Matt_T83 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 A lot of noise has been made lately about the lack of production from our forwards. If you ask me, I actually think we have a really good team. So why aren't we scoring? The answer is simple: Apart from Tanev/Edler, our blue line has been nothing short of atrocious this year. How can our forwards play with confidence when the puck goes through our D like swiss cheese on counter-rushes? Our team has become so pre-occupied with defense that our forwards are completely handcuffed most of the time. Put simply, the team cannot perform if they have no confidence in their defensemen behind them. This puts us in a precarious situation: We need to trade forwards for D-men. However, our own D-men are making our forwards look bad. Thus, the "perceived value" of our forwards is low. The sad result is that any trade we make to shore up our defense will likely cost us an arm and a leg. Can this problem be avoided? I don't see any way to get a fair return for any of our forwards not named Sedin or Vrbata, not with the way our defense is playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Just to clarify. Our defensive scoring is bad. But our 5v5 scoring as a group is the worst or among the bottom 5 still in the league since mid November. Also our goals against is 7th in the league as of tonight. So no..no our defense isn't really the issue. Even Sbisa is scoring at a decent rate, he got 2 assists against vancouver the other night. But our forwards cannot buy goals. even the Leafs are thinking damn they're snake bitten and they only scored 16 goals in janurary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_T83 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 My argument is that our forwards are being excessively defensive. If they played as other forwards on other teams do, we would have some of the highest goals against in the league... because our defense is bad. My argument is that our 5v5 scoring is bad because the forwards have to play too conservatively. As a result, our goals against is ARTIFICIALLY LOW. I never disagreed our goals for was bad and our goals against doesn't look so bad. Nothing you said addressed the point that I made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 We haven't played consistently every shift. It's not the D it's not the Fwds it's the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etsen3 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I haven't watched as many games as I'd like to this year, so I can't comment on our exact situation as well. But OP brings up a good point: both offense and defense are 2-way streets, and you can't just separate the game into little boxes of defensemen preventing goals and forwards scoring them. A good team, both on offense and defense, requires all 5 men to contribute. And of course, a good offense can help prevent goals and a good defense can help score them. If the puck is in the other teams zone and your team is generating momentum from goals and scoring chances, then there's no way the opposition can score. And likewise, you can't score goals if you're constantly stuck in your own end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 in 2009/2010 we were 2nd in goals for 11th in least goals allowed Result= Second Round exit to a team that was 5th in goals allowed that year in 2010/2011 we were 1st in goals for 1st in least goals allowed Result= Lose in the finals to a team that clearly had a better defense to us because of injuries to key defensive players in Hamhuis, Kesler, Salo and Malhotra. in 2011/2012 we were 4th in goals for 4th in least goals allowed Result= We lose to a team that was 2nd in least goals allowed and 29th in goals for. That team went on to win the cup. Not saying defense is everything but when our core was elite, it was the only thing that could stop us. And when it is good enough it can stop anything. Even Chicago that beat Boston to win the cup lost to LA last year when they won the cup. They won the cup with 25th in league scoring and 1st in the league goals allowed last year. Defense is much easier to excel in then offense. Lets not forget that in all of our wins against Boston how tightly we played them, and how tightly we had to play Chicago in our first two games to get the wins. It's not everything but it is pretty damn important. Edler-Tanev are a step in the right direction but they still have a ways to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KING ALBERTS Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 We have 3 top 6 forwards on this team. Our forwards are a problem. So is the defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyotasfan Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I see far to many Hamhuis giveaways for the little amount of offence we get from him. would be a good trade piece for this years deadline IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Luka Spiza scores overtime winner against Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Our defence are stellar. Our offensive production from our D men have been a declining issue since 2012. Clendening is PP2 beneficial but in reality the team needs an offensive juggernaut to play with Tanev or Edler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggiesbrecht12 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Trade Hamhuis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggiesbrecht12 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I see far to many Hamhuis giveaways for the little amount of offence we get from him. would be a good trade piece for this years deadline IMO EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj vic Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I see far to many Hamhuis giveaways for the little amount of offence we get from him. would be a good trade piece for this years deadline IMO Couldn't disagree more. He's coming off a serious injury (groin) and definitely isn't 100% but we will need his skill and calming influence once he returns to his true form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLT Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Chicago's what, 10th? 11? Dman gets acquired and slots pretty much into our top 6.. maybe even higher than that. Don't get me wrong i think its a great pickup but it just goes to show where our defense is at compared to top contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLT Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 We have 3 top 6 forwards on this team. Our forwards are a problem. So is the defence. You will get flamed for this but you are correct. Unfortunately the majority on this forum are complete homers (nothing wrong with that) and have their heads in the clouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferlands_Head Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Higgins 2G in last 25GP Bonino 4G in last 35GP Burrows 3G in last 16GP Vey 1G in last 20GP Our supposed 2nd line forwards have been equally atrocious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singing chef Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Just to clarify. Our defensive scoring is bad. But our 5v5 scoring as a group is the worst or among the bottom 5 still in the league since mid November. Also our goals against is 7th in the league as of tonight. So no..no our defense isn't really the issue. Even Sbisa is scoring at a decent rate, he got 2 assists against vancouver the other night. But our forwards cannot buy goals. even the Leafs are thinking damn they're snake bitten and they only scored 16 goals in janurary Therein lies the problem. He needs to get his assists against the opposition. (just making light of your post - I know what you really meant) Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I see far to many Hamhuis giveaways for the little amount of offence we get from him. would be a good trade piece for this years deadline IMO I strongly disagree. Hamhuis is our best passer on the d core IMO. The greatest defenseman are really good at passing, they don't just give it to the first semi open player they see, they consistently look for the best option. Hamhuis does that the most of the D-Core. Just compare him and Edler on their ability to lead the breakout on the powerplay. Hamhuis skates with it and gives it to the best positioned forward, Edler skates to center ice and does a drop pass to Henrik. If you think he has too many giveaways I'd put it primarily on the forwards for barely being open and the fact he handles the puck a lot compared to the other D-Man. Also, his defensive positioning is very good and he uses his stick well. If the forwards would score more, he'd get a lot more 2nd assists. By the way, Hamhuis' PPG total is higher than the entire D Core right now, including Edler who gets top powerplay time. If you want to trade him to get a better draft position, sure, but if you want to make the playoffs you simply don't trade Hamhuis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 This post hurts my head. We lack in more then just 1 area. The only position we really have shored up 100% is goaltending. Aside from that the whole team needs work. Yes we are staying competitive but we are no where near good enough to be successful. If I were to dare say myself. I think our defense has been a lot more steady over the last few weeks. (Esp since Clendening arrived). Maybe I'm crazy. but yeah this post is giving me a headache. lol. Prob just starring at the screen to long. enjoy the convo folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I think our team is good when they put in the effort. Look at this season when they played the "test" games especially against the Cali teams. They have shown they can compete when they are firing on all cylinders. Last nights game was a perfect example. There was hustle, hits ,sticking up for each other and I think I actually seen Daniel take a few shots on the net. The PP looked pretty good too. The team goes through spurts where they take games off and they look autrocious and lose to teams they shouldn't lose to. Last year that spurt lasted for half the season where they looked disinterested in winning hockey games. I think they just quit playing for Torts after all of the drama. The rookies have played well this year and I would like to see some of the core players sit a game or two if they seem disinterested in playing 60 minutes of hockey. I like how Willie started the 2nd line PP first which to me is sending a little message to the top PP line that he is willing to reward hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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