DeNiro Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, Cowichan Canuck said: Arizona won't pay that much #5 = Domi & #53 Edler = #20 ? = #7 What are we giving them for #7? Damn, all over that though. I'd look at that more like #5 = #7 + #20 Edler = Domi + #53 It's alot for sure. It all depends on how much they value Dubois or Tkachuk, as well as Edler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowichan Canuck Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: I'd look at that more like #5 = #7 + #20 Edler = Domi + #53 It's alot for sure. It all depends on how much they value Dubois or Tkachuk, as well as Edler. I'm fine with the #5=#7 + #20 Arizona isn't fine with Edler for Domi + #53 I wouldn't think. I think Domi is worth close to #5 all by himself. He just put up 52 points as a 20 year old rookie. I'd trade our #5 straight across for him personally and wish I could hibernate until October because the wait would kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, Cowichan Canuck said: I'm fine with the #5=#7 + #20 Arizona isn't fine with Edler for Domi + #53 I wouldn't think. I think Domi is worth close to #5 all by himself. He just put up 52 points as a 20 year old rookie. I'd trade our #5 straight across for him personally and wish I could hibernate until October because the wait would kill me. Arizona is desperate for D. They don't make the playoffs next season unless they acquire at least one top 4 guy. I think Edler would be a perfect partner for OEL as well. That being said, Domi is a high price for a 30 year old D-man. We'd probably have to add a couple young guys on ELC's and Hansen to get them to bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowichan Canuck Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Just now, DeNiro said: Arizona is desperate for D. They don't make the playoffs next season unless they acquire at least one top 4 guy. I think Edler would be a perfect partner for OEL as well. That being said, Domi is a high price for a 30 year old D-man. We'd probably have to add a couple young guys on ELC's to get them to bite. Totally agree. They would also like that #5 even if it isn't for Tkachuk to put a bundle together to offer; Toronto #5 Dubois/Tkachuk #7 Juolevi Dvorak (to pair with Marner) Holy crap they can end up with all of the London Knights possibly. Arizona #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Cowichan Canuck said: Totally agree. They would also like that #5 even if it isn't for Tkachuk to put a bundle together to offer; Toronto #5 Dubois/Tkachuk #7 Juolevi Dvorak (to pair with Marner) Holy crap they can end up with all of the London Knights possibly. Arizona #1 They'd have to give up more than Domi and a 2nd for me to be happy giving up the 5th. If they were to offer Domi, #20, and #53 for #5 then I think that would be a good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowichan Canuck Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, DeNiro said: They'd have to give up more than Domi and a 2nd for me to be happy giving up the 5th. If they were to offer Domi, #20, and #53 for #5 then I think that would be a good deal. He was drafted at #12 overall, is 3 years further in his development and had an extremely strong rookie season with 52 points, high skill, tough as nails, chippy, gritty, fights, hits, creates/good vision, stands up for team mates, played for team canada world chamionship as easily one of the youngest on the team. He's gotta be worth close to the 5th by himself, he's much better than any option at #6 that's for sure. In my opinion Domi plus #53 is more than fair, including another mid first rounder at #20 and that trade won't happen. I think Domi is a future All-Star honestly. I do that #5 by itself all day. I can see your view wanting more, but that #20 is much too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Just now, Cowichan Canuck said: He was drafted at #12 overall, is 3 years further in his development and had an extremely strong rookie season with 52 points, high skill, tough as nails, chippy, gritty, fights, hits, creates/good vision, stands up for team mates, played for team canada world chamionship as easily one of the youngest on the team. He's gotta be worth close to the 5th by himself, he's much better than any option at #6 that's for sure. In my opinion Domi plus #53 is more than fair, including another mid first rounder at #20 and that trade won't happen. I think Domi is a future All-Star honestly. I do that #5 by itself all day. I can see your view wanting more, but that #20 is much too much. I guess we look at him differently. I see him as a great complimentary piece, not a franchise player. He had a great rookie season for sure, but he was also playing on the number 1 powerplay unit with one of the best powerplay QB's in the game. Number 5 represents a potential franchise player or for Arizona a huge bargaining piece to move up and get Matthews. If they're desperate to move up to number 1 they should be overpaying us. Fair value isn't enough for me to move a player of Dubois or Tkachuk's caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 hours ago, missioncanucksfan said: Well if the Arizona package #7 #20 #53 Domi For #5(if Tkachuk is there) Edler Is correct and JB walks away from the draft with Domi+Juolevi+Fabbro+#53 and clearing $5 mil in cap space, then I think most Canucks fans would be quite happy In a dream world maybe. You basically said the same proposal rumoured to be offered for the first overall. and Edler + the 5th isn't going to get you the first overall. Edler and the #5 would get you about the 20th + Domi + 53rd, which i proposed 2 pages earlier. zero change the 7th overall is involved. What would be in it for the yotes to make that move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowichan Canuck Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 17 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I guess we look at him differently. I see him as a great complimentary piece, not a franchise player. He had a great rookie season for sure, but he was also playing on the number 1 powerplay unit with one of the best powerplay QB's in the game. Number 5 represents a potential franchise player or for Arizona a huge bargaining piece to move up and get Matthews. If they're desperate to move up to number 1 they should be overpaying us. Fair value isn't enough for me to move a player of Dubois or Tkachuk's caliber. He only had 3 goals and 12 assists on the PP, so 40 five on five or SH points. Vermette had more PP points than Domi. OEL had 27 pp points. #5 might represent a franchise player, but it also might represent nothing close to Domi. I do not see Tkachuk as a franchise player, and see Dubois as a future LW that has a very slight chance of being a #1C but I think that is a big ? Domi is way way more of a sure thing to me, he also plays LW and C...possibly at the same time but I need to check. Horvat + Domi Homi(es) I wanna see that show. I could live with Horvat on the first with Boeser and Domi eventually , Domi-Horvat-Boeser g-damn sexy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 48 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I'd look at that more like #5 = #7 + #20 Edler = Domi + #53 It's alot for sure. It all depends on how much they value Dubois or Tkachuk, as well as Edler. Domi for Tkachuk is a lateral move. Both LW with a similar styles for the game. Domi might be a bit more flashy. So what reasoning would Yotes have to make that move, it Tkachuk really a franchise player? I don't think so. I can't even say he's an upgrade on Domi. They aren't going to throw in another first round pick to make a lateral move? Domi = 5th + 53rd Edler = 20th Anything else is a pipe dream. if yotes are that desperate for D there are plenty of other options that they can got after without gutting their entire 2016 draft, especially one who's analytics aren't that great. And on top of that Edler wouldn't even be a top pairing guy on their team, he'd be behind OEL. That would be a steep price to pay for a middle pairing guy who's not even going to be around when the rest of their players hit there hit prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 40 minutes ago, DeNiro said: They'd have to give up more than Domi and a 2nd for me to be happy giving up the 5th. If they were to offer Domi, #20, and #53 for #5 then I think that would be a good deal. Agreed, it's gotta be an overpayment. The fifth pick this year would probably more like #2-3 in an average 1st round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowichan Canuck Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, stawns said: Agreed, it's gotta be an overpayment. The fifth pick this year would probably more like #2-3 in an average 1st round. Well that is sure an overpayment then. If they agreed to that i'd probably cry from happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 8 minutes ago, Cowichan Canuck said: He only had 3 goals and 12 assists on the PP, so 40 five on five or SH points. Vermette had more PP points than Domi. OEL had 27 pp points. #5 might represent a franchise player, but it also might represent nothing close to Domi. I do not see Tkachuk as a franchise player, and see Dubois as a future LW that has a very slight chance of being a #1C but I think that is a big ? Domi is way way more of a sure thing to me, he also plays LW and C...possibly at the same time but I need to check. Horvat + Domi Homi(es) I wanna see that show. I could live with Horvat on the first with Boeser and Domi eventually , Domi-Horvat-Boeser g-damn sexy! I agree that Tkachuk likely isn't a franchise player, but I think he's going to be very close, if he's healthy and the team He ends up on develop him properly. That said, I'm not sure that Arizona makes a move with Domi around Edler. Domi's pretty damn good and is already a huge part of that team and Edler doesn't really fall into the Coyotes age group. I think it would be Tanev or Hutton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 16 minutes ago, Cowichan Canuck said: He only had 3 goals and 12 assists on the PP, so 40 five on five or SH points. Vermette