized, its possible that Corsi and Fenwick turn into some other possession metric as the need to project those numbers becomes outdated. But for now, the NHL is giving the validity of these fan-driven "fancy stats" an undeniable endorsement. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nhl-com-adding-corsi--fenwick--enhanced-stats-next-month-233506566.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw Now that 'advanced' stats are going to become plain as rain, it should be interesting to see how competing sites respond. Find more nhl numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 NHL.com with its nice interface and now with these additions will be the go to place to go to get stats now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoman13 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Cool! I love stats :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 The drag of it all is that some players might actually use corsi numbers as a means to get higher contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 More ammo for us to talk about how crappy ****** is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The drag of it all is that some players might actually use corsi numbers as a means to get higher contracts. Just because they're being added to the NHL.com website? Please, they were using them before this if they had any value during negotiations at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Wait will they show the stats for 2010-2011 or 2011-2012 cause they said they would do it "as far back as 2010-2011". I want to see how good we really were in 2010-2011 cause we were basically at he top in every category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Just because they're being added to the NHL.com website? Please, they were using them before this if they had any value during negotiations at all.Tanev thread mentions NHL using corsi now means it's admissible for arbitration. I think it's kinda worthless for this purpose though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 i'm all aboard for this additional data we also need a better replacement for capgeek that was such an amazing, timely, accurate place for salary cap data i really miss it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Tanev thread mentions NHL using corsi now means it's admissible for arbitration. I think it's kinda worthless for this purpose though. Everything paints a little bit more of the picture. Some advanced stats might not look so favourably though, so it can go both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Lots of new info today with the official announcement: Katie Strang @KatieStrangESPN · 2h NHL commissioner Gary Bettman says that today is only the first of several phases that will be rolled out over the next couple of years Phase 2 will be "innovative visualization" and advanced filtering. Phase 3 will include player comparison tools, situational analysis. Phase 4, dubbed the "best of all," will incorporate historical data, including hand-written game sheets that have been digitized Re: potential CapGeek-like function: NHL COO John Collins said it will be an idea the league continues to discuss internally and with clubs Don't get too excited, though. When Bettman was asked about possibility, he seemed much more lukewarm on the idea. Wasn't sure fans want it Also, I asked Collins about NHL potentially charging $ for elements of enhanced stats down the road. He said it will not be part of Phase 1 Collins indicated it might not even be a part of Phase 2. But he did leave the door open for potential subscription elements in future I'm assuming NHL stands to gain quite a bit financially from this endeavor. More eyeballs to site, corporate sponsorships, subscriptions etc Asked Bettman a bit further about the people behind Corsi, Fenwick stats. He said they will be acknowledged, in text form, on the site. Here it is: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=754260&navid=DL|NHL|home … With many new statistics now on NHL.com after the League announced a partnership with enterprise software company SAP, the following is a primer on how some of them came into existence, what they mean, how they're applied, and why they're important. ... Long read there but interesting if you're new to advanced stats. But I don't know how they can be blind to fans wanting a CapGeek replacement. Then again it is Bettman. What fans (including myself) might want though is something independent rather than having an official NHL source that only mirrors what teams want to tell, but there's definitely a market for it. If an NHL version was available that had the actual specifics of contracts then that would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Lots of new info today with the official announcement: Long read there but interesting if you're new to advanced stats. But I don't know how they can be blind to fans wanting a CapGeek replacement. Then again it is Bettman. What fans (including myself) might want though is something independent rather than having an official NHL source that only mirrors what teams want to tell, but there's definitely a market for it. If an NHL version was available that had the actual specifics of contracts then that would be good. Ya we know Advanced Stats Available to Fans on NHL.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Kenins is 7th in the NHL for points per 20 minutes. Just ahead of Nash and Crosby and a bit behind Kane and Voracek. Also, I don't like how they changed the names of Corsi and Fenwick. It seems like they feel as if they have to make it their own special thing. Why not just leave it as it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Marchand Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Kenins is 7th in the NHL for points per 20 minutes. Just ahead of Nash and Crosby and a bit behind Kane and Voracek. Also, I don't like how they changed the names of Corsi and Fenwick. It seems like they feel as if they have to make it their own special thing. Why not just leave it as it was? The name change was probably made to acclimate more casual fans to advanced stats. You have to admit that Corsi, Fenwick, and PDO (which doesn't actually stand for anything) aren't very descriptive of what they actually measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Ya we know Advanced Stats Available to Fans on NHL.com And how's that working out for you? ... Also, I don't like how they changed the names of Corsi and Fenwick. It seems like they feel as if they have to make it their own special thing. Why not just leave it as it was? Yeah, but that's basically how they've been described anyway. Corsi and Fenwick are possession metrics, so I thought they might label them somehow that way, but they aren't wrong. That said, I don't know why they'd need to reinvent the wheel either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaner Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Not really related to this, but I wonder if the players/referees, will be told to not give away pucks during game time due to it has special tracking tech in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I want them to add stuff like giveaways and takeaways. Never understood why those aren't bigger stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The stats show that the Kings, Blackhawks and Lightning are deadly possession teams. Teams with good Corsi when the games are close tend to be more competitive teams and win games (or "clutch"), and those 3 are right there. Meanwhile the Canucks are a middle-of-the-pack Corsi team, especially when the score's close. Funnily enough, Kassian's Corsi rating isn't too bad whereas guys like Dorsett, Stanton, Matthias and Richardson are bringing the team down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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