Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Willie D is making the same mistake Torteralla did.


desiboynux4lifee*******

Recommended Posts

So why are you advocating a complete Oilers style tear down when it has shown to be a bad strategy ?

Look at the Flames. They signed big contracts to Wiedman and Hudler while everyone was saying they should gut the team. They are way ahead of the Oilers now.

The Sedins are going nowhere nor should they. Teams need veterans to teach the young guys how to play properly. The owner is willing to spend to the cap so having the Sedins helps way more then it hurts.

Flames model- Let the picks come to you

Oilers model- Go looking for picks

I am not saying to tear down completely, just trade one of them if Daniel cannot do it anymore in the next season. Keep Henrik until the contract runs out. If we are to trade one of them, at least, split them up to see if Henrik can still play without his brother. So, I believe that splitting up for a short period of time helps the Sedin more for a rejuvanted Sedinery line when they are reunited. If we are to do that, at least, communicate with both twins for their opinion before making decision whether to do this for a short period of time. I would approach them by asking if they want to experiment different line-up looks to draw the opponents match-up issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Torts said the core had to change. Most would agree Vrbata and Miller would be considerable change. Those are core positional players. This has been borne out.

Yeah, but when people say they want the core to change, they mean everybody. Trade them all and somehow get a core back that is younger and better than the one we have now (okay, maybe give them 1 year to develop... then expect them to be better). Because, you know, it's just that easy in nhl15.

Benning said he'd give this core a chance to succeed because, really, he had no other choice. The prospects aren't ready yet and the core pretty much all have NTCs. Yes, we're not elite anymore, but we're still competitive so let's see where the season takes us, you never know in sports.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure I agree but I understand where you're coming from. Problem is if WD benches core players, a lot of people could turn on him.

WD is a rookie, he has no credibility with the veterans. He might be a great NHL coach some day but that will take a while. In the meantime, he can't lose his veterans or he won't last past this year.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for the OP, I'm not sure why it's taking this long to figure out that it wasn't Torts' fault. He might have overplayed the Sedins a bit at season start, but he also didn't have much of a choice. Was it his fault that they and so many others went down to injury? Not really. We have WD now and he's been fine, but I'm not sure if Torts would have done any worse or better. It is interesting to see which players react well to different coaches though.

We should probably just stick with a coach for awhile now.

Sorry,Torts had everything to do with players getting fatigued and going down with injury...Maybe you've just tried to block it out of your mind or something...?..Even when the team was completive at the beginning of last season,many people questioned the wisdom of overplaying 2.5 lines..Sure enough,it ended in spectacular fashion by January (they al tuned him out after that)....Torts was the worst possible choice for this squad (but I thank him for getting us a top ten draft pick and accelerating the change).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not saying to tear down completely, just trade one of them if Daniel cannot do it anymore in the next season. Keep Henrik until the contract runs out. If we are to trade one of them, at least, split them up to see if Henrik can still play without his brother. So, I believe that splitting up for a short period of time helps the Sedin more for a rejuvanted Sedinery line when they are reunited. If we are to do that, at least, communicate with both twins for their opinion before making decision whether to do this for a short period of time. I would approach them by asking if they want to experiment different line-up looks to draw the opponents match-up issues.

It just doesn't happen very often and for a good reason. I don't recall many impact duo's getting split up and traded. There was talk of SJ trading Marleaue but its not happening.

Splitting them up could be tried if we aquired a star LW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We all knew this would happen eventually - just surprised it seems to be starting to be the case already this season.

As much as people want to blame individual players, analyze coaching and line combinations, blame the refs, whatever, the fact it is (IMO) that the team simple doesn't have enough good players in all positions (skaters) to be the team that most people expect it to be (i.e. make the playoffs).

Good comment. The basic problem is the aggregate talent level on the Canucks is not high enough right now. We can say the problem is the first line, or lack of secondary scoring, or not having legitimate top 6 players on the second line, or not enough scoring from the D or whatever.

