Discussion 2016 NHL Entry Draft [June 24-25th || Buffalo, New York]

[Toews]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

I'd say at this point Sbisa/Severson are a fairly lateral move. Severson certainly projects to be better in the future but right now they're fairly on par as ~4th D's IMO. 

Calling Sbisa a #4 is overstating his abilities. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Toews said:

Calling Sbisa a #4 is overstating his abilities. 

It really isn't. he's a solid 4/5. He simply needs to be paired with a more cerebral player who does more of the puck handling.

 

I'd actually be quite happy with him and Tanev as our 2nd pair.

[elvis15]

7 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Nobody's claiming a slam dunk. Trades rarely are. I don't think I'm that far off on the basic framework though.

 

I'd say at this point Sbisa/Severson are a fairly lateral move. Severson certainly projects to be better in the future but right now they're fairly on par as ~4th D's IMO. 

 

For sure they'd have to feel comfortable with Santini/Jacobs being able to start to contribute in ~2 years and IMO, perhaps more importantly, that they're comfortable with Larsson, Miller and Moore as 3 of their top 4 in a few years with Sbisa filling in throughout their bottom 4 in that time frame as guys come on line.

Not a slam dunk as in the trade would go through, but rather that New Jersey would even have a reasonable level of interest.

 

I'd say they were close last year, but Severson should evolve a little more this year (and more than we saw from Sbisa this season) to likely separate them. I just don't know there's enough there from all those points (what they get back vs what they lose, who they have upcoming, and how much they're interested in moving up in the draft) to make this anything more than a quick call to see what it'd cost.

 

I'm not really a Sbisa fan, but he was reasonable and unnoticeable this season. That's an improvement for him but I don't see a lot more ceiling for him to hold a lot of interest (especially at his current rate).

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

Not a slam dunk as in the trade would go through, but rather that New Jersey would even have a reasonable level of interest.

 

I'd say they were close last year, but Severson should evolve a little more this year (and more than we saw from Sbisa this season) to likely separate them. I just don't know there's enough there from all those points (what they get back vs what they lose, who they have upcoming, and how much they're interested in moving up in the draft) to make this anything more than a quick call to see what it'd cost.

 

I'm not really a Sbisa fan, but he was reasonable and unnoticeable this season. That's an improvement for him but I don't see a lot more ceiling for him to hold a lot of interest (especially at his current rate).

The 5th is the main piece obviously, not Sbisa.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

24 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Wait, I'm not sure what you're saying here.  Can you reply again?

cdc is acting weird

[elvis15]

22 minutes ago, J.R. said:

The 5th is the main piece obviously, not Sbisa.

I agree, but how much does that interest them, and is it more than keeping Severson (and the other picks over Sbisa) interests them?

[Zoolander]

My biggest fear on draft day is Benning taking a defender 5th overall.

 

Edmonton can do what they want. Trade the pick for a d-man, draft Tkachuk/Dubois. I don't care.

 

What I care about is missing out on Dubois/Tkachuk because of one reason... 

 

CALGARY.

 

I want to play against Nylander, Juolevi or Chychrun 6+ times a year. 

 

I DO NOT want to play against Dubois/Tkachuk 6+ times a year.

 

It's that simple. I hope Benning thinks the same.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, Toews said:

Calling Sbisa a #4 is overstating his abilities. 

no it's not.  He's a solid #4-5, regardless of your bias

[stawns]

15 minutes ago, Zoolander said:

My biggest fear on draft day is Benning taking a defender 5th overall.

 

Edmonton can do what they want. Trade the pick for a d-man, draft Tkachuk/Dubois. I don't care.

 

What I care about is missing out on Dubois/Tkachuk because of one reason... 

 

CALGARY.

 

I want to play against Nylander, Juolevi or Chychrun 6+ times a year. 

 

I DO NOT want to play against Dubois/Tkachuk 6+ times a year.

 

It's that simple. I hope Benning thinks the same.

because Bennings draft record gives you cause to be worried?

