[Report] Brace Yourselves for This. Most BC Students Graduate Universities and Colleges DEBT FREE....

[Warhippy]

Impossible

I just don't buy the numbers especially taken from 2 sentences in one small section of a larger report.

Worst kind of spin.

For the record, I almost came out debt free myself after 3 years post secondary and trade school via working and saving before during and after.

But for most people it's next to impossible and 70% is just not even possible

[FramingDragon]

Or go to a school that pays you to do research

Might be different for you since I remember you mentioning you'd like to go to the US for your PhD, but most research based degrees in Canada will pay you enough to cover tuition. If you TA on top of that, it's enough to live on (and save up if you're careful).

For the record, my parents set up an RESP for me that managed to cover roughly 4 years of my undergrad tuition (I took an extra year to study abroad), I paid the rest off working part-time during school, full-time in the summers and applying to scholarships. I guess I'll consider myself lucky I don't have student debt, I know lots of people who are knee-deep in it.

BTW, as someone who teaches undergraduate labs, I'm always a little tempted to mark a bit harsher on "pre-med" students when they try to grade grub with me. If you're going to be a future doctor, learn the material instead of begging your way into medical school.

Didn't you go straight to PhD? Getting paid to do research is precisely why I don't want to bother with an MSc at all...I've been considering the switch to PhD after one year of Masters too since American tuition rates and application processes give me nightmares

Same here with my parents. It really makes me feel thankful. Have been working myself, but mostly to take care of expenses I don't want them to touch due to the tuition thing. How hard were the scholarships you applied for to snatch? Were they summer studentships?

"Pre med" types get teary when they miss out on clicker marks too. I've seen a few come up to the professor afterwards and ask to do a bonus assignment to make up for TWO missed clicker questions (50 or so usually amounts to 2% in that course). Scum of the earth.

[Down by the River]

That it's possible.

I'm graduating high school this year and have about $7000 that I earned working the past 3 years part time saved already.

If you work while studying, take the bus, and live with your parents there is no reason for you to graduate with debt.

It becomes a lot harder if you're having to pay rent.

Spending 8 years in school should mean you've learned that individual experiences shouldn't be used to make generalizations.

Using one case to show that it is 'possible' is not helpful, just as it would be unhelpful to use one case to show that it is not 'possible'. The issue is far more complex than implying that if it is possible for one person, other people should not be having such troubles.

Good on you though for putting yourself in a good position (I'm not being sarcastic here, but feel that I should clarify because it is the internet after all).

[Haikara]

Someone start a poll and see what kind % we get within CDC.

[Caboose]

Baby Caboose is getting older :') Where have you applied/hoping to get into?

Applied Science - Engineering at all the major BC schools.

I got my SFU acceptance already but I would rather UBC or do my 1st year at the college 15 minutes from my house then transfer.

[ckamo]

Didn't you go straight to PhD? Getting paid to do research is precisely why I don't want to bother with an MSc at all...I've been considering the switch to PhD after one year of Masters too since American tuition rates and application processes give me nightmares

Same here with my parents. It really makes me feel thankful. Have been working myself, but mostly to take care of expenses I don't want them to touch due to the tuition thing. How hard were the scholarships you applied for to snatch? Were they summer studentships?

"Pre med" types get teary when they miss out on clicker marks too. I've seen a few come up to the professor afterwards and ask to do a bonus assignment to make up for TWO missed clicker questions (50 or so usually amounts to 2% in that course). Scum of the earth.

Mostly just entrance scholarships and squeezing what I could out of non-academic things heading out of high school and into university.

I actually haven't switched to a PhD program, at U of T they will fund Masters students for the first 1.5 years, I think it's 2 at UBC.

[etsen3]

Baby Caboose is getting older :') Where have you applied/hoping to get into?

I live with my parents and commute to UBC daily, work part time as well. If you go to a university that isn't Kwantlen (no offence to my Kwantlen bruvs), how is it possible to just be hanging out with the same people since high school? Forget high school, I don't even see the same people year to year as the degree gets more specialized (and with that, peoples' schedules).

