messier's_elbow Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 22 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: No, actually the Luongo fiasco was primarily AV's fault. Although the league's retroactive intervention on his contract didn't help with the drama, it was AV's bungling of the team's post-season performance in 11/12 and thinking that Cory Schneider was the golden solution (when in fact, the real problem was a lack of scoring) that created the initial discord. Mike Gillis' passive treatment of this situation only made things worse. He was a few seasons too late in firing AV. (and yes, I contend that the Canucks made it to the SCF in 2011 despite AV, not because of AV) Well I couldn't disagree more. AV is the second best coach the franchise has ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 31 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said: Well I couldn't disagree more. AV is the second best coach the franchise has ever had. He was the best IMO. No disrespect to Pat Quinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 2 hours ago, DeNiro said: He was the best IMO. No disrespect to Pat Quinn. Fair enough. I just loved Quinn, but AV might be a better coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 5 hours ago, messier's_elbow said: A disaster who won 2 presidents trophies and a Stanley cup game 7 final. His drafting sucked outside of Horvat and Hutton but he was a good GM. He could be humbler now that he has a few years to reflect. The Luongo fiasco was Bettmans fault. For the Canuck team that Gillis inherited,he was the right GM,at precisely the right time....Although,by the end,he was not the guy you would look to,to rebuild the team (and based on his poor drafting record,quite rightly so..). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 On 2/24/2015 at 2:46 AM, messier's_elbow said: This guy is hated and pitchforked out of town but he is coming out looking a lot better recently. He didnt hire Torts the owners did. He messed up the situation with the goalies but the new cap penalties screwed him. He got Horvat out of the deal though which might end up being his greatest move of all. Matthias and Markstrom arent looking like bad pieces for Lu either. When he wasnt pissing away picks on guys like Derek Roy (pukebaby) he was making decent draft picks and his only real horrible pick was Mallet. Cassels, Gaunce, Corrado and Jensen all look like future NHL players as well. Jurys still out on Shinkaruk but I have faith. Heck, even if he did pick Tortorella, look who is leading the BJ's to the playoffs. Torts may not have had success here but in Columbus they made a team full of guys that Torts liked, even trading away some good players that didn't play his way, and now they are doing great! I feel as though firing MG was taking two steps back, MG and Torts probably would have changed the team that off season, but instead they were fired. A new GM and coach were hired, both of whom wanted to keep trying with the same core. I still remember Torts being fired almost immediately after telling Linden the core was stale. I bet he is laughing at the Canucks right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where'd Luongo? Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 13 minutes ago, Honky Cat said: For the Canuck team that Gillis inherited,he was the right GM,at precisely the right time....Although,by the end,he was not the guy you would look to,to rebuild the team (and based on his poor drafting record,quite rightly so..). He was great at winning trades. Perhaps we would have traded the core and brought in young talent instead of picks! I disagree with the thinking that he had a poor drafting record. He traded picks to make a push, the picks he had were all late in the draft. JB has had 2 top 7 picks already, while MG never breached 9 and for the most part drafted around 25. MG brought in players that helped the Canucks get to the finals: - Malholtra - Hamhuis - Tanev - Higgins MG drafted: - Hodgson (he was good for awhile) - Rodin (might be good) - Jensen - Labate - Grenier - Corrado - Gaunce - Hutton - Horvat - Shinkaruk - Cassels - Subban MG would have probably done a great job turning this team around. People are just impatient and need someone to blame, that is the only reason he got fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Where'd Luongo? said: He was great at winning trades. Perhaps we would have traded the core and brought in young talent instead of picks! I disagree with the thinking that he had a poor drafting record. He traded picks to make a push, the picks he had were all late in the draft. JB has had 2 top 7 picks already, while MG never breached 9 and for the most part drafted around 25. MG brought in players that helped the Canucks get to the finals: - Malholtra - Hamhuis - Tanev - Higgins MG drafted: - Hodgson (he was good for awhile) - Rodin (might be good) - Jensen - Labate - Grenier - Corrado - Gaunce - Hutton - Horvat - Shinkaruk - Cassels - Subban MG would have probably done a great job turning this team around. People are just impatient and need someone to blame, that is the only reason he got fired. His drafting record sucks...simple as that...For 5 years of drafting,besides Hutton or Horvat..there's not a single impact player there...We also paid an astronomical price to acquire Horvat as well,and as of right now,NJ has the better player. What a gem he drafted in Cody Hodgson,and what an even better assessment of talent when he traded for Zack Kassian... In that same time period we had Gillis..,LA Kings drafted..Voynov,Nolan,,Clifford,Toffoli,Pearson (none of them picked in the 1st round)...How good would they all look right now in a Canucks uniform? Credit goes where its due,and Gillis did put great finishing touches on the cup contending team....but the current mess this team is in can be attributed to his drafting (and Nonis' drafting two years previous) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said: He was great at winning trades. Ballard - bought out Booth - bought out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat James Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Baggins said: Ballard - bought out Booth - bought out Higgins, Lapierre, Ehrhoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 40 minutes ago, The Game said: Higgins, Lapierre, Ehrhoff. Ehrhoff was a good deal despite coming with a cap dump. Higgins and Lappy were ok deals. Although Higgins had to be bought out in the end as well. I certainly wouldn't say MG was "great" at winning deals. He had one deal, only and one, that could fall into the great deal category - Ehrhoff and three that bit us in the butt. Then of course he traded the wrong goalie. Dragged his feet on Kesler so long Kes reduced the teams he would go to down to one. MG was at the point the bad he was doing outweighed the good he had done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Type R Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Baggins said: Ehrhoff was a good deal despite coming with a cap dump. Higgins and Lappy were ok deals. Although Higgins had to be bought out in the end as well. I certainly wouldn't say MG was "great" at winning deals. He had one deal, only and one, that could fall into the great deal category - Ehrhoff and three that bit us in the butt. Then of course he traded the wrong goalie. Dragged his feet on Kesler so long Kes reduced the teams he would go to down to one. MG was at the point the bad he was doing outweighed the good he had done. Benning was tasked with trading Kesler the whiner, not Gillis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Gillis wasnt perfect but if it wasnt for his additions to the team they would have never made the finals. Not only that, he kept coach V. Usually new administrations fire the coach brought in by past regimes. He saw that V was a great coach (as he has also proved in NY) and kept him. No GM is perfect, even the guys that win cups make mistakes. Gillis deserves respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 16 hours ago, Type R said: Benning was tasked with trading Kesler the whiner, not Gillis. Kesler asked for a trade loooong before Benning took over. Lou even made a sarcastic remark to the press near the trade deadline about Keslers request after not being moved himself. Gillis dragged his feet on Kesler just as he dragged his feet with Luongo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 On 12/7/2016 at 4:59 PM, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: No, actually the Luongo fiasco was primarily AV's fault. Although the league's retroactive intervention on his contract didn't help with the drama, it was AV's bungling of the team's post-season performance in 11/12 and thinking that Cory Schneider was the golden solution (when in fact, the real problem was a lack of scoring) that created the initial discord. Mike Gillis' passive treatment of this situation only made things worse. He was a few seasons too late in firing AV. (and yes, I contend that the Canucks made it to the SCF in 2011 despite AV, not because of AV) Despite AV? I know AV isn't as good a coach as Quenneville but he was a good coach. 2 minutes ago, Baggins said: Kesler asked for a trade loooong before Benning took over. Lou even made a sarcastic remark to the press near the trade deadline about Keslers request after not being moved himself. Gillis dragged his feet on Kesler just as he dragged his feet with Luongo. What did Luongo say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 34 minutes ago, khay said: What did Luongo say? It was something along the line of - asking to be traded from here obviously doesn't mean much. I'm still here. Of course a few weeks later Gillis did trade Lou. Rumors Kesler had asked for a trade started during the 2014 Olympics. He had apparently asked to be traded the previous summer. But here's how we could have had Sutter and Gillis said no thanks...... The NHL trade deadline passed, and Ryan Kesler is not a Pittsburgh Penguin. Oh, they tried: According to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, the discussed deal involved center Brandon Sutter, a first- and third-round pick, and the Canucks' choice of any prospect defenseman not named Derrick Pouliot; who, of course, is the guy they wanted. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/ryan-kesler-plays-the-vancouver-trade-demand-waiting-game-165000159.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Baggins said: It was something along the line of - asking to be traded from here obviously doesn't mean much. I'm still here. Of course a few weeks later Gillis did trade Lou. Rumors Kesler had asked for a trade started during the 2014 Olympics. He had apparently asked to be traded the previous summer. But here's how we could have had Sutter and Gillis said no thanks...... The NHL trade deadline passed, and Ryan Kesler is not a Pittsburgh Penguin. Oh, they tried: According to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, the discussed deal involved center Brandon Sutter, a first- and third-round pick, and the Canucks' choice of any prospect defenseman not named Derrick Pouliot; who, of course, is the guy they wanted. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/ryan-kesler-plays-the-vancouver-trade-demand-waiting-game-165000159.html Interesting. I wonder how Luongo knew about Kesler asking for a trade... Hard to believe that the players talk about this kind of stuff to each other. I guess we ended up getting Brandon Sutter, a first (McCann->Gudbranson), and Sbisa (worst case, he is worth at least a 3rd) for Kesler in the end so missing out on that trade wasn't really a big deal in hindsight. Yeah I guess Gillis did drag things out. I think Gillis was a long thinker, like one of those chess players that considers every possibility before making a move. But managing an NHL team is like playing chess with a time clock. Not sure about Kesler but he definitely failed to maximize the value on Luongo-Schneider... well, I guess he got us Horvat so I don't want to blame him too much for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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