The Canucks were forunate enough to have two of the top players in the league (the Sedins) during their prime, along a good supporting cast. But they are older now. In the fact, the Sedins and very good for 34 year-olds, but they are not nearly as good as they were 4 or 5 years ago.

Gillis did a terrible job of drafting and made a number of bad trades with the result that the Canucks do not have any high end players in their prime at present except Edler.

The good news is that for the first time in 5 or 6 six years there is a critical mass of good young players in the system -- some on the team, some in Utica, and some in Junior, Europe, or the NCAA.

The Canucks need another good draft and this year's draft is deep, so I am not sure how I feel about making the playoffs. Getting a top 10 pick again this year would add a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of you are stating that the team simply doesn't have the parts(to truly contend) any more. Wouldn't argue with this.

For me it elicits another question. Why bother committing 6 mill to a big name 'tender? Now we'll end up losing 1 or even 2 of our younger gt's, without truly seeing what we've got.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of you are stating that the team simply doesn't have the parts(to truly contend) any more. Wouldn't argue with this.

For me it elicits another question. Why bother committing 6 mill to a big name 'tender? Now we'll end up losing 1 or even 2 of our younger gt's, without truly seeing what we've got.

I think so that there is still a reasonable product on the ice. A very good goalie can make the difference between a win and a loss and that matters to paying fans. Can you imagine where this team would be without a decent goalie? The stands would be empty very soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LolClarkson, when I said bad contracts, it wasn't about the $$$. The money spent was equitable for the market, at the time. Right now, Burrows is over paid, but that is right now, not when he signed. The remainder remain fairly equitable.

And the 14 mill without the Sedins? Not really sure, but there were two players in mind that I really thought we could have gone after, Kris Letang and Matt Moulson. But we didn't, so we move on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for the Sedins, they have 19 goals.........as in combined. They are now on pace for 69 points and falling. Yes, that is a problem.

Nobody is winning a playoff round with 70 point all or nothing scoring forwards.

The Sedins are on pace for the same amount of points production as they had in 2007-8.

Vrbata is the beneficiary of their play with his 19 goals .Their line has 115 points-33% of the entire production of 26 forwards/d.

There has been no PP QB to pad their stats and the Canucks PP is 13th in the league.

The TEAM is 20th in the entire league in goals scored.

Nobody is winning anything without a legitimate PP QB.

That is ONE of the problems,not the Sedins.

This is not 2010-11.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we are to evaluate the line-up properly, the twins needs to be split up and see which one can play effective hockey with just one Sedin on the ice with other forward and trade one of them or both if we are to have some decent return. Benning knows that they are not the same caliber from 2011 but I think he is giving them one last chance this season and in the start of the next season, the power play needs to have a different look, splitting up the twins would be a start to evaluate which player can play with Henrik. If Daniel remains ineffectively without his brother, I would advocate Daniel to be traded in next remaining years in their contract to get some returns. How long must we see them play the ineffective Sedinery magic for so long? I would rather them to use the Sedinery chemistry to create goals rather than the possession hockey without scoring chances. I am starting to think that the game has passed them by already.

The reason why I use Henrik because he has proven that he can play hockey without his brother in the past but Daniel has also proved that he cannot play hockey without his brother so hence I think that Daniel should be traded as soon as the next season to get some returns to replenish the roster. I believe that Henrik is still an effective playmaker for the team. I feel that Daniel is different player than was 3 years ago but Henrik is playing better than Daniel.

The Sedins dictate the terms..not vice versa..I'm positive that any move made against their collective wishes (like one of them being traded) would result in them moving back to Sweden or retiring....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its become pretty clear the main problem is not the coaching but the team itself. The Sedins are half the players they once were, and certainly not 1st liners anymore, Higgins has no business on the second line, and I'm really fed up of seeing him there, Burrows is also half the player has once was, and Bieksa is total crap, As for the new players, Sbisa is garbage and needs to go immediately, I don't know why this guy gets a free pass so often. he should get scratched as often as Kassian. Bonino showed promise in the beginning but has been a total no show since and certainly not worthy of a second line spot and shouldn't remain on the team after this season. Kassian of course still continues to disappoint and its obvious we got the short end of the stick in the Hodgson trade. Benning made some good signings like Vrbata, Miller and Dorsett, but its gonna take quite a lot to get this team back on track.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Garrison can rifle a puck, brah.We're missing that on the powerplay, as predicted.