[stawns]

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

It really isn't. he's a solid 4/5. He simply needs to be paired with a more cerebral player who does more of the puck handling.

 

I'd actually be quite happy with him and Tanev as our 2nd pair.

I thought he and Hutton made a good pair as well, but he had to play his off side.  The more realistic #3-4 pairing is Hutton and Tryamkin.  Try can play comfortably on the right side and both have decent offensive instincts.

[Bure_Pavel]

46 minutes ago, stawns said:

because Bennings draft record gives you cause to be worried?

I don't think you read his post, I do agree with zoolander that Edmonton taking a forward when they desperately need defencemen and Calgary having to take Nylander would be the best scenario giving the amount of times we have to play them over the next 15 years. While we walk away with tkachuk or Dubois.

[Smashian Kassian]

7 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

He is our best D but he’s isn’t the one piece that is making us a playoff team verse non-playoff team.  Moving Edler allows us to pursue other options, like resigning Hamhuis or going after a UFA, that can’t happen with Edler on the books.  Moving him also opens up more opportunity for are young players to grow into. Moving Edler and signing a short term stop gap might mean we take a slight downgrade on our D core, but it’s not make or break.

 

Your exactly right, that trading Edler for a draft pick in hopes that the pick turns into a player that reaches Edler’s level seems like a lateral move.  But the thing is, were rebuilding.  We need to find a suitable replacement for Edler so that when the new core (Horvat, Baertschi, Virtanen, Demko, McCann, Hutton) hit their prime, we aren’t left with a massive hole.  Top pairing D, don’t grow on trees and they aren’t cheap /easy to acquire.    

 

So do we make preemptive decision while this team is in the middle of rebuilding.  Or do we hope that a Edler level replacement falls into our laps when our new core is ready to truly compete. 

I'm sorry im not trying to be a jerk, but the bolded makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

We have more than 10 million dollars in cap space, I think even around 15 actually, is 10-15 Million dollars not enough to re-sign Hamhuis & sign another player? 

 

Moving Edler absolutely could be the difference between us being a playoff team or not, him and Hamhuis & Tanev being injured for as long as they were last season probably was the reason we missed the playoffs. 

 

Everything hinges on the defense, last season near the end of the year we saw younger players take steps to become contributing secondary players, our goaltending duo was the valuable part of the team all year, we have the forward group, we have the goaltending, we have some defenseman but if they get hurt again we are screwed, the depth is thin. Taking away one of those guys, in this case Edler, who IMO has played the most reliable/best hockey of his career the last 2 years, makes no sense, doesn't help that at all.

 

You know whats going to help this team develop, having our young players playing a significant role on a playoff team, not another high pick. Trading Edler to free up space makes no sense to me either, who do we have that is ready to take on that role? No one. It would just be throwing them into the fire before they are ready, which makes no sense on any level.

 

This team isn't rebuilding, the goal coming into this season is legitimately the exact same as it has been every season since the turn of the century really, make the playoffs.

 

And even if we were to trade Edler, which despite everything I just said I think we should definitely look at if a good enough deal came along that made sense, I do think we are definitely overpaying in your proposed offer.

 

7 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Benning is that you?

 

Don't pretend you know what they would or wouldn't do anymore than the next guy.

 

Not rebuilding? Lol okay. I guess some Canucks fans are more naive than I realized. The reality is a rebuild is unavoidable at this point. You don't lose the Sedins to retirement and magically replace them with free agent signings. It's gonna take a few years of being really bad. Sure they may try to make some signings to remain somewhat competitive, but that will only do so much.

Like I just said, the goal this year is the same, make the playoffs. And if we can make a step or 2 in the offseason to solidify the defense, (barring injuries of course) I think this team could maybe be in the best shape to do that since the Gillis era. 

[Toews]

6 hours ago, J.R. said:

It really isn't. he's a solid 4/5. He simply needs to be paired with a more cerebral player who does more of the puck handling.

