Buddhas Hand Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I don't agree. I neither believe or disbelieve in a creator. Nothing I have seen, felt, read or heard has had an impact on me to believe in any religion or creator. I also refuse to accept the words of mankind from thousands of years ago as gospel (teehee, no pun intended) and reject all theology that refuses to acknowledge known facts. Yet I believe there is something past what the eyes can see. I have encountered the supernatural and in nothing in my experience has led me to a god or the like. I call my belief system the Cosmic Qi. It is rooted in a lack of necessity of belief. i cannot know, therefore I do not need to. I try to focus on doing things that make feel better about myself which shapes my moral code. I do good things because it makes me feel good. Unless, of course, you see my belief in the lack of necessity of beliefs as a belief in itself. Atheism does not believe in evolution. People believe in the theory of evolution because there are undeniable facts that lead us to a (yet to be completely proven) conclusion. Evolution and faith need not be mutually exclusive. Contemporary religion should start to reconcile the discrepancies between what is known versus historical text. Father Maxie hinted at this reconciliation when he tore up the Holy Document and spoke about the pitfalls of "...clouding the moral lessons of the Bible with needless ceremony and so many literal translations". Change can be good. I think you might be interested in this mate Professor Brian Cox, God, and the Universe It’s Professor Brian Cox who dunnit for me, in the sitting room, with his BBC series, The Wonders of the Universe. His extraordinary programmes have fundamentally changed my understanding of God. Although I have never been a practicing Christian, I have always had a profound belief in God as an external force. By this I mean an omniscient intelligence that guides and nurtures me. My interpretation of this God-like presence is very personal, but it has given me great comfort in times of despair, and has provided a moral cornerstone for how to live my life. My belief in a benevolent force stems from what I can only describe as a mystical experience. It happened twenty-odd years ago, on, of all places, a train. I had been working through some emotional issues, and was feeling raw and vulnerable, and in need of a break. A friend in Dorset had invited me to stay the weekend, and I was on my way there. I can remember gazing out of the window, looking forward to seeing my friend, when suddenly it felt as if the curtains in my forehead parted, and everything else around me disappeared. I found myself ‘floating’ upwards in a kind of dusty light, which was full of sparkles, and being infused by a feeling of peace and serenity that I had never experienced before. I then became aware of a lion-yellow colour streaming out from my left side. At the same time, I was filled with an understanding that should I dive into this stream of colour, I would be able to confront the many mistakes I had made and learn from them. There was no sense of judgement or blame, but rather a loving, wry knowing. I was just thinking, ‘hmm, that’s seem like an interesting idea,’ when I ‘received’ a message, which told me, ‘Life is only an experience. It’s how you perceive the experience that matters.’ With that, the curtains in my forehead swung closed, and I was back on the train. I suppose the whole thing may not have lasted more than a couple of seconds, but for many months afterwards, I found myself mourning the loss of that ultimate peace and serenity. In fact, even though it’s so many years later, I can still feel the same depth of loss as I write about it. At the time, I interpreted this experience as an encounter with some kind of next-world energy that would greet me when I died. It was a huge comfort, and has stopped me fearing the actual moment of death. As I said to a friend, ‘If that’s what is waiting for me when my time comes, then Yes Please!’ It also made me aware of the importance of doing the best I can with who I am, and to keep developing spiritually and emotionally. I also realised that I had to start taking responsibility for everything I created, because there seemed to be some kind of spiritual reckoning which happens after death. However, since working with Dr Peter Fenwick on a research project into end-of-life experiences, I am now convinced that spiritual reckoning is an on-going life experience, which heightens as we approach death. Psychologists and doctors have recognised that spiritual distress is caused by unresolved shame, anger, blame or resentment, or ruptured relationships which have never been healed. Our end-of-life study suggests that we are innately called to do this before we die, and become increasingly anxious when these issues are not addressed. So it’s been quite an experience to watch Professor Brian Cox explaining how the Universe came into being, and how planet Earth itself is merely a grain of sand within our Milky Way galaxy, and that our Milky Way is one of billions of other galaxies that ebb and flow throughout the cosmos. I realise now that my sense of a bigger external existence comes from the fact, as Professor Cox explains, that we are made up from atoms found through the Universe. The vastness of the Universe actually lives inside us, so no wonder we organically experience a force superior to human life. But, as Professor Cox points out, in the greater scheme of things, human life with alls its failing and foibles, together with this beautiful blue planet we live on, are of very little relevance. We and our Earth merely exist because of the Big Bang that created our known Universe some 14 billion years ago. Hearing him talk, and seeing the spectacular photographs from the Hubble Space Telescope of stars, nebulae and galaxies, I realised that the ‘God’ I believed in doesn’t exist. But, perhaps my mystical vision tapped into an unconscious archetypal energy that has evolved over the 75,000 years since our homo sapiens ancestors first walked out of Africa, and began to try to make sense of life through their creation stories. As Carl Jung, the father of modern psychiatry said, the relationship between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind is the same as a cork (conscious mind) bobbing on a vast ocean (unconscious mind). As I am coming to terms with the loss of my God, I am aware that my faith in some kind of existence beyond human life is still strong. I will never