I don't know what kind of social life you are prone to (some prefer to stick with tight knit groups), but I've had large dispersed circles that barely overlap since my first day.

This idyllic "live on your own, find yourself, find new friends" thing only makes sense if you go to another community college an area code over.

For what its worth, I would much rather accept parental assistance if they can afford it so that academic excellence pays off in the long run. I don't believe this makes socializing and experiencing "life" any more difficult unless by experience you mean frat parties and pub crawls.

In retrospect it seems like I was referring purely to social life, and of course many people have different experiences. I'm also talking about doing adult things such as paying your bills, buying groceries and eating right, actually fending for yourself, dealing with others, getting a job, cleaning up after yourself, and doing things because they matter, not because your parents told you to. And in terms of meeting people, it's one thing to hang out with different people of your choosing, but it's another to be jammed into a close knit community with them whether you like it or not.

A lot of it depends on the way your parents treat you as well, the area you live in, your school as well. Some people are sheltered and require more freedom to spread their wings, some just need a kick in the ass. Others are perfectly capable of being independent regardless of their circumstances. For me, moving out exposed some flaws and forced me to grow up a lot more quickly than I would have living at home.

[Brick Tamland]

I just don't buy the numbers especially taken from 2 sentences in one small section of a larger report.

Worst kind of spin.

For the record, I almost came out debt free myself after 3 years post secondary and trade school via working and saving before during and after.

But for most people it's next to impossible and 70% is just not even possible

Again, impossible. How stupid do they think people are? Trust fund kids, maybe, but overall, no chance.

Mine was hefty.

[Warhippy]

Again, impossible. How stupid do they think people are? Trust fund kids, maybe, but overall, no chance.

Mine was hefty.

Mine cost in total almost $40k

Had I needed student loans with the interest it would have been closer to $53,000

Without help from bursaries subsidies parents or scholarships come on man. This guy expects us to believe that the average 22-23 year old is gonna come out debt free, not just the average but the MAJORITY

Nonsense

[Warhippy]

Here is someone who actually studied the numbers' opinion on the matter.

============================================================================

A group that represents students in B.C. said Advanced Education Minister Andrew Wilkinson's assertion that 70 per cent of B.C. students graduate from higher education with no debt doesn't match the government's own research.

• No debt for most B.C. post-secondary students says Andrew Wilkinson

"If those numbers seem unbelievable, it's because they're completely untrue," says Steven Beasley with the Canadian Federation of Students B.C. Branch.

"Even the numbers that exist are problematic because they're based on a survey that relies on the voluntary disclosure of debt and it doesn't include graduate students or people who dropped out because they couldn't afford post-secondary."

The 2013 BC Student Outcomes Survey, conducted by B.C. Stats, says that only 51 per cent of post-secondary students leave post-secondary school debt-free.

Wilkinson also said that the average debt for university students who incur it is $20,000. But according to B.C. Stats that's the median amount, not the average.

Meanwhile, according to the survey, 37 per cent of students end up with more than $30,000 of student debt after post-secondary.

Advanced Education Minister Andrew Wilkinson issued a brief statement to the CBC when asked to cite the source of his claim of 70 per cent of students graduating with no debt whatsoever.

It turns out the numbers only take into account students who apply for provincial student loans — not those who take on other forms of debt to finance their education.

"Student loan management records show that more than 70% of all public post-secondary students do not make use of provincial student loans to finance their higher education for undergraduate and diploma studies," the statement said.

Wilkinson also confirmed the numbers do not include graduate students, and his office said he uses median debt to account for extremely high and low results.

[mpt]

What's your point?

That it's possible, if you work hard through it, you can do it too. If you choose not to, that's ok too that's what student loans are for. I just had a goal to do it myself and I succeeded in that goal.

On the other hand one of my colleagues finished the same process with a 105k student loan; that's fine too, it pays for itself in the end.