 

I'd actually be quite happy with him and Tanev as our 2nd pair.

In short you are advocating that he play with guys that are much better than him. Tanev does not need to be paired with an anchor just so we can justify the salary he is being paid. I hope guys like Tryamkin or Larsen can some how step up and relegate him permanently to the bottom pairing. 

 

4 hours ago, stawns said:

no it's not.  He's a solid #4-5, regardless of your bias

What bias? I have nothing against Luca Sbisa but I don't want him anywhere near a top 4 role on the Canucks. I have seen enough of him over the past two years.

[Sean Monahan]

Sbisa actually looked like a decent #4 this past year. Not on a cup winning team, but he could be a 4 on a lot of a teams.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

Sbisa actually looked like a decent #4 this past year. Not on a cup winning team, but he could be a 4 on a lot of a teams.

Don't worry. Just Toews being 'not biased' 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

7 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I'm sorry im not trying to be a jerk, but the bolded makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

We have more than 10 million dollars in cap space, I think even around 15 actually, is 10-15 Million dollars not enough to re-sign Hamhuis & sign another player? 

It's about roster space more than cap space.  

Edler, Tanev, Sbisa, Hutton, Tryamkin, Larsen, Pedan, Beiga.  That's 8 D we have signed (*soon to be Larsen) Resign hamhuis and your pushing another player out, one that can be claimed off waivers.  Sign another UFA and your pushing out another person.  Sign a top 4 D you also remove a spot for one of our young players to step up into.  At this point, in our current rebuilding process, I'd rather have Hamhuis mentoring our young D player then Edler.

 

7 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Moving Edler absolutely could be the difference between us being a playoff team or not, him and Hamhuis & Tanev being injured for as long as they were last season probably was the reason we missed the playoffs. 

 

Everything hinges on the defense, last season near the end of the year we saw younger players take steps to become contributing secondary players, our goaltending duo was the valuable part of the team all year, we have the forward group, we have the goaltending, we have some defenseman but if they get hurt again we are screwed, the depth is thin. Taking away one of those guys, in this case Edler, who IMO has played the most reliable/best hockey of his career the last 2 years, makes no sense, doesn't help that at all.

Without moving edler, Hamhuis is gone.  We only have 8 spot and they are already filled, As of right now Pedan is the 7th D man.  Not really a good way to develop a player.  Sign another player he becomes the 8th D man.. Whats more important have Edler slightly improving our D for the next two years or taking the steps needed towards building a strong D core that matched the rest of our upcoming players.  We have a major hole in our projected roster.  We need to plan for that.

 

Ask yourself, In four years whats better for our roster. A 34 year old Edler or a 22-26 year old top 4 D coming into their prime.  

 

 

7 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

You know whats going to help this team develop, having our young players playing a significant role on a playoff team, not another high pick. Trading Edler to free up space makes no sense to me either, who do we have that is ready to take on that role? No one. It would just be throwing them into the fire before they are ready, which makes no sense on any level.

Stop gap. That's why you resign hamhuis or a short term UFA to allow time for the young players to step up into the role without having to push them into it this year.  

 

7 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

This team isn't rebuilding, the goal coming into this season is legitimately the exact same as it has been every season since the turn of the century really, make the playoffs.

Rebuilding doesn't mean your not trying to be competitive and make the playoffs.  Rebuilding doesn't mean your tanking. Rebuilding means your bringing young players up in an environment that suits there development.  That means giving them opportunity and putting them in meaningful situations, not just watching the vets.

 

7 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

And even if we were to trade Edler, which despite everything I just said I think we should definitely look at if a good enough deal came along that made sense, I do think we are definitely overpaying in your proposed offer.

It doesn't have to be for that offer, but moving edler should have the focus on improving a future need, one that goes along with our upcoming core.

 

7 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Like I just said, the goal this year is the same, make the playoffs. And if we can make a step or 2 in the offseason to solidify the defense, (barring injuries of course) I think this team could maybe be in the best shape to do that since the Gillis era. 

