Demolition Dangler Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 It is sad that we don't have a guy like that despite the increasing amount of them being available in the draft, but we can't do what Carolina did and reach Fleury's regression is really concerning/is a head scratcher when you look at the whole picture Red Deer went from 5th in their division in his draft year to 3rd and in the playoffs in his draft+1 year most of his teammates did not graduate from junior and improved Yet Fleury went from 46 points to 28, fell from 3rd in team scoring to 9th, and his +/- went from +15 on a non-playoff team to just +4 on a playoff team Imagine if Edler played solid last year and then shat the bed this year - that's what Fleury is essentially doing Fleury will be a reliable defender in the future but he won't be the offensive type. Carolina drafted for their position in need instead of BPA. Luckily we got Tanev without using any draft pick lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 LOL which picture. You should post it next time. Almost every time someone mentions wellwood that photo pops up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 It is sad that we don't have a guy like that despite the increasing amount of them being available in the draft, but we can't do what Carolina did and reach Fleury's regression is really concerning/is a head scratcher when you look at the whole picture Red Deer went from 5th in their division in his draft year to 3rd and in the playoffs in his draft+1 year most of his teammates did not graduate from junior and improved Yet Fleury went from 46 points to 28, fell from 3rd in team scoring to 9th, and his +/- went from +15 on a non-playoff team to just +4 on a playoff team Imagine if Edler played solid last year and then shat the bed this year - that's what Fleury is essentially doing Fleury is going to be a solid D man though. Almost without question a solid top 4 player simply based on that mobility and size plus his amazing IQ. I'd love 2 of him in our bin. He can and will improve on this years totals I think. I've been in the we need D men camp for a while. I still feel as though if benning can parlay assets into 2 or 3 picks in the 1st through 3rd rounds that he'd be perfectly ok in my opinion to blow 3 or 4 of those picks in the first 3 rounds on D men. But that's just me and after seeing the unreal woeful production and break downs from our blue line over the last 2 + seasons...I'd be ok if he pulled that off. Either way and for what it's worth I get what you're saying, I just want that D man this team has never ever really had. I want that ketih Weber Subban Doughty etc. Regardless of how much people hate those guys this team desperately needs one if it ever wants to win a cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 6'2"+ mobile defencemen 2015 - Hanifin, Werenski, Carlo, Larsson 2014 - Ekblad (1st), Fleury (7th), Sanheim (17th) 2013 - Jones (4th), Nurse (7th), Ristolainen (8th), Theodore (26th), Hagg (41st), Heatherington (50th), Bowey (53rd) 2012 - Lindholm (6th), Trouba (9th), Koekkoek (10th), Ceci (15th), Maatta (22nd) 2011 - Hamilton (9th), Beaulieu (17th), Klefbom (19th), Connor Murphy (20th) They are not as rare as they used to be back in the days - you can find a handful in recent drafts except 2014 Fleury was a huge riser before the draft, due to a combination of his offensive breaking out and the lack of big mobile defenders in his draft. He was not a safe top 4 projection, unlike those drafted in his range (Nurse, Ristolainen, Lindholm, Trouba, Hamilton), and he regressed this year, falling to 28 points from last year's 46, and going from 3rd in team scoring to 9th - what was supposed to separate Fleury from the everyday big mobile defenders was his offensive upside, and that seemed to have disappeared this season My assertion was that there are quite a few big defenders that can skate well these days, but that it is rare to find big, mobile defenders that also have high offensive skills. Right now, Fleury is not producing enough offensively to be one of those rare players, and his draft+1 year indicates that he's going to pan out as a bottom 4. Thus, I don't think there is a more apt qualification of Fleury than the "poor man's Shea Theodore" comment I made before - in which case, you will be able to find them later in the draft (low 1st or 2-4th round), in the UFA market or on the trading blockFleury is 6'3 so a lot of those guys don't even count. Regardless, those guys are mostly FIRST round picks. It's hard to find big dudes who can skate and the play the game as well as Fleury imo. He was drafted that high for a reason. Fleury had 1 off year due to who knows what reason. He could still easily develop into a stud and imo he probably will. Remember, people were writing off Hedman after his first nhl year. Funny thing is I wasn't even big on Fleury before I saw your comment. Now I'm defending the dude haha. Hopefully he becomes a stud lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Fleury is 6'3 so a lot of those guys don't even count. Regardless, those guys are mostly FIRST round picks. It's hard to find big dudes who can skate and the play the game as well as Fleury imo. He was drafted that high for a reason. Fleury had 1 off year due to who knows what reason. He could still easily develop into a stud and imo he probably will. Remember, people were writing off Hedman after his first nhl year. Funny thing is I wasn't even big on Fleury before I saw your comment. Now I'm defending the dude haha. Hopefully he becomes a stud lol. Really