SabreFan1 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I ran this by a mod first before posting it because I use the word "tank" in it and I don't want to get a virtual beat-down by Admin-SN or one of the other mods. --------------------------------- Just a curiosity question. The Canucks are only a few very good players away from contending for the cup again, but as a hypothetical, could any Canadian market besides Toronto and Edmonton survive multiple tanking seasons? With the ridiculous price of tickets in Canada, I would think tanking could nearly kill a Canadian franchise. (Toronto isn't tanking yet of course, they just pretty much s*ck) With a shaky-ish season, the Canucks have fallen from Top 5 in attendance to 16th place, which is unfortunate because I think the Canucks, with a little puck luck, could do well in the playoffs as-is. Edmonton sits at 22nd. Even Toronto has fallen to 9th. The Sabres are sitting in the Top 5 in attendance but our tickets don't cost anywhere near what Canucks/Leafs/Canadiens tickets cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You must first define "fan". Look at Edmonton too. They, like the Leafs, have sucked for years and still do fairly well on ticket sales. True fans will support the team no matter what. Things were very dodgy for the Canucks in the 90's, pre- GM Place, when the Coliseum was 1/3 capacity and the Canadian dollar was crap. The team damn near left as a result. Parts of that don't really answer your question though. I feel like once a hockey hotbed market gets a taste of success coupled with a populace with somewhat disposable income there will be enough support to get through the tough years. It also depends a bit on how your team is losing. Honestly if I were an Edmonton fan I would be so choked at how the team is being built. Speaking for myself, as long as I can still see that the future is bright and the team works hard I don't really care where we place in the standings. Some nights this year the Canucks haven't busted their butts like I would prefer (a la Calgary and their work ethic for example), but the future has enough brightness too it that I can overlook some of the transitional growing pains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Montreal? Winnipeg? They definitely have the rabid fan base that you need for a diehard group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 We've just had about 15 or so great years. All things come to an end. I think the question shouldn't be whether we tolerate losing, but what the team is going to do to win it all. Are they going to build a team smartly and with the patience and aptitude needed to collect the right pieces? Or are they going to take shortcuts, bring in expensive false saviours like Messier and Kessel, kicking off a new dark age. I think the fans here understand what is needed, and they're prepared to be patient. But they better bring in some more big pieces over these drafts coming up, or the odds of another dark age grow larger. Ultimately, we're doing this a bit differently than Buffalo. We signed the Sedins. There's some success to pass down. While Buffalo blew it all up. Should be interesting to see what works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 It's hard to make a straight-up comparison. Essentially you're measuring the strength of an 'addiction'. Try reversing the positions between countries to better appreciate the current scenario. Imagine the US contribute over half the league's players, yet only had a handful of teams. Yet due to exorbitant ticket prices, lots of their revenue was moving north of the border, to support the other 2 dozen teams. Then consider no US team winning it all since the early '90s. How would those half dozen fanbases like this particular shaft? Can't believe Cdn fans have accepted this rigged deck, in general... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Drop the ticket prices and make the team less popular by tanking. Then you'll see the real fans show up every game. When I go to games now people sit next to our seats and all they do is talk to each other the whole game. They don't even look at the freaking ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 You must first define "fan". Look at Edmonton too. They, like the Leafs, have sucked for years and still do fairly well on ticket sales. True fans will support the team no matter what. Things were very dodgy for the Canucks in the 90's, pre- GM Place, when the Coliseum was 1/3 capacity and the Canadian dollar was crap. The team damn near left as a result. Parts of that don't really answer your question though. I feel like once a hockey hotbed market gets a taste of success coupled with a populace with somewhat disposable income there will be enough support to get through the tough years. It also depends a bit on how your team is losing. Honestly if I were an Edmonton fan I would be so choked at how the team is being built. Speaking for myself, as long as I can still see that the future is bright and the team works hard I don't really care where we place in the standings. Some nights this year the Canucks haven't busted their butts like I would prefer (a la Calgary and their work ethic for example), but the future has enough brightness too it that I can overlook some of the transitional growing pains. Fan as in a general sense of the word. Not the corporate stiffs that people have said go to the Canucks games when they are winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayStation Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ticket prices are one thing, the entertainment factor is another. Absolutely dreadful, no effort or heart most of the time, slow snails paced boring game. Not worth paying to go watch the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Drop the ticket prices and make the team less popular by tanking. Then you'll see the real fans show up every game. When I go to games now people sit next to our seats and all they do is talk to each other the whole game. They don't even look at the freaking ice. You might be right but it's also excuses for something that's not unique to Vancouver. Vancouver has a pretty weak fan base. The diehards couldn't fill Rogers Arena, and the regular fans have no energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor.of.Perception Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 buffalo sabre games also gets filled by the GTA, because of the low ticket prices just a short drive away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 buffalo sabre games also gets filled by the GTA, because of the low ticket prices just