had more PP points than Domi. OEL had 27 pp points. #5 might represent a franchise player, but it also might represent nothing close to Domi. I do not see Tkachuk as a franchise player, and see Dubois as a future LW that has a very slight chance of being a #1C but I think that is a big ? Domi is way way more of a sure thing to me, he also plays LW and C...possibly at the same time but I need to check. Horvat + Domi Homi(es) I wanna see that show. I could live with Horvat on the first with Boeser and Domi eventually , Domi-Horvat-Boeser g-damn sexy! That would be a very tough line to play against, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Just now, stawns said: That would be a very tough line to play against, that's for sure. Better than Dubois-Horvat-Boeser? I'm not so sure, which is why I don't see the motivation to move the 5th. Dubois plays with the same edge, is fast and skilled, and is bigger than Domi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowichan Canuck Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, stawns said: I agree that Tkachuk likely isn't a franchise player, but I think he's going to be very close, if he's healthy and the team He ends up on develop him properly. That said, I'm not sure that Arizona makes a move with Domi around Edler. Domi's pretty damn good and is already a huge part of that team and Edler doesn't really fall into the Coyotes age group. I think it would be Tanev or Hutton. Agreed. I think Tkachuck will be a #1 LW, that will do a lot of the dirty work for a #1C, but not a franchise player. I personally wouldn't pay #20 for Edler, but I've grown tired of Edler and maybe he is worth more to an Arizona. I think #5 + Edler is fair for Domi + #20 + #53. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowichan Canuck Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Better than Dubois-Horvat-Boeser? I'm not so sure, which is why I don't see the motivation to move the 5th. Dubois plays with the same edge, is fast and skilled, and is bigger than Domi. Domi has the vision to set up the pure sniper in Boeser. Domi is less risk, Dubois has had one really good season in the Q. Don't get me wrong, I like Dubois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, Cowichan Canuck said: Domi has the vision to set up the pure sniper in Boeser. Domi is less risk, Dubois has had one really good season in the Q. Don't get me wrong, I like Dubois. If Dubois played for the Knights like Domi did I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have had well over 100 points. And he had a very good season for a player that hasn't even turned 18 yet. He's just as good of a playmaker as he is a scorer as evidenced by his 57 assists which were mainly primary assists. That's better than Domi in his draft year. Any pick could be considered risky, I don't see the motivation for us to move it because of that. We will lose out on alot of potential stars if we continue to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 15 minutes ago, Cowichan Canuck said: Domi has the vision to set up the pure sniper in Boeser. Domi is less risk, Dubois has had one really good season in the Q. Don't get me wrong, I like Dubois. And that's the real question isn't it. Did Dubois' stock rise to 4th/5th overall because he was a semi late bloomer who will continue his upward trajectory? Or because of one lucky season at a specific moment in his development? If Dubois is on the board at 5 I'd prefer to take him IF the trade involves a winger coming back. I know we appear to be somewhat set at center, but if Dubois stuns at the position, or turns out to be a great 2nd line center, I'd want that over a first line winger with comparable offense. Difficult to project so many unknowns, but since we've been building from the D out thus far we may as well shore up the middle before focusing on the wing, unless there's a crazy good offensive prospect that just falls into our lap via trade, that is. I don't see Edler waiving for Arizona, so in my mind any deal wouldn't involve him anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 26 minutes ago, DeNiro said: If Dubois played for the Knights like Domi did I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have had well over 100 points. And he had a very good season for a player that hasn't even turned 18 yet. He's just as good of a playmaker as he is a scorer as evidenced by his 57 assists which were mainly primary assists. That's better than Domi in his draft year. Any pick could be considered risky, I don't see the motivation for us to move it because of that. We will lose out on alot of potential stars if we continue to do that. It's not that I disagree with you Because I think Dubois could be very very good. It's just that there isn't much of a book on him the way there is for Tkachuk and it makes me a little nervous. I do, however, have faith in the organization's development model. Like you, I'd rather keep #5 unless it's a home run deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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