McBackup Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 15 minutes ago, Blueberries said: Winning those 5-4 games hasn't worked for many teams. Capitals and penguins are two good examples. Caps now have figured it out. It took a combination of Carlson and Holtby. We still have half of that if we take Matthews. I'm fine with that, if JB can get a Carlson in a later round. Our defense won't improve much with Matthews though. Sure Demko would be a massive improvement on Miller, but I doubt we'll have a better defenseman than Edler. A team lead by Edler can't win. Yes, but what I'm saying is it would be a lot easier to rebuild with a bonafide 1C like Matthews and acquire defenseman in other ways than reach for Chychrun and hope he rises above his projection, while trying to fill other holes elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Oilers with another L. Never gonna catch the Leafs and the Oilers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Seriously Blueberries! The scouts that know a lot more then you or I have the top 3 players as a cut above any other player in the draft. Unfortunately they are all forwards and not defensemen! If we are lucky enough to draft in the top 3. You pick 1) Matthews 2) Laine 3) Puljujarvi in that order. If you have the 4th overall pick there are a number of great players in that next tier that includes Defensemen Chychrun and Sergachyov as well as Tkachuk and Nylander upfront. The top 3 of this draft is set.... it's what happens after that will be interesting on draft day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 20 minutes ago, Jiggs50 said: Oilers with another L. Never gonna catch the Leafs and the Oilers They made it close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 No worries, we have 3 games against the Coilers still. Put Bartkowski and Weber out against McDoobie and there's an easy six points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Blueberries said: Never said that. You're the one bringing up Hanifin. That seems to be the plan. I personally would switch Matthews to LW. I believe he would be more comfortable there and that leaves us with an incredible top 6. Lets pray JB has the ability to find those defenseman. Again my view of Chychrun differs from yours and I still believe he is the franchise defenseman we need. Scouts and analysts say otherwise but they said the same for Ekblad. Edmonton now wouldn't make any deal involving McDavid because he is an elite player already, but if at draft day 2015 they had an offer involving a franchise dman like a Ekblad, you would have to consider. Make the deal? Thats a different question. My point is we have to consider every single option and not just one. Fair enough and that's your opinion but that's like me saying should consider taking Juolevi or Sergachev with the first overall. Even though no scouts, analysts or GM would agree with me but "it's how I feel, I think Juolevi could be a franchise D". And the funny part is some scouts do have Juolevi as the top rated D in the upcoming draft. EDM wouldn't have traded McDavid on draft day either. The current level and potential of McDavid was way over Noah Hanifin's even though Hanifin was the top D prospect. The two arn't comparable and that's why it never was a question. Also you can't really compare Ekblad to chychrun as they aren't even close to the same level in their draft years. Ekblad put up 23 goals and a .91 ppg in his draft year. Chychrun has 9 goals and a .74 ppg. There's a reason why zero midterm mock drafts have Chychrun going 1st overall and why 90% of them having him go outside the top 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_Lu1ngo Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Odd. said: Which is good. Matthews is playing against men right now. Safe to say he's got more experience and the closest player to become NHL ready than everyone else in his draft class. Anyways, Jake Bean looks really nice. If were picking 6th-10th overall, might wanna go ahead and grab a D preferably Juolevi or Sergachev. If were picking 2nd overall, I have to go with Puljujarvi. 3rd overall, Laine. 4th overall, Alex Nylander. 5th overall, Tkachuk. Im just as excited about Laine as Matthews to be honest. Man his shot is just unreal. He just flat out beats goalies with his shot. I see a lot of ovechkin in him. Big powerful skater that has speed and a shot. Drives the net. Despite his size is quick and powerful enough to beat defenders with his skating. Finds open ice well and can one time it from the point on the PP. He could play next year for sure. Matthews is incredibly smart. Extremely high IQ and is very good around the net. Great skater and size. Much like Kopitar in terms of strengths. Id be just as happy winning 2nd pick to be honest. I also agree with those that have Sergachev ahead of Chychrun. Man he can do it all. Id be estatic if we are sitting at 6 or 7 and got sergachev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 27 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Fair enough and that's your opinion but that's like me saying should consider taking Juolevi or Sergachev with the first overall. Even though no scouts, analysts or GM would agree with me but "it's how I feel, I think Juolevi could be a franchise D". And the funny part is some scouts do have Juolevi as the top rated D in the upcoming draft. EDM wouldn't have traded McDavid on draft day either. The current level and potential of McDavid was way over Noah Hanifin's even though Hanifin was the top D prospect. The two arn't comparable and that's why it never was a question. Also you can't really compare Ekblad to chychrun as they aren't even close to the same level in their draft years. Ekblad put up 23 goals and a .91 ppg in his draft year. Chychrun has 9 goals and a .74 ppg. There's a reason why zero midterm mock drafts have Chychrun going 1st overall and why 90% of them having him go outside the top 3. Chychrun averages something like 4 shots a game, thats an elite production level for any defence man. Please dont use PPg as a marker of a players success unless you know the system that the team plays. It was quoted earlier in this thread that Sarnia wants to play a NHL style of game as opposed to the run and gun junior style of game. If i remember correctly Hatcher said that Chychrun is expected to make a strong pass out of the offensive zone and not join or lead the rush every opportunity he gets. They expect him to play defence first as opposed to Barrie where it was very much an "run and gun" style of offence where your best players were allowed to dicated the style of play the team is going to play. This run and gun offence is why everyone is so high on Sergachyov, he joins the rush as a 4th forward quite a lot and thats how a majority of his goals are scored. This allows people to see his skating ability, which is very good and is what makes a lot of people think he is interchangable with Chychrun, because he is has a WOW factor. Sergachyov will obviously not be able to play this style of game as often if he plays in the NHL because if he's caught up ice teams will go the other way on a 2-1 and this is not what NHL coaches like to see out of rookie defenceman. But since people like to throw out numbers I believe Chychrun is a PPG over his last 18 games and is still averaging an extremely high shots per game number. He is just as likely to be drafted 3rd overall as Puljujarvi and it wouldn't surpised me one bit if he is choosen over Puljujarvi. Puljujarvi as all the tools but its a lot harder to find a defenceman like Chychrun (who I would compare to Weber or Hedman) which in some teams eyes will make him more valuable an asset/player. Plus most of the teams in the 3-6 range need defence more than they need a winger. As the old saying goes "Defence wins championship, offence wins games" I still dont get why everyone is really high on Jones IMO he is overrated by a vast majority of people on hockey forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 18 minutes ago, Gstank29 said: Chychrun averages something like 4 shots a game, thats an elite production level for any defence man. Please dont use PPg as a marker of a players success unless you know the system that the team plays. It was quoted earlier in this thread that Sarnia wants to play a NHL style of game as opposed to the run and gun junior style of game. If i remember correctly Hatcher said that Chychrun is expected to make a strong pass out of the offensive zone and not join or lead the rush every opportunity he gets. They expect him to play defence first as opposed to Barrie where it was very much an "run and gun" style of offence where your best players were allowed to dicated the style of play the team is going to play. This run and gun offence is why everyone is so high on Sergachyov, he joins the rush as a 4th forward quite a lot and thats how a majority of his goals are scored. This allows people to see his skating ability, which is very good and is what makes a lot of people think he is interchangable with Chychrun, because he is has a WOW factor. Sergachyov will obviously not be able to play this style of game as often if he plays in the NHL because if he's caught up ice teams will go the other way on a 2-1 and this is not what NHL coaches like to see out of rookie defenceman. But since people like to throw out numbers I believe Chychrun is a PPG over his last 18 games and is still averaging an extremely high shots per game number. He is just as likely to be drafted 3rd overall as Puljujarvi and it wouldn't surpised me one bit if he is choosen over Puljujarvi. Puljujarvi as all the tools but its a lot harder to find a defenceman like Chychrun (who I would compare to Weber or Hedman) which in some teams eyes will make him more valuable an asset/player. Plus most of the teams in the 3-6 range need defence more than they need a winger. As the old saying goes "Defence wins championship, offence wins games" I still dont get why everyone is really high on Jones IMO he is overrated by a vast majority of people on hockey forums. Sarnia Sting 201 goal for in 56 games. Windsor Spit fires 202 goals for in 56 games. Shouldn't run and gun provide more offence??? I mean you just used that as an excuse as to why Sergachev's PPG is so high. Sarnia Sting 166 goal against in 56 games. Windsor Spit fires 166 goals for in 56 games. If they are focusing more on defence shouldn't they have a lower GA??? Again you just used that as an excuse as to why Chychrun's PPG is lower, because he and his team are more focussed on defence. Seems like a load of BS if you ask me. Compare that to a team like the London knight who truly focuses on offensive. 261 goals for in 56 game. I also don't care how many shots per game he is producing, he's only 9 goals. Maybe that's what we should push vbratas value with. "Look he shoots a lot, that's got to be worth a first round pick"...PS he averages 3.1 shots per games. Sergachev averages 2.4 and leads the league in goals by a D-man. And this isn't about taking Chychrun over Puljujarvi, This is about Matthews... are you really going to argue about why if canucks get the 1st overall we should use it on Chychrun over Matthews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 So you're using GA and GF as your indication of what style of game a team plays? that is a horrible counter argument. GA and GF in junior has nothing to do with the style of game a team plays. Watch Sergachyov play a couple of game and then tell me he doesn't play as a 4th forward quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, Gstank29 said: So you're using GA and GF as your indication of what style of game a team plays? that is a horrible counter argument. GA and GF in junior has nothing to do with the style of game a team plays. Watch Sergachyov play a couple of game and then tell me he doesn't play as a 4th forward quite a bit. I've watched sergachev a ton this year and yes he does run around, not just on offence but in his own end as well. But GF Actually has a ton to do with it, The main thing to remember is....The more goals a team scores, the more opportunity for a player to get points on. The style of play a team plays greatly affects the amount of goals a team scores. Compare Dallas to LA, One team plays run and gun and thus leads the league in GF, LA plays defensive and thus is middle of