what's the difference between 6'2" and 6'3" though - a lot of those guys are also bigger than Fleury so I think it averages out. I think it would have been a reach if I included guys that are 6'1"though Yeah for sure. He's only 19 so he can easily bounce back and become a stud, but right now, even Sanheim looks better, and he was taken 10 picks after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Fleury is going to be a solid D man though. Almost without question a solid top 4 player simply based on that mobility and size plus his amazing IQ. I'd love 2 of him in our bin. He can and will improve on this years totals I think. I've been in the we need D men camp for a while. I still feel as though if benning can parlay assets into 2 or 3 picks in the 1st through 3rd rounds that he'd be perfectly ok in my opinion to blow 3 or 4 of those picks in the first 3 rounds on D men. But that's just me and after seeing the unreal woeful production and break downs from our blue line over the last 2 + seasons...I'd be ok if he pulled that off. Either way and for what it's worth I get what you're saying, I just want that D man this team has never ever really had. I want that ketih Weber Subban Doughty etc. Regardless of how much people hate those guys this team desperately needs one if it ever wants to win a cup Ya well it would be pretty hard NOT to improve on this year's 28 points LOL And I think Benning understands the importance of having a stud defenceman so I think we're in good hands, regardless of whether we end up taking a defenceman or a forward in this year's 1st round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoKnows Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Looks like a good player, he's small though. I'd rather draft a nice big D-man tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Crosby Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Could we get Dylan Strome. If we could somehow get a top 7 pick he could fall to us. Right now picks 5-7 belong to Carolina, Columbus, and New Jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 ^ I've see mock drafts with Strome as high as third. In front of Hanafin. And most of the rest with him going 4th... I dunno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 McJesus, Eichel, Hanifin, and Strome are pretty much locked in at top 4, with Provorov or Marner taking that illustrious 5th spot depending on who is picking there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 6'2"+ mobile defencemen 2015 - Hanifin, Werenski, Carlo, Larsson 2014 - Ekblad (1st), Fleury (7th), Sanheim (17th) 2013 - Jones (4th), Nurse (7th), Ristolainen (8th), Theodore (26th), Hagg (41st), Heatherington (50th), Bowey (53rd) 2012 - Lindholm (6th), Trouba (9th), Koekkoek (10th), Ceci (15th), Maatta (22nd) 2011 - Hamilton (9th), Beaulieu (17th), Klefbom (19th), Connor Murphy (20th) They are not as rare as they used to be back in the days - you can find a handful in recent drafts except 2014 Fleury was a huge riser before the draft, due to a combination of his offensive breaking out and the lack of big mobile defenders in his draft. He was not a safe top 4 projection, unlike those drafted in his range (Nurse, Ristolainen, Lindholm, Trouba, Hamilton), and he regressed this year, falling to 28 points from last year's 46, and going from 3rd in team scoring to 9th - what was supposed to separate Fleury from the everyday big mobile defenders was his offensive upside, and that seemed to have disappeared this season My assertion was that there are quite a few big defenders that can skate well these days, but that it is rare to find big, mobile defenders that also have high offensive skills. Right now, Fleury is not producing enough offensively to be one of those rare players, and his draft+1 year indicates that he's going to pan out as a bottom 4. Thus, I don't think there is a more apt qualification of Fleury than the "poor man's Shea Theodore" comment I made before - in which case, you will be able to find them later in the draft (low 1st or 2-4th round), in the UFA market or on the trading block And how many of those guys would we like to have... Its also easily possible to suggest guys stretch on forwards more readily, more often when you bring up Fleury. Maybe he should have been a 15th pick, but he's still a wicked prospect as well! First > Aren't guys like Theodore just as easily billed as BPA? Second > If a dime a dozen, how come we cannot ever seem to spare a dime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 My issue with trusting the combine is players like Nicushkin. He didn't even attempt it and when he did for his hype size and skill set he bombed out. Benett couldn't do a pull up, like at all and people tore him to shreds for it. And Jonny Hockey...well some here would do back room stuff with Treliving to get Jonny Hockey here. People banking so much on children, 17 and 18 year old kids sourcing their future on the ability to pedal a bike with a mask on, do a push up a bench press or even jump; to qualify their careers or draft positions aren't looking at the bigger picture. What pairing do we slot him in with. Good lines include 2 way or offensive center. 