drummer4now Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 That includes not being subjugated to any "laws" from other countries - like Sharia - right? We have no control what other countries decide to do so.. but that doesn't mean Canada can't be an example of freedom of expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 That includes not being subjugated to any "laws" from other countries - like Sharia - right? Correct. Using State power to suppress what women can or cannot wear is as dictatorial as using religious power to tell them what they must wear. Let the women choose. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Anything Harper says will be dissected and promoted in a negative light. If he says nothing, "Ah-ha! He's not focusing on women's rights and the abuses happening overseas! He's a pawn of the Saudi's!" His current comments, "Ah-ha! He's some pro-Anglo-Saxon Christian White male against Muslims and women! He's a pawn of Christian Fundamentalists/Zionists/America/whatever!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Anything Harper says will be dissected and promoted in a negative light. If he says nothing, "Ah-ha! He's not focusing on women's rights and the abuses happening overseas! He's a pawn of the Saudi's!" His current comments, "Ah-ha! He's some pro-Anglo-Saxon Christian White male against Muslims and women! He's a pawn of Christian Fundamentalists/Zionists/America/whatever!" No. He initiates reactions whenever he tries to turn this non-issue into an issue. No one cares about what anyone wears until he brings it up. And all the sudden, a few people are like "ahhh.... they can't do this is Canada because Canada is a 'Christian' country." It's his pathetic attempt to win votes from older women by feeding them with an excuse to vote for Harper because all the sudden he cares about women's rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 This is Canada. Last I checked, it's not an Islamic country. Indeed it is secular. Thankfully. The issue I have the divisive nature of his words. There is always a way to get a valid point across and remain conciliatory. As the leader of a country he should be able to do that. In this case, it's an election year, and he is not trying to sway Left votes to the Right, he's pandering to Quebec and their intolerance of Muslims....or any culture other than Francophone for that matter. Don't get it twisted, this is all according to a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 People are slamming Harper over this issue because they hate him and not because they agree with women wearing a Niqab for swearing the citizenship oath. I am certain the majority of people in Canada agree with Harper that women should not cover their faces when swearing the citizen oath. If this is a non-issue like some say here, would they agree to the mutilation of women's genitals because it is "religious freedom"? And what are the boundaries when it comes to religious accommodation? So should principles of Sharia law be acceptable in Canada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFirstLine Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 This is Canada. Last I checked, it's not an Islamic country. And if this was a thread about Christianity you would be crying in every post trying to defend your religion. So no turbans for Sikhs, no headwear for nuns. If you take a right away from one group of people you should take it away from everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 This country has been criticized time and time again that it has no identity. We have one of the best identities in the world, our multi-cultural diversity. This line of argument can only come from someone who fantasizes about being an American, who idolize the "All American' archetype, or someone who doesn't know anything about Canada. People are slamming Harper over this issue because they hate him and not because they agree with women wearing a Niqab for swearing the citizenship oath. I am certain the majority of people in Canada agree with Harper that women should not cover their faces when swearing the citizen oath. If this is a non-issue like some say here, would they agree to the mutilation of women's genitals because it is "religious freedom"? And what are the boundaries when it comes to religious accommodation? So should principles of Sharia law be acceptable in Canada? Freedom of expression in fashion has nothing to do with female mutilation. One would only use that line of argument for argument's sake and not for the advancement of our democracy. If you have actually spoken to Muslim women here in Canada, you will know that all they want is the right to wear what they want, just like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Fully disagree. Canada is based on Britain's and France's ideals/backgrounds. Yes, we have "freedom to express" but we also must conform to society's wishes. No different if I moved to say Saudi Arabia for 2 years - I (and my wife) would have to conform to their society as far as appearance goes... Back in WWII yeah. But ever since the Immigration Act in the 70s we're a country based on multiculturalism, just look at our Charter. Canada has, and always will be, a heterogeneous society. Some of you are suggesting that immigrants should embrace Canada's culture and adapt to it. There's two things wrong with that statement: 1. Canadian culture is one that embraces multiculturalism, so in one sense, Canada actually has no culture, and is made up by a bunch of different ones. 2. The statement suggests that immigrants should leave their own cultures and values at the door and assimilate to western European values. That's not happening. This isn't the American melting pot we're talking about, it's Canada. It's a whole different ball game here in this country. The primary highlight of Canada is it's ability to be a country that has several separate ethnic groups. And yes, Canada is indeed a secular country, but secularism needs to be apparent within the government. Its citizens have no duty to adhere to secularism. As for Harper, this is just another mistake made by him and his government. He's trying way too hard to instil fear amongst Canadians on Islamic radicalization. He should just be focused on containing ISIS and quit the fear mongering crap back at home. I don't even know why the Conservatives are pushing hard on this issue given this year being