forget that feeling of peace and serenity which welcomed me into that other world, or how important it is to make the very best of life that I am living right now. But it doesn’t really matter what happens to me after I die, because, according to Brian Cox, I – and you – are destined to return to the same stardust that made us in the first place. I rather like the idea. Sue Brayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 i don't really get what you're saying here? christianity was at the heart of the roman empire when Constantine had his 'vision' and took over. that was in, what, 320 or something? ancient rome isn't defined solely the 8th century BC in the thing you're quoting it doesn't seem to me like Gray is denying the influence of other movements, he's saying that Christianity--the religion atheists feel most comfortable beating up on--largely shaped subsequent movements and periods. i don't think i understand what your point is here, so correct me if i'm misunderstanding, but i don't think Gray is saying the 'secular societies of modern times' are ancient rome. he's saying ancient rome, through its adoption of christian belief systems, was basically leading the way to our secular modern period. and I don't really know how anyone can disagree with that? I mean, it seems so obvious that it almost doesn't even need to be said There is so much you can beat them up on. That particular religion has been the cause of so much pain and suffering . I speak from experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Cannot remember who it was but a couple of members of this forum tried telling me that they were absolutey certain there is no god in one of these religion based threads. It's me you are forgetting, and once again you are display your intellectual dishonesty when you reinstate that I claim I am "absolutely certain" God does not exist. *Read this next part slowly* I do not claim with 100% certainty that God does not exist. However, I do claim that I do not need 100% certainty in order to know something (remember, 100% certainty for knowing anything is scientifically impossible, but we would never make the mistake of saying that we do not know anything in this world just because we are not 100% certain). So, I know God does not exist in the same way that I know Zeus does not exist. Simple concept is simple. And just so you know, I will call you out every time I see you post your obtuse interpretation because disingenuous lying deserves to be called out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Where would Buhdism fit into the picture? It is non Theistic as far as I know. Religious people tend to ignore religions that are not their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It's me you are forgetting, and once again you are display your intellectual dishonesty when you reinstate that I claim I am "absolutely certain" God does not exist. *Read this next part slowly* I do not claim with 100% certainty that God does not exist. However, I do claim that I do not need 100% certainty in order to know something (remember, 100% certainty for knowing anything is scientifically impossible, but we would never make the mistake of saying that we do not know anything in this world just because we are not 100% certain). So, I know God does not exist in the same way that I know Zeus does not exist. Simple concept is simple. And just so you know, I will call you out every time I see you post your obtuse interpretation because disingenuous lying deserves to be called out. Still with the same BS and you want to throw insults around. Insults are the arguments employed by those in the wrong. JJR So how certain are you that you know god does not exist ? 95% , 90% ? Dude you really need to chill out , we are just having a discussion. You are hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Still with the same BS and you want to throw insults around. Insults are the arguments employed by those in the wrong. JJR So how certain are you that you know god does not exist ? 95% , 90% ? Dude you really need to chill out , we are just having a discussion. You are hilarious Knowledge is not certainty You made that mistake before and seem to be making it again. Jester was merely pointing it out and asking - perhaps a bit abruptly - that you not put (false) words in his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Still with the same BS and you want to throw insults around. Insults are the arguments employed by those in the wrong. JJR So how certain are you that you know god does not exist ? 95% , 90% ? Dude you really need to chill out , we are just having a discussion. You are hilarious Trust me, I'm completely chill. I'm not even mad, I'm actually impressed. To address your question, I think putting a percentage on how certain I am that God does not exist is quite difficult, but I can explain in more depth my thoughts on things if you would like? You would have to agree, though, to address each individual point I make directly because I am not in the mood for dancing around in circles. Also, I am not trying to insult you when I point out your behaviour throughout this on-going interaction we have been having. I just wish that you would "chill" and realize that I am simply attempting to have an enjoyable philosophical discussion about a very interesting topic. Having this kind of discussion, however, becomes a waste of time when one side refuses to understand the other's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Knowledge is not certainty You made that mistake before and seem to be making it again. Jester was merely pointing it out and asking - perhaps a bit abruptly - that you not put (false) words in his mouth. Where in my post did I say knowledge is certainty ? I did not . No where in my post did I claim that Jester said anything, I stated that " Cannot remember who it was but a couple of members of this forum tried telling me that they were absolutey certain there is no god in one of these religion based threads" Jester assumed I was talking about him and proceeded to insult me and call me a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Where in my post did I say knowledge is certainty ? I did not . No where in my post did I claim that Jester said anything, I stated that " Cannot remember who it was but a couple of members of this forum tried telling me that they were absolutey certain there is no god in one of these religion based threads" Jester assumed I was talking about him and proceeded to insult me and call me a liar. I really thought someone else would pick up on that first.... too funny... "Someone, can't remember who, said something a while ago..." "That was me butt wipe, and I didn't say that!" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Trust me, I'm completely chill. I'm not even mad, I'm actually impressed. To address your question, I think putting a percentage on how certain I am that God does not exist is quite difficult, but I can explain in more depth my thoughts on things if you would like? You would have to agree, though, to address each individual point I make directly because I am not in the mood for dancing around in circles. Also, I am not trying to insult you when I point out your behaviour throughout this on-going interaction we have been having. I just wish that you would "chill" and realize that I am simply attempting to have an enjoyable philosophical discussion about a very interesting topic. Having this kind of discussion, however, becomes a waste of time when one side refuses to understand the other's. Dude you stated "And just so you know, I will call you out every time I see you post your obtuse interpretation because disingenuous lying deserves to be called out" You do not think it is insulting to be called a person who is characterized by a lack of intelligence or sensitivity { obtuse} who is also disingenous liar ? I am always willing to listen to anyone who puts forward their idea's/arguments in a rational, logical manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Where in my post did I say knowledge is certainty ? I did not . No where in my post did I claim that Jester said anything, I stated that " Cannot remember who it was but a couple of members of this forum tried telling me that they were absolutey certain there is no god in one of these religion based threads" Jester assumed I was talking about him and proceeded to insult me and call me a liar. You WERE talking about him. And myself as well I remember it quite clearly. Neither of asserted we were CERTAIN there is no God but that we KNOW there is no God. If you now claim to understand that knowledge isn't certainty, perhaps you'll finally be able to grasp the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 You WERE talking about him. And myself as well I remember it quite clearly. Neither of asserted we were CERTAIN there is no God but that we KNOW there is no God. If you now claim to understand that knowledge isn't certainty, perhaps you'll finally be able to grasp the concept. I was not talking about that conversation JR and no amount of capital letters will make it so. I remember that conversation as well it actually did change how i view the word certain. I also rember it because someone else claimed there are only 200 thing we as a species are certain of. The conversation i was thinking of was one way back when i first joined CDC , members like Vlad and sharpie where invovled in it. And stop with the BS about claiming to know mate , is any one on this board capable of a rational , logical discussion without making it personal and insulting others and talking potshots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FramingDragon Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 This thread is an interesting observation for someone outside the resident atheist/agnost crew on CDC. It seems like it is impossible to talk about anything about the respective views but semantics when religions aren't the punchline and there is no scientific data to point to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALGARY! Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 This thread is an interesting observation for someone outside the resident atheist/agnost crew on CDC. It seems like it is impossible to talk about anything about the respective views but semantics when religions aren't the punchline and there is no scientific data to point to. I was gonna join in yesterday for $&!#s and gigs, but it's best just to take a viewers seat and watch the two sides who figure they each will convert someone to their way of belief over an Internet forum or better yet think theyll prove their view in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 This thread is an interesting observation for someone outside the resident atheist/agnost crew on CDC. It seems like it is impossible to talk about anything about the respective views but semantics when religions aren't the punchline and there is no scientific data to point to. It seems like there are only a handful of people who can maintain a rational, logical conversation without feeling the need to attack , insult and take potshots at others. I wonder if how they "talk" to others on this forum is how they talk to people IRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I don't see any attacks or "potshots". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I don't see any attacks or "potshots". "If you now claim to understand that knowledge isn't certainty, perhaps you'll finally be able to grasp the concept" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 It seems like there are only a handful of people who can maintain a rational, logical conversation without feeling the need to attack , insult and take potshots at others. I wonder if how they "talk" to others on this forum is how they talk to people IRL. People who are in the wrong are often those who cry they are being insulted or attacked. No one is insulting or attacking you. I merely called out your disingenuous behaviour, which you are still displaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 People who are in the wrong are often those who cry they are being insulted or attacked. No one is insulting or attacking you. I merely called out your disingenuous behaviour, which you are still displaying. Are you for real ? You are calling me a liar , that is insulting me . I have told JR and now you that it was not you I was talking about. I have been involved in dozens of religious based discussions on this forum and you automatically assume it was you I was talking about ? If all you are going to do is call me a liar then just piss off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 "If you now claim to understand that knowledge isn't certainty, perhaps you'll finally be able to grasp the concept" I don't see how that's an attack on any way, shape or form. As for the previous thread in question, Jester and I both seem to have a pretty clear recollection of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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