the pack. From it's style of play Dallas gets more goals and Klingberg is a major benefactor of this and is 3rd in the league with points from a Dman. If Windsor was a complete run and gun style of D, wouldn't they have more goals (more goals that sergachev would benefit from) compared to d first team. Again I don't know what your problem is but this isn't an argument about sergachev over Chychrun, I'd would take still have chychrun as the best d in the draft closely followed by Sergachev and then Juolevi. I really don't know what your are getting in a fuss about. Your little rant has nothing to do to what is being discussed. This is about who do you take with the first overall, Matthews or Chychrun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 if Canucks win 1st overall. we draft Matthews. I'd rather we win the 2nd OA. and draft Laine to be honest. he's the type of player I think Benning would love to have. big. strong. powerful. extremely good shot. fast. what's not to like. he could be in the line up right away. about time this franchise wins the lottery. I hope we continue to lose so that our chances of winning one of the top three picks goes higher. as it stands. we have a 6.5% of winning the lottery. we need that to rise. Edmonton and Toronto we won't beat out. but we might for the 3rd overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I've always said, you can't build a winning team with just one guy. You need depth in your lineup in order to be successful. Kopitar had Doughty, Carter, and Brown. Toews had Keith, Kane, Hossa, and Sharp. Bergeron had Chara, Krejci, Lucic, and Marchard. Yzerman had Lidstrom, Holmstrom, Fedorov, and so forth. The common component with those winning teams is a number one defensemen who can log big minutes and play in all situations. And right now, we have absolutely no one in our system that has those traits. If we happen to win the first pick, I wouldn't hesitate to trade down a couple of spot, pick Chychrun (despite what people think, he is the best defensemen in this draft class), and also gain a few more pieces for our rebuild. Let's say Buffalo offered us, Reinhart, their first (4-8), and one of their second for the first overall pick. That would be hard-press for Benning, not to accept that offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandre Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 15 hours ago, Boudrias said: I expect Van to get a 1st Rounder for Hamhuis. With 2 1st rounders I suspect Benning takes the BPA with the first pick and a d-man prospect with the 2nd. Yes, I would say if the Nucks ended up with 2 first rounders or 1 first and 2 seconds, it is likely they go BPA with the higher pick then a Dman. If we pick 6th overall and Chychrun is there though...We could go Chychrun then BPA with the next pick. One thing I am quite sure of, Benning has his eye on Dmen. Half of all his picks with the Canucks have been Dmen. The only undrafted prospect he scouted and signed was a Dman. I expect him to pick at least two this draft. Why not draft lots of Dmen. Nashville seems to and they do alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missioncanucksfan Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I would be happy with Puljajarvi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 18 minutes ago, missioncanucksfan said: I would be happy with Puljajarvi If Puljiijarvi makes you happy, how much happier are you if JB can swing a deal so we get Laine too. How does two Flying Finns sound to you? Burke did it in '99, and it worked out pretty nicely for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 If we pick after seventh I bet we end up taking Max Jones.... Seems like a Benning type of player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said: If we pick after seventh I bet we end up taking Max Jones.... Seems like a Benning type of player Sergachev at seven if he's still on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberries Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 11 hours ago, Sedintwinpowersactivate said: Seriously Blueberries! The scouts that know a lot more then you or I have the top 3 players as a cut above any other player in the draft. Unfortunately they are all forwards and not defensemen! If we are lucky enough to draft in the top 3. You pick 1) Matthews 2) Laine 3) Puljujarvi in that order. If you have the 4th overall pick there are a number of great players in that next tier that includes Defensemen Chychrun and Sergachyov as well as Tkachuk and Nylander upfront. The top 3 of this draft is set.... it's what happens after that will be interesting on draft day! We all have our own views. You're view is that people higher than you, know what is right. My view is that I will trust my gut feeling, which is 95% of the time right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueberries Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 10 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Fair enough and that's your opinion but that's like me saying should consider taking Juolevi or Sergachev with the first overall. Even though no scouts, analysts or GM would agree with me but "it's how I feel, I think Juolevi could be a franchise D". And the funny part is some scouts do have Juolevi as the top rated D in the upcoming draft. EDM wouldn't have traded McDavid on draft day either. The current level and potential of McDavid was way over Noah Hanifin's even though Hanifin was the top D prospect. The two arn't comparable and that's why it never was a question. Also you can't really compare Ekblad to chychrun as they aren't even close to the same level in their draft years. Ekblad put up 23 goals and a .91 ppg in his draft year. Chychrun has 9 goals and a .74 ppg. There's a reason why zero midterm mock drafts have Chychrun going 1st overall and why 90% of them having him go outside the top 3. Again that's not what I am saying. I'm saying a good option is to trade the 1st overall pick to move down. Then pick up Chychrun and pile up on the assets. Scouts aren't always right. Heck their right only 60% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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