a short drive away. 15-20% of season tickets are from Southern Ontario with the remaining 80-85% from Western NY, but I'm not asking about the Sabres. I'm asking about Canadian fans and their teams because of the economics and expectations involved with the Canadian clubs. Canada is a whole other story when it comes to their NHL franchises. I'm just curious because I don't know the ins and outs when it comes to the (Canadian) fans and their bond with their NHL clubs. With the exception of Toronto and Montreal of course. Their fans are die hard fans no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknown33429 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Canucks fans don't seem to tolerate it that well, considering how the ticket renewal were down at the start of the season. I, for one, like that as a signal to the team that something is wrong. Better than a complacent fanbase, which leads to complacent ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 toronto is happy they're going to rebuild, edmonton was happy they did it, calgary was happy they did it. not really seeing an issue with it. if it's needed, it's needed lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Canucks fans don't seem to tolerate it that well, considering how the ticket renewal were down at the start of the season. I, for one, like that as a signal to the team that something is wrong. Better than a complacent fanbase, which leads to complacent ownership. Canuck fans have lost their patience after the first 20 years of garbage they had to tolerate while Edmonton and Calgary came 10 years after them and won a combined 6 cups. Not to mention Anaheim, Carolina, Dallas, Tampa Bay have all won cups and came into the league wayy after the canucks did. On top of that you have teams repeating as cup champs winning multiple times within 10 year spans like the Devils, Red Wings, Blackhawks, Oilers, Islanders,Penguins and Kings. All of this beats up the long-term canuck fan. But the good thing is this forum is largely run by the long-term canuck fans, but the reality in the Vancouver market couldn't be a more different story. The large majority of the market consists of bandwagon fans, who don't tolerate losing or lack of entertaining hockey. So when the team sucks even slightly the seats start to empty. Our sellout streak was in the midst of our longest and perhaps the most successful time during canucks history. It's the sad reality but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Toronto is an amazing franchise. Sells out games. Has not gone to Stanley Cup Finals since 1967. They have not been to a finals since expansion to 12 teams. Only 2 Conference Finals since 1967. Most of it is the fault of various owners and ownership groups. They are more interested in money than results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Cue the people who talk about how awful the Canucks fanbase is. I've made this rant before so I'll keep it (fairly) short and sweet. The Canucks have one of the highest values in the league. The team is 45 years old and has endured decades of dreadful hockey. There are so many things to do in BC during the hockey season (compare with say, Edmonton) and the area is a hotbed for hockey at all levels, with a lot of successful junior teams. Winnipeg, Minnesota and Quebec City have lost their teams, and Edmonton and Calgary have been in danger of losing teams before, yet nobody questions the passion of those markets. The Canucks could survive losing seasons, and I'm sick of all the fans who moan and whine about how terrible Canucks fans are, while excluding themselves from the equation. Go pick a new team with "good" fans and leave us unwashed masses in the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken kaniff Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The ticket prices have dropped quite a bit. Its relatively affordable now depending on which teams we are playing against and where the seats are located. If I had enough free time i would be going to AT LEAST a dozen games a season. Unfortunately im in school mon-fri and i work weekends so i can only go to the odd game here or there. I don't care if they are a losing team, if i have time and can afford it im there. However i think a lot of people aren't going to games anymore because the Canucks aren't as 'cool' as they were. When we were winning president trophies and even before, Canucks were talked about a lot and were popular. Now the brand has kind of faded and they aren't as popular. No one is really expecting them to win a cup so they dont go to games or pay attention to them as much. Thats what i think anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lychees Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ticket prices are one thing, the entertainment factor is another. Absolutely dreadful, no effort or heart most of the time, slow snails paced boring game. Not worth paying to go watch the team. This. There seems to be too many lackluster nights to justify spending the $$, much rather watch it at a friends house where at least if the game isn't entertaining we can do something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Cue the people who talk about how awful the Canucks fanbase is. I've made this rant before so I'll keep it (fairly) short and sweet. The Canucks have one of the highest values in the league. The team is 45 years old and has endured decades of dreadful hockey. There are so many things to do in BC during the hockey season (compare with say, Edmonton) and the area is a hotbed for hockey at all levels, with a lot of successful junior teams. Winnipeg, Minnesota and Quebec City have lost their teams, and Edmonton and Calgary have been in danger of losing teams before, yet nobody questions the passion of those markets.The Canucks could survive losing seasons, and I'm sick of all the fans who moan and whine about how terrible Canucks fans are, while excluding themselves from the equation. Go pick a new team with "good" fans and leave us unwashed masses in the dirt. A lot has changed since the first 20 years of our dreadful hockey. Edmonton and Calgary came 10 years after them and won a combined 6 cups. Not to mention Anaheim, Carolina, Dallas, Tampa Bay have all won cups and came into the league wayy after the canucks did. On top of that you have teams repeating as cup champs winning multiple times within 10 year spans like the Devils, Red Wings, Blackhawks, Oilers, Islanders,Penguins and Kings. All of this beats up the long-term canuck fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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