2 way or offensive winger and a pure offensive winger. We have some fair sized guys right now that we could slot in a Konecny ona line with a Kassian a Horvat or the like and be happy. One fo our fundamental issues right now is we lug the puck up the ice like no other. We are slow and get burned hard on transition games. See columbus and colorado losses for clarification. If he's there take him. IMO what we need is pure bonafide offensive D men, but we have those in the NCAA and in Subban and Bo-Sang isn't a slouch either regardless of his age. What we lack otherwise are pure offensive rw and lw players. I for one won't be to shocked or surprised at who we draft as I think for our position there's 5 names that will come in to the fore front. But I also don't think i will be shocked if we draft 24th and see benning trade in to the top 10 3 solid years with the 24th overall pick + 1 The combine should mitigate risk. A freak athlete, not in shape, can still have value > see Byfuglien (who looks very good when in shape). BUt its all an issue of where you will take him. Guys go to the Olympics in many sports by the time they are draft age. They certainly know their goal is to be an elite athlete. I think its easy to suggest that much of the mental guess work can also be thrown out if they have the maturity to train like an elite athlete. And if they don't, its a sign... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 And how many of those guys would we like to have... Its also easily possible to suggest guys stretch on forwards more readily, more often when you bring up Fleury. Maybe he should have been a 15th pick, but he's still a wicked prospect as well! First > Aren't guys like Theodore just as easily billed as BPA? Second > If a dime a dozen, how come we cannot ever seem to spare a dime? First > yes, but Fleury wasn't that when CAR picked him up (the point that was being made) Second > already addressed above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Nice little drag+pass at the 0:34 mark. http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/video/index/id/f42be14262b8e61792836390cd985987 My issue with trusting the combine is players like Nicushkin. He didn't even attempt it and when he did for his hype size and skill set he bombed out. Benett couldn't do a pull up, like at all and people tore him to shreds for it. And Jonny Hockey...well some here would do back room stuff with Treliving to get Jonny Hockey here. People banking so much on children, 17 and 18 year old kids sourcing their future on the ability to pedal a bike with a mask on, do a push up a bench press or even jump; to qualify their careers or draft positions aren't looking at the bigger picture. What pairing do we slot him in with. Good lines include 2 way or offensive center. 2 way or offensive winger and a pure offensive winger. We have some fair sized guys right now that we could slot in a Konecny ona line with a Kassian a Horvat or the like and be happy. One fo our fundamental issues right now is we lug the puck up the ice like no other. We are slow and get burned hard on transition games. See columbus and colorado losses for clarification. If he's there take him. IMO what we need is pure bonafide offensive D men, but we have those in the NCAA and in Subban and Bo-Sang isn't a slouch either regardless of his age. What we lack otherwise are pure offensive rw and lw players. I for one won't be to shocked or surprised at who we draft as I think for our position there's 5 names that will come in to the fore front. But I also don't think i will be shocked if we draft 24th and see benning trade in to the top 10 3 solid years with the 24th overall pick + 1 Take your pick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Og Kassian Doe Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 TRAVIS KONECNY. This guy reminds me of Patrick Kane so much... But does he have meat and potatoes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The only way this guy ends up like Kane is if he beats a cabbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It is sad that we don't have a guy like that despite the increasing amount of them being available in the draft, but we can't do what Carolina did and reach Fleury's regression is really concerning/is a head scratcher when you look at the whole picture Red Deer went from 5th in their division in his draft year to 3rd and in the playoffs in his draft+1 year most of his teammates did not graduate from junior and improved Yet Fleury went from 46 points to 28, fell from 3rd in team scoring to 9th, and his +/- went from +15 on a non-playoff team to just +4 on a playoff team Imagine if Edler played solid last year and then shat the bed this year - that's what Fleury is essentially doing Perhaps Fluery is playing against stiffer opposition this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Please nobody under 6 feet that is the cut off unless they have rare elusiveness puck handling speed and tenacity to make it as a short player. The Canucks are either drafting a dman or another center if the d is not there. Have depth on both wings now and in net in the organization. Can never have enough centers and quality dmen who have offensive skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Please nobody under 6 feet that is the cut off unless they have rare elusiveness puck handling speed and tenacity to make it as a short player. The Canucks are either drafting a dman or another center if the d is not there. Have depth on both wings now and in net in the organization. Can never have enough centers and quality dmen who have offensive skills. You've basically described Travis Konecny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demolition Dangler Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 The only way this guy ends up like Kane is if he beats a cabbie. LOL that made me spill my drink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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