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No Big Bang? New physics model shows universe might have existed forever


key2thecup

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Neither, they arose simultaneously through evolution.

i dont disagree or agree with you there...im no scientist.

the question however was posed as more of an analogical one to the idea of which came first the universe or the creator of the universe.

in other words, who created God if he/she/it was indeed responsible for creating the universe? or did they arise simultaneously like you suggest?

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There are a lot of docs written by people smarter than us whose sole objective was to disprove the Bible and God's existence only to become believer's. Scientists and atheists who travelled to the middle east. I am happy to recommend one of those, but you won't read it for any plethora of reasons, mostly fear.

I asked didnt I ? The only fear here is your own obviously.

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Yep. I was right again.

Lee Strobel's testimony is hilarious. So is this excerpt from The Case for a Creator:

My approach would be to cross-examine authorities in various scientific disciplines about the most current findings in their fields. In selecting these experts, I sought doctorate-level professors who have unquestioned expertise, are able to communicate in accessible language, and who refuse to limit themselves only to the politically correct world of naturalism or materialism. After all, it wouldn't make sense to rule out any hypothesis at the onset. I wanted the freedom to pursue all possibilities.

:lol:

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Relax buddy, Lee Strobel's book The Case for a Creator...

Also, read Richard Lumsden's work or bio.

Dont get so defensive man, I am completely calm lol. I asked politely both times No ? It never ceases to amaze me how people think they know the mood someone is in from text on a screen.

I am open to discussion and willing to hear some rational thoughts or musings.

As for Lee Strobel, sorry you will have to do better than that. He has no explanation when asked as to a creator as first cause.

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That's part of the problem here on earth. We have our physics and believe everything has to stay within that box, but when you step off the planet, physics flies out the window.

Black holes, the sun etc... and those are just a few things we can see on the close. Who knows what else is out there that can challenge our 'laws'.

Care to elaborate ?

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Dont get so defensive man, I am completely calm lol. I asked politely both times No ? It never ceases to amaze me how people think they know the mood someone is in from text on a screen.

I am open to discussion and willing to hear some rational thoughts or musings.

As for Lee Strobel, sorry you will have to do better than that. He has no explanation when asked as to a creator as first cause.

You didnt read his book...

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I did, black holes, the sun and now the learning of an eternal universe.

I know enough about Strobel that he has no explanation when asked as to a creator as first cause.

Also you did not really answer any of my questions:

If an omnipotent being (God) created the entire physical and obviously then spiritual planes..... who, what ,where, when, how and most importantly why was this God created ?

You also stated " when you go off the planet, physics flies out the window."

Not quite sure what you mean by " Black holes and the sun ?" As for an infinite universe that is quite obvious if it is continually expanding and contracting.

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I dont find anything funny in there nor anything that attacks his credibility. He is looking for open discussion. Otherwise it would be like talking to Marshawn Lynch.

Of course you don't, you think Strobel was an atheist. Which reminds me, ever consider buying a bridge? I have a nice one for sale, lightly used, has some issues with icing during winter (though I think latest firmware fixed that).

I'm going to investigate big foot, and to ensure an open discussion, I will only interview scientists who believe big foot exists. I call it the Lee Strobel Method.

Reading your posts, I constantly am forced to wonder, did you get your law degree from a cereal box?

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I know enough about Strobel that he has no explanation when asked as to a creator as first cause.

Also you did not really answer any of my questions:

If an omnipotent being (God) created the entire physical and obviously then spiritual planes..... who, what ,where, when, how and most importantly why was this God created ?

You also stated " when you go off the planet, physics flies out the window."

Not quite sure what you mean by " Black holes and the sun ?" As for an infinite universe that is quite obvious if it is continually expanding and contracting.

Its well beyond my education level to explain why God did what he did. You asked me to provide you a book and i did. You attacked the book without reading it. Thats fine, you arent interested, you just like the battle, no problem.

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Of course you don't, you think Strobel was an atheist. Which reminds me, ever consider buying a bridge? I have a nice one for sale, lightly used, has some issues with icing during winter (though I think latest firmware fixed that).

I'm going to investigate big foot, and to ensure an open discussion, I will only interview scientists who believe big foot exists. I call it the Lee Strobel Method.

Reading your posts, I constantly am forced to wonder, did you get your law degree from a cereal box?

Lee Strobel was an atheist. As was Richard Lumsden and many others. You can discredit them all you like but it doesn't change the facts.

Bridges and Bigfoot, whatever floats your boat i guess.

Chex gluten free

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Lee Strobel was an atheist. As was Richard Lumsden and many others. You can discredit them all you like but it doesn't change the facts.

Bridges and Bigfoot, whatever floats your boat i guess.

Chex gluten free

I gotta commend you for being a good sport.

I obviously didn't read The Case for a Creator, but I'm not dismissing it as nonsense because I disagree with the premise. It's because smarter people than you or I have already read it and debunked it for the creationist garbage that it is.

For a book that claims to be in the shoes of the skeptic, he sure likes to interview Discovery Institute members whose credentials aren't always as relevant as Strobel would have you believe. The book can be reduced to a handful of typical creationist arguments, like the Kalam Cosmological Argument. Did I mention that they're all already long debunked?

If you're indeed a lawyer, shouldn't you be skilled in critical thinking? How can you look at The Case for a Creator and accept it as anything but nonsense?

"I wasn't interested in unsupported conjecture or armchair musings by pipe-puffing theorists. I wanted the hard facts of mathematics, the cold data of cosmology, and only the most reasonable inferences that could be drawn from them."

Instead what you have are a bunch of Discovery Institute philosophers/theologians, hardly the recipe for a fact-based book. This is what Behe (one of the two relevant (if not at all unbiased) specialists interviewed) has to say on his Uni Page:

My ideas about irreducible complexity and intelligent design are entirely my own. They certainly are not in any sense endorsed by either Lehigh University in general or the Department of Biological Sciences in particular. In fact, most of my colleagues in the Department strongly disagree with them.

Well, I'm sold.

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I gotta commend you for being a good sport.

I obviously didn't read The Case for a Creator, but I'm not dismissing it as nonsense because I disagree with the premise. It's because smarter people than you or I have already read it and debunked it for the creationist garbage that it is.

For a book that claims to be in the shoes of the skeptic, he sure likes to interview Discovery Institute members whose credentials aren't always as relevant as Strobel would have you believe. The book can be reduced to a handful of typical creationist arguments, like the Kalam Cosmological Argument. Did I mention that they're all already long debunked?

If you're indeed a lawyer, shouldn't you be skilled in critical thinking? How can you look at The Case for a Creator and accept it as anything but nonsense?

"I wasn't interested in unsupported conjecture or armchair musings by pipe-puffing theorists. I wanted the hard facts of mathematics, the cold data of cosmology, and only the most reasonable inferences that could be drawn from them."

Instead what you have are a bunch of Discovery Institute philosophers/theologians, hardly the recipe for a fact-based book. This is what Behe (one of the two relevant (if not at all unbiased) specialists interviewed) has to say on his Uni Page:

Well, I'm sold.

Try reading the book. Someone else asked for a recommendation and I provided it. You haven't debunked anything. Checkout Richard Lumsden's story, but I am sure you will have a story as well about how 'crazy' he became only after becoming a man of faith. It's all good. Some people prefer to live their lives as 99 year worm food and will believe that is all it is...

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Try reading the book. Someone else asked for a recommendation and I provided it. You haven't debunked anything. Checkout Richard Lumsden's story, but I am sure you will have a story as well about how 'crazy' he became only after becoming a man of faith. It's all good. Some people prefer to live their lives as 99 year worm food and will believe that is all it is...

I haven't debunked anything. This guy has. And this guy. And this guy. And this guy. And this guy.

You're clearly not anymore open to contrary opinion than you think I am.

Edit: The further I read, the more absurd this book seems.

This is what another interviewee, Jonathan Wells, has to say about himself:

At the end of the Washington Monument rally in September, 1976, I was admitted to the second entering class at Unification Theological Seminary. During the next two years, I took a long prayer walk every evening. I asked God what He wanted me to do with my life, and the answer came not only through my prayers, but also through Father’s many talks to us, and through my studies. Father encouraged us to set our sights high and accomplish great things.
…Father’s words, my studies, and my prayers convinced me that I should devote my life to destroying Darwinism, just as many of my fellow Unificationists had already devoted their lives to destroying Marxism. When Father chose me (along with about a dozen other seminary graduates) to enter a Ph.D. program in 1978, I welcomed the opportunity to prepare myself for battle.

This fellow is a member of the cultish Unification Church. Father above refers to the church's founder Rev. Sun Myung Moon. Sounds like a very reliable source to get your information from.

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Its well beyond my education level to explain why God did what he did. You asked me to provide you a book and i did. You attacked the book without reading it. Thats fine, you arent interested, you just like the battle, no problem.

I did not attack anything actually. Why does it have to be a battle there is no need to keep raising your defenses ? IF you are firm in your ideals surely you have reasons to back them up ?

I am very familiar with Storbel's writings and you yet again did not answer one of my questions ?

You have made some very bold claims but are not prepared to answer why or how you have come to these conclusions ?

I am just trying to understand the base for your statements. Give me something to go on at least ?

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