[mdehaan]

The federal government is writing off another $295 million in uncollected Canada Student Loans from more than 63,000 bad debts, leaving taxpayers on the hook for at least $837 million in write-offs over the last four years alone.

Federal supplementary spending estimates tabled Thursday in the House of Commons for the 2014-15 fiscal year show the government needs an additional $294.6 million to cover tens of thousands of Canada Student Loans to post-secondary students that won’t be collected.

“This funding will be applied to write-off 63,540 debts related to Canada Student Loans,” show the documents.

“Amounts being written off are debts for which reasonable efforts to collect the amounts owed have been unsuccessful. The vast majority of these are debts of borrowers who defaulted in repayment in 2008 or earlier.”

The hundreds of millions of dollars in bad debts for 2014-15 are on top of $231.2 million from 2012-13 supplementary estimates to write off 44,048 debts, and nearly $312 million on the books from the 2011-12 estimates to cover unpaid Canada Student Loans from 98,448 debts dating back more than a decade.

No numbers on student loan write-offs could be located in supplementary spending estimates for the 2013-14 fiscal year.

Combined, the government has written off at least $837 million over the last four years to cover more than 200,000 unpaid Canada Student Loans.

Employment and Social Development (formerly Human Resources and Skills Development) says most of the loans written off by the government were dropped because of the expiry of a limitation period between when the borrower last acknowledged a loan and any legal activity by the Crown to recoup that debt. Once this period has expired, the Crown no longer has the authority to collect the debt.

Approximately 88 per cent of the direct loan write-offs in 2014-15 are for accounts deemed by the Canada Revenue Agency as “uncollectible.”

“The government writes off student debt only after all reasonable efforts to work with borrowers to make payments have been exhausted, and once it is determined that the debt is uncollectible or that further administrative costs of collection are not justifiable in relation to the amount of the debt,” Marie-France Faucher, a spokeswoman for Employment and Social Development Canada, said in an email.

“Reasons for write-off include cases of bankruptcy, severe financial hardship, and compromise settlement offers.”

Approximately 87 per cent of all Canada Student Loans are repaid, she said, with the default rate on federal student loans at an all-time low of 13 per cent.

In an attempt to collect the debts before the government is legally barred from doing so, the Canada Revenue Agency will send monthly statements and collection letters, recoup income tax refunds and refer accounts to the Attorney General of Canada, which could potentially garnish wages or seize assets.

The government’s Repayment Assistance Plan helps borrowers repay loans by assessing their ability to pay based on their income, family size, and debt load. In 2012-13 (latest numbers available), nearly 209,000 Canada Student Loan borrowers received support from the plan.

Borrowers also have an option to negotiate a revision of repayment terms to accommodate their financial situation, such as extending the amortization period to reduce the size of monthly payments.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/federal-government-writes-off-almost-300-million-more-in-student-loans

[Down by the River]

That it's possible, if you work hard through it, you can do it too. If you choose not to, that's ok too that's what student loans are for. I just had a goal to do it myself and I succeeded in that goal.

On the other hand one of my colleagues finished the same process with a 105k student loan; that's fine too, it pays for itself in the end.

I don't think it is that simple. Graduating without loans can depend on a lot more than just having a goal and getting a job (especially a good paying one). I know people who worked hard, didn't really spend above their means, and still ended up with loans. Again, good on you for doing it, but I bet your success wasn't due simply to having a goal and working.

[mpt]

I don't think it is that simple. Graduating without loans can depend on a lot more than just having a goal and getting a job (especially a good paying one). I know people who worked hard, didn't really spend above their means, and still ended up with loans. Again, good on you for doing it, but I bet your success wasn't due simply to having a goal and working.

Sure it was, I worked 20 hours a week at minimum wage during the school year, then in May to September Id work labour at 16 an hour working 50-60 hours a week never during down any possibility of overtime. I'd make 16,000 easily every summer enough to pay for school and my job during the year was to live off of

[Offensive Threat]

Debt aversion is always one of the main reasons cited for not getting a post secondary education. Its a bad thing for society as a whole when young people who can pursue an advanced education choose not to. Of course people with degrees in basket weaving who cry about not being able to get a job with their degree dont help people who are choosing whether to enter university either.

Opposite end of the spectrum my younger brother maxed out his student loans at about 40K over 6 years and then declared bankruptcy right after grad. This was back when you could do that and have your student loans wiped from the books. So the 40K debt disappeared and it took 7 or 8 years for the bad credit to go away. He had a tough time getting credit cards and car loans even with a solid as rock Gov job for a while but he had racked up every kind of debt he could while in college and was over 60K in debt including the student loan when he declared. He had planned it all along. That was back in the early 1990s.

Nowadays bankruptcy does not get rid of student loans.The Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act from the mid 1990s made student loans debt non-dischargeable in a bankruptcy. Good thing because I know a few guys back then who did it to get rid of their loans and had planned to from the start. The number of younger people declaring bankruptcy dropped like a stone after that change and the ones who were in the middle of amassing debt in college and planning to go bankrupt after grad got scewed when the new laws came in. But its hard to feel bad for them.

[CanadianLoonie]

Debt aversion is always one of the main reasons cited for not getting a post secondary education. Its a bad thing for society as a whole when young people who can pursue an advanced education choose not to. Of course people with degrees in basket weaving who cry about not being able to get a job with their degree dont help people who are choosing whether to enter university either.

Opposite end of the spectrum my younger brother maxed out his student loans at about 40K over 6 years and then declared bankruptcy right after grad. This was back when you could do that and have your student loans wiped from the books. So the 40K debt disappeared and it took 7 or 8 years for the bad credit to go away. He had a tough time getting credit cards and car loans even with a solid as rock Gov job for a while but he had racked up every kind of debt he could while in college and was over 60K in debt including the student loan when he declared. He had planned it all along. That was back in the early 1990s.

Nowadays bankruptcy does not get rid of student loans.The Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act from the mid 1990s made student loans debt non-dischargeable in a bankruptcy. Good thing because I know a few guys back then who did it to get rid of their loans and had planned to from the start. The number of younger people declaring bankruptcy dropped like a stone after that change and the ones who were in the middle of amassing debt in college and planning to go bankrupt after grad got scewed when the new laws came in. But its hard to feel bad for them.

How were people not being charged with fraud for doing that?!

[nuckin_futz]

How were people not being charged with fraud for doing that?!

Maybe because no one is dumb enough to actually admit to that?

[CanadianLoonie]

Maybe because no one is dumb enough to actually admit to that?

It just shows me that the decay in ethical behavior was present way back then already...

[drummer4now]

Debt aversion is always one of the main reasons cited for not getting a post secondary education. Its a bad thing for society as a whole when young people who can pursue an advanced education choose not to. Of course people with degrees in basket weaving who cry about not being able to get a job with their degree dont help people who are choosing whether to enter university either.

Opposite end of the spectrum my younger brother maxed out his student loans at about 40K over 6 years and then declared bankruptcy right after grad. This was back when you could do that and have your student loans wiped from the books. So the 40K debt disappeared and it took 7 or 8 years for the bad credit to go away. He had a tough time getting credit cards and car loans even with a solid as rock Gov job for a while but he had racked up every kind of debt he could while in college and was over 60K in debt including the student loan when he declared. He had planned it all along. That was back in the early 1990s.

Nowadays bankruptcy does not get rid of student loans.The Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act from the mid 1990s made student loans debt non-dischargeable in a bankruptcy. Good thing because I know a few guys back then who did it to get rid of their loans and had planned to from the start. The number of younger people declaring bankruptcy dropped like a stone after that change and the ones who were in the middle of amassing debt in college and planning to go bankrupt after grad got scewed when the new laws came in. But its hard to feel bad for them.

I have to admit your generation+beyond and the one's just before mine really screwed over future generations lol.

I could go on how many lax regulations and rules existed all to be expelled with tougher oversight..

[-AJ-]

Had no debt for the first 2 years, but have about 5K now. Easy enough to pay off quickly though once I get a decent job.