Moving edler doesn't change the goal of this team.  We still compete and we still try to make the playoffs and we don't have to sacrifice an opportunity to help our future.

[TheHitman]

What happened to Rodrigo Abols? Does anyone know where he's ranked to go this year? Really hoping the Canucks pick him up after watching the YoungStars pre-season. 

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

It's about roster space more than cap space.  

Edler, Tanev, Sbisa, Hutton, Tryamkin, Larsen, Pedan, Beiga.  That's 8 D we have signed (*soon to be Larsen) Resign hamhuis and your pushing another player out, one that can be claimed off waivers.  Sign another UFA and your pushing out another person.  Sign a top 4 D you also remove a spot for one of our young players to step up into.  At this point, in our current rebuilding process, I'd rather have Hamhuis mentoring our young D player then Edler.

 

Without moving edler, Hamhuis is gone.  We only have 8 spot and they are already filled, As of right now Pedan is the 7th D man.  Not really a good way to develop a player.  Sign another player he becomes the 8th D man.. Whats more important have Edler slightly improving our D for the next two years or taking the steps needed towards building a strong D core that matched the rest of our upcoming players.  We have a major hole in our projected roster.  We need to plan for that.

 

Ask yourself, In four years whats better for our roster. A 34 year old Edler or a 22-26 year old top 4 D coming into their prime.  

 

 

Stop gap. That's why you resign hamhuis or a short term UFA to allow time for the young players to step up into the role without having to push them into it this year.  

 

Rebuilding doesn't mean your not trying to be competitive and make the playoffs.  Rebuilding doesn't mean your tanking. Rebuilding means your bringing young players up in an environment that suits there development.  That means giving them opportunity and putting them in meaningful situations, not just watching the vets.

 

It doesn't have to be for that offer, but moving edler should have the focus on improving a future need, one that goes along with our upcoming core.

 

Moving edler doesn't change the goal of this team.  We still compete and we still try to make the playoffs and we don't have to sacrifice an opportunity to help our future.

You have to weigh the decision of keeping a player, who will be on the downside of his career when the younger core blooms..Or moving him now ,to a contending team...It makes perfect sense to me.

 

Edler is too young to be in a mentorship role (and too old to be in the new core)..and he would just be spinning his wheels here for the next few years,anyway..IMO..Come on Alex,go out and win something.

 

 

[Odd.]

11 minutes ago, TheHitman said:

What happened to Rodrigo Abols? Does anyone know where he's ranked to go this year? Really hoping the Canucks pick him up after watching the YoungStars pre-season. 

Later rounds. I think we can pick him up with our 6th rounder. I want Ty Ronning with our 4th rounder. Remember Abols being one of the ones that stood out in the Youngstars Tourney. Pretty sure he was the best player for us.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

3 hours ago, TheHitman said:

What happened to Rodrigo Abols? Does anyone know where he's ranked to go this year? Really hoping the Canucks pick him up after watching the YoungStars pre-season. 

Central Scouting had him ranked #121 (midterm) among North American Skaters but he fell down the rankings and was not ranked (ie: he finished below #210) in the final rankings.

 

Good chance he won't be drafted and could be signed as a free agent later.

 

He didn't necessarily have a bad season with Portland, but a 20 year old, 6'5" centre needs to do better than 20G 29A 49Pts in 62 GP if he's going to turn heads and get any interest beyond the final rounds (if at all).

 

Also a little concerning that he's still such a beanpole at 20 years of age. Even the pretty recent profiles are listing him at only 185 lbs. Still time for him to put on muscle but I'd have preferred to see him closer to 195-200 lbs at his age (and height). Of course, that's assuming the current weight listings are accurate.

 

I wouldn't be against spending a 7th round pick on Abols if the Canucks still like him. But not really interested in drafting him any higher than that.

 

That all said, he did provide one of the best soccer style assists you'll ever see on a goal this past season: