McBackup Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Just now, Blueberries said: It is a question. We have had Nazzy, Bure and Daniel. We have had those franchise wingers but never that franchise defenceman. Considering that our future top 6 looks like: Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen Shinkaruk-McCann-Boeser That's decent enough to get it done if we stack up on D prospects and that if Demko develops into that stud goalie. Number one defenceman win championships. Look at Keith, Doughty, Chara etc. Well first of all, Matthews is a centre. Not a winger. And a genuine 1C is the most difficult player to find. Matthews projects to be exactly that, and once Hank is gone that leaves a gaping hole on our first line which would be extremely difficult to fill. On top of that Chychrun, while he looks like he's going to be a very good player, is not necessarily going to be that number one, norris caliber, franchise defenseman. The way things are currently projected he might not even go top 5. There are already questions if he's even the best Dman in the draft. Defenseman develop along a much different path than forwards that is harder to project. That's why so many stud dmen are found in the later rounds in comparison to forwards. I'd much rather take the 1C with the number 1 pick and stack on defenseman in the later rounds/possibly make a trade for one, than reach for a defenseman with the number 1 pick just because we're lacking in blueline prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Blueberries said: It is a question. We have had Nazzy, Bure and Daniel. We have had those franchise wingers but never that franchise defenceman. Considering that our future top 6 looks like: Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen Shinkaruk-McCann-Boeser That's decent enough to get it done if we stack up on D prospects and that if Demko develops into that stud goalie. Number one defenceman win championships. Look at Keith, Doughty, Chara etc. if you can upgrade on any of those players you do it. Laine, Matthews and Puljujärvi are franchise players. they're big and skilled. if we had an opportunity to draft Matthews you do it. best player in the draft. personally I'd want Laine on my team. Virtanen can play both RW and LW right? Laine is a right winger. so if we get him. I'd do the following: Baer - Horvat - Boeser Virtanen - McCann - Läine maybe you package Shink at this point for a young dman. as much as I'd hate to lose him and wish we could. I can't get away from Läine, his skill set and physical attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_Lu1ngo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, thad said: There's no guarantee with that. I agree Matthews is pretty damn safe but I think it's probably more likely at least one of them caps out at as a 50-60 point guy. If a team like Toronto loses their marbles and made a huge Lindros offer to us for Matthews like Nylander, Reilly, Pitts 1st, Dermott, 2nd.... I take my Swedish first line centre, future #1dman and run haha This would just never happen. Atleast not to that degree. Remember the Lindros trade was in a pre-cap era and a very unique situation. Especially given the fact that Quebec was fighting to save their franchise in that city. You might get a couple pieces but not 5 and likely not Nylander. I could see their 1st (4oa), 2nd (31oa), and Dermott or Kapanen as an offer if we won the 1st pick and they got unlucky to not get a top 3 in the lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, thad said: There's no guarantee with that. I agree Matthews is pretty damn safe but I think it's probably more likely at least one of them caps out at as a 50-60 point guy. If a team like Toronto loses their marbles and made a huge Lindros offer to us for Matthews like Nylander, Reilly, Pitts 1st, Dermott, 2nd.... I take my Swedish first line centre, future #1dman and run haha It's an interesting dilemma you propose. I hope JB actually gets stuck in EXACTLY that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said: This would just never happen. Atleast not to that degree. Remember the Lindros trade was in a pre-cap era and a very unique situation. Especially given the fact that Quebec was fighting to save their franchise in that city. You might get a couple pieces but not 5 and likely not Nylander. I could see their 1st (4oa), 2nd (31oa), and Dermott or Kapanen as an offer if we won the 1st pick and they got unlucky to not get a top 3 in the lottery. Not to mention Lindros refused to play for them, so the Nordiques hands were tied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thad Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said: This would just never happen. Atleast not to that degree. Remember the Lindros trade was in a pre-cap era and a very unique situation. Especially given the fact that Quebec was fighting to save their franchise in that city. You might get a couple pieces but not 5 and likely not Nylander. I could see their 1st (4oa), 2nd (31oa), and Dermott or Kapanen as an offer if we won the 1st pick and they got unlucky to not get a top 3 in the lottery. I get all that but some day someone is going to pony up on the big first overall trade again. I agree it's not likely to happen, especially Toronto but I bet the offers would be better than you suggest. They wouldn't even call JB for Matthews without Nylander on the table. I left their 4th out of my ridiculous proposal to make it somewhat plausible they give up Reilly and Nylander. They still get to draft 1st and 4th this year. Depends how how high they are on Matthews really. If they really really wanted him I could see something like Nylander 4oa, 2nd being their best offer and we turn it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Matthews, Puliarvi, and Laine will most likely 80+ point guys. We need two players of that level. One this draft and one next draft. Isn't it better to get 2 potential 40+ point D men in these drafts since forwards take less time to develop? It's easier to find a 60 point rookie forward than a 40 point rookie Dman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 39 minutes ago, Blueberries said: It is a question. We have had Nazzy, Bure and Daniel. We have had those franchise wingers but never that franchise defenceman. Considering that our future top 6 looks like: Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen Shinkaruk-McCann-Boeser That's decent enough to get it done if we stack up on D prospects and that if Demko develops into that stud goalie. Number one defenceman win championships. Look at Keith, Doughty, Chara etc. Chychrun is not projecting to be that type of D. His stock has fallen although he does project to be a top pairing D, just not franchise level. He's not even a lock to be the top picked defenseman in the draft anymore. Matthews is projecting to be an elite #1 center, Coming from his current coach, he said "I've coaches a 19 year old Kopitar, a 19 year old Jamie Benn, and 20 year old Sedins....And 18 year old Matthews is better than all of them" You don't turn that down for a hopeful D pick. It's not even a question if you have the #1 pick. Picking him becomes a question if you have the #5 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 47 minutes ago, Bobby_Lu1ngo said: There may be a deal with oilers if they have 3rd or 4th pick and we have 5th. If Benning has pulj and tkachuk far ahead of chychrun. Oilers likely are happier to move down if they arent getting matthews or laine even. If say we get another first for hammer and then offered 5th overall (chych) and 20th-30th range first for 3rd or 4th. Theyd have to play it like they are higher on the forwards as well. As it stands though you have to be happy knowing that one of Matthews, Laine, Pulj, Tkachuk, Chychrun, Sergachev, or Joelevi will likely be a canuck in the future. I'm confused? I thought you said if oilers had the 3rd or 4th overall. If they have the 3rd or 4th Matthews and Laine wouldn't be available. So we'd be trading our 5th + our 20-30th to move up 2 spots to picks Pulj or Tkachuk? Why not keep our two picks, and we'd still get one of Tkachuk, Chychrun, Sergachev, or Joulevi and likely a Fabbro, Bean or McAvoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Chychrun is not projecting to be that type of D. His stock has fallen although he does project to be a top pairing D, just not franchise level. He's not even a lock to be the top picked defenseman in the draft anymore. Matthews is projecting to be an elite #1 center, Coming from his current coach, he said "I've coaches a 19 year old Kopitar, a 19 year old Jamie Benn, and 20 year old Sedins....And 18 year old Matthews is better than all of them" You don't turn that down for a hopeful D pick. It's not even a question if you have the #1 pick. Picking him becomes a question if you have the #5 pick. How do you see Mathews compared to the 2 Fins? What separates him from those 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Blueberries said: Ah man if we get the 1st pick do we take Matthews or Chychrun? We have never have had that franchise defenceman and I strongly believe that Chychrun is that. But then again, Ive also believed for a long time that this team is a one future elite 1st liner away from being a true Cup contender in the future. And Matthews is that plus more. Decisions decisions. If we get both I guarantee we will win the Cup in 2017. Guaranteed. This isn't even a debate. Mathews over Chychrun any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberries Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Bitter Melon said: Well first of all, Matthews is a centre. Not a winger. And a genuine 1C is the most difficult player to find. Matthews projects to be exactly that, and once Hank is gone that leaves a gaping hole on our first line which would be extremely difficult to fill. On top of that Chychrun, while he looks like he's going to be a very good player, is not necessarily going to be that number one, norris caliber, franchise defenseman. The way things are currently projected he might not even go top 5. There are already questions if he's even the best Dman in the draft. Defenseman develop along a much different path than forwards that is harder to project. That's why so many stud dmen are found in the later rounds in comparison to forwards. I'd much rather take the 1C with the number 1 pick and stack on defenseman in the later rounds/possibly make a trade for one, than reach for a defenseman with the number 1 pick just because we're lacking in blueline prospects. Pretty sure he plays both C and LW. Matthews at centre makes him even more irrelevant. Having Bo and McCann sets our 1st and 2nd line. Then we also have Cassels for the third. Also combine that with Sutter, even though he can play the wing. So unless we trade McCann, (which wouldn't be enough to get an elite D propsect) there isn't much in drafting Matthews. If we get the 1st, we can trade down to around the 4th pick and really pile up the assets. Nice test for management. Also Chychrun is the real deal. Don't look at his numbers this kid has everything. Ekblad wasn't looking like a franchise D-man and his numbers in his 2nd year are similar to Chychrun (one year gap though), look at him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Blueberries said: Pretty sure he plays both C and LW. Matthews at centre makes him even more irrelevant. Having Bo and McCann sets our 1st and 2nd line. Then we also have Cassels for the third. Also combine that with Sutter, even though he can play the wing. So unless we trade McCann, (which wouldn't be enough to get an elite D propsect) there isn't much in drafting Matthews. If we get the 1st, we can trade down to around the 4th pick and really pile up the assets. Nice test for management. Also Chychrun is the real deal. Don't look at his numbers this kid has everything. Ekblad wasn't looking like a franchise D-man, look at him now. As much as I like Bo and McCann, Matthews is simply a cut above. Maybe two. There's no way of knowing if anyone of them ever solidify themselves as top line guys, let alone top 6, but if I was a betting man my money would be on Matthews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Blueberries said: Pretty sure he plays both C and LW. Matthews at centre makes him even more irrelevant. Having Bo and McCann sets our 1st and 2nd line. Then we also have Cassels for the third. Also combine that with Sutter, even though he can play the wing. So unless we trade McCann, (which wouldn't be enough to get an elite D propsect) there isn't much in drafting Matthews. If we get the 1st, we can trade down to around the 4th pick and really pile up the assets. Nice test for management. Also Chychrun is the real deal. Don't look at his numbers this kid has everything. Ekblad wasn't looking like a franchise D-man and his numbers in his 2nd year are similar to Chychrun (one year gap though), look at him now. If we get Matthews McCann becomes expendable. Use McCann in a deal to acquire a defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Oilers drafted McDavid despite having RNH and Draisaitl, both higher picks than Horvat and McCann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberries Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 33 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Chychrun is not projecting to be that type of D. His stock has fallen although he does project to be a top pairing D, just not franchise level. He's not even a lock to be the top picked defenseman in the draft anymore. Matthews is projecting to be an elite #1 center, Coming from his current coach, he said "I've coaches a 19 year old Kopitar, a 19 year old Jamie Benn, and 20 19 year old Sedins....And 18 year old Matthews is better than all of them" You don't turn that down for a hopeful D pick. It's not even a question if you have the #1 pick. Picking him becomes a question if you have the #5 pick. Fair enough. Marc could just be pumping his guys tires. But, there is a question you have to take into consideration. This is pick means everything you can't screw this up. If JB feels they are strong enough at the centre position then you have to take Chychrun. His potential is insane and physically he is ready. He already is better than everyone on our team and probably on the same level as Edler. If JB feels drafting Matthews is the best for this team then he must draft Matthews. A lot of you are just deciding that we must pick Matthews because Bobby Mac said so. Remember we get to draft whoever we want. The idea of having a top pairing of Chychrun-Hutton should get everyone excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberries Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said: Oilers drafted McDavid despite having RNH and Draisaitl, both higher picks than Horvat and McCann. Yes they are last in the league still. And what is their biggest need still? That franchise defenceman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberries Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: If we get Matthews McCann becomes expendable. Use McCann in a deal to acquire a defenseman. 9 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said: As much as I like Bo and McCann, Matthews is simply a cut above. Maybe two. There's no way of knowing if anyone of them ever solidify themselves as top line guys, let alone top 6, but if I was a betting man my money would be on Matthews. Im not saying that Matthews won't be better than Horvat and McCann. IMO he will be. The question is do you need 3 really good centres and if you need to trade one is. McCann really enough to acquire a defense man that will have a large impact on this team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_Lu1ngo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 35 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I'm confused? I thought you said if oilers had the 3rd or 4th overall. If they have the 3rd or 4th Matthews and Laine wouldn't be available. So we'd be trading our 5th + our 20-30th to move up 2 spots to picks Pulj or Tkachuk? Why not keep our two picks, and we'd still get one of Tkachuk, Chychrun, Sergachev, or Joulevi and likely a Fabbro, Bean or McAvoy. What I was saying is if they end up with 3rd pick and we end up with 5th. If they really rathered chychrun while Benning wanted eith pulj or tkachuk much more than chychrun. Edmonton would be smart to play it that they arent as high on chychrun and would rather one of the forwards to get benning to pay up while still getting their guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Just now, Blueberries said: Fair enough. Marc could just be pumping his guys tires. But, there is a question you have to take into consideration. This is pick means everything you can't screw this up. If JB feels they are strong enough at the centre position then you have to take Chychrun. His potential is insane and physically he is ready. He already is better than everyone on our team and probably on the same level as Edler. If JB feels drafting Matthews is the best for this team then he must draft Matthews. A lot of you are just deciding that we must pick Matthews because Bobby Mac said so. Remember we get to draft whoever we want. The idea of having a top pairing of Chychrun-Hutton should get everyone excited. the huge hype around chychrun has dropped considerably. He's not expected to be a doughy Keith chara. He's not even close the jones or ekblad level. His progression hasn't really increased as much as everyone was hoping it would. Again he's not even a lock to be the top picked D this year. I think your holding on to the pre hype of when a 6'2" 200lbs,14 year old was dominating his competition. He's still a good prospect but not the franchise altering player he was pegged out to be a few years ago. Consider, would the oilers trade mcdavid for Noah even though they already had center depth? Not a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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