By the time that little problem is fixed, the Sedins will be done, so it's quite moot.huh?

Garrison rifled the shot into the corners or behind/beside the net most of the time,which is one of the reasons AV refused to use him on the PP.

You go stand in front of the net when a guy is firing 100 MPH+ slappers without accuracy.

That little problem is fixed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LolClarkson, when I said bad contracts, it wasn't about the $$$. The money spent was equitable for the market, at the time. Right now, Burrows is over paid, but that is right now, not when he signed. The remainder remain fairly equitable.

And the 14 mill without the Sedins? Not really sure, but there were two players in mind that I really thought we could have gone after, Kris Letang and Matt Moulson. But we didn't, so we move on.

The team is better with the Sedins. Way better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the sedins right now are at the same age (give or take a few months) markus naslund was at in his last season in vancouver. the difference is, in the summer of 2008 when naslund left, he'd already spent two years on the second line, the sedins having taken over top line duties.

daniel and henrik are being asked to carry a hell of a burden with no relief in sight because there are no top end offensive players in the system at all, let alone at a development point where they're ready to carry the load.

it's because of this that the canucks are almost certainly going to enter a period of losing hockey that the city hasn't seen since the late 90s. they were previously able to transition seemlessly from the west coast express era to the sedin era, but now there's going to be a gap until they get lucky with some high end players.

this is where nonis and gillis failed the team most, by failing to draft and develop anyone between 2004-2010 that would now be at a stage in their development to provide at least secondary scoring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AV was a decent coach and even he gave up on this team. The core is done in terms of going to the Finals again but in terms of production they are far from done, here's why.

Despite how much promise our prospects show, none have been able to contribute consistently.

You can make a case that they haven't been given the opportunity but defensively a lot of them are not fully ready, and if we thrust them when their defence is not up to par it will be like the oilers and their players.

We all want fast change but the chance of that happening at the rate we want is unlikely. We must be patient through this process as painful as it is, it's for the good of the team.

I'm optimistic with what I've seen so far with Horvat, Kenins, Jensen, Corrado and yes even Kassian although his is more long term.

I haven't seen enough from clendenning to say much but he could also be on that list if he can live up to his hype.

2017-2018, I hope our prospects are ready by then.

I'm confident with management as they are looking at the big picture.

So your saying the veterans have been producing consistently?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly I'm not sure what a lot of people thought when the Canucks were icing the team that they were this season.

The writing is on the wall. Benning is trying to keep the team semi-competitive while we retool on the fly. We aren't going to be the best team on the ice some nights...maybe on many nights, in fact.

Basically it is going to be a rough ride for the next couple years while we wait for NTC's to expire and bad contracts to be over. If we make the playoffs this year or the next it will just be icing on the cake. Don't expect this aging core to be a group of world-beaters and you won't be disappointed.

It isn't all doom and gloom though, the group of prospects coming up through the system looks solid (not amazing, but solid) and if one or two of them live up to the hype that the fanbase heaps upon them, things will improve sooner rather than later.

Let's all just hope that is the case....

Next couple of years?? Your kidding yourself if you think we will be competitive in 2 years. Do you see legit first line players coming up? where are they? Try at least 5 years before we see anything that looks like we will be competitive again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get the Hansen hate, in the list of players to blame Hansen is way down on the list.

The biggest part of the core is the Sedins, quite trying to give them a free pass. This team is not worth it with them as first line guys.

Totally Agree, your best players (14 mill worth) have to be able to beat the others teams best players consistently to win in this league. The sedins cannot beat any teams best players except Edm and Buff. Thats it.

They will not get better, but only regress, so until we get better players then they are ( which we don't have in the pipeline) this team will be middle of the road.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...