an election year. They should just be hanging low and milking the crap out of low taxes and their work towards balancing the budget. Not only was this an unethical statement made by Harper, it was also a political miscalculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreanHockeyFan Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Oh and just to put this issue in perspective. What's the difference between this? And this? Oh wait nevermind, I see the difference. You can actually see the guy's chin and forehead in the first photo. Am I right guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 And if this was a thread about Christianity you would be crying in every post trying to defend your religion. So no turbans for Sikhs, no headwear for nuns. If you take a right away from one group of people you should take it away from everyone. You, like others, mis judge me. My religion is fine where it is - in my home and in my church. Likewise, if I visited a mosque I would respect their beliefs and wishes - unlike say some of you anti religious types - right? Quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Back in WWII yeah. But ever since the Immigration Act in the 70s we're a country based on multiculturalism, just look at our Charter. Canada has, and always will be, a heterogeneous society. Some of you are suggesting that immigrants should embrace Canada's culture and adapt to it. There's two things wrong with that statement: 1. Canadian culture is one that embraces multiculturalism, so in one sense, Canada actually has no culture, and is made up by a bunch of different ones. Don't say that man. You are just giving them ammunition. We have a wonderful culture not dictated by any one clique. Having said that, I do appreciate immigrants who make an effort to try to assimilate. I know I have a weird position. But ultimately I'm all about the State not imposing laws to dictate culture. The Canadian should be neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Trudeau is also playing playing politics here by trying to appeal to ethnic voters. Well, its not going to work. Ethnic groups no longer vote on mass for the Liberal Party like 30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 You, like others, mis judge me. My religion is fine where it is - in my home and in my church. Likewise, if I visited a mosque I would respect their beliefs and wishes - unlike say some of you anti religious types - right? Quite right. Wrong. I'm anti-religion but I respect everyone's right to believe what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRypien37 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 We have one of the best identities in the world, our multi-cultural diversity. This line of argument can only come from someone who fantasizes about being an American, who idolize the "All American' archetype, or someone who doesn't know anything about Canada. Funny thing is my parents are immigrants and I came here at an early age. They both worked hard to become fluent in English and grew accustom to all of Canada's traditions. There is a difference between being multicultural and allowing any and all cultures run over your country, not transition, and essentially make it their own. I disagree with almost all of Harper's view points and see him as nothing more then a puppet. HOWEVER, at least he had the balls to stand up and call it like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Most religions are anti-women. Hell, they're anti-people. In this case, many Muslim women are forced to wear giant garbage bags because they're seen as inferior. They're property. They have few to no rights such as showing skin, or hair. Hence why they drape themselves to look like Darth Vader. Your notion should not be accepted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Oh and just to put this issue in perspective. What's the difference between this? And this? Oh wait nevermind, I see the difference. You can actually see the guy's chin and forehead in the first photo. Am I right guys? Being able to see the whole face is important when identifying people. I do remember hearing about how UBC med school has a partnership with the Saudi government, so a portion of the seats are allocated to them. Women who take the exams are allowed to to cover their faces. One time a student dropped something on the ground and then pick it up, exposing her wrist.... a very thick wrist. I think the proctor then realized it was a male dressed up as a female to write the exam. The issue was quickly and quietly resolved and no further action was taken. Covering up should never be allowed for any official reasons. There's the potential for abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Trudeau is also playing playing politics here by trying to appeal to ethnic voters. Well, its not going to work. Ethnic groups no longer vote on mass for the Liberal Party like 30 years ago. There is no such thing as ethnic vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobble Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Why does religion have to have anything to do with Canadian identity? If these women want to wear it, then so be it. I don't see it as making them any less Canadian. Though I understand not having the face covered for security reasons. I could also see having security photos taken without the headdress. Now, if they refused to learn English, Canadian non-religious culture etc. And wanted to make it fit their old countries views, then that would be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Funny thing is my parents are immigrants and I came here at an early age. They both worked hard to become fluent in English and grew accustom to all of Canada's traditions. There is a difference between being multicultural and allowing any and all cultures run over your country, not transition, and essentially make it their own. I disagree with almost all of Harper's view points and see him as nothing more then a puppet. HOWEVER, at least he had the balls to stand up and call it like it is. The only time this country (well, land) was ran over was when the Europeans took it over from the Natives. Did the Europeans adapt to the Natives' culture? No. So why should new immigrants? It is within their right to do so, or not do so. Again, fear mongering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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