Eddie Lack as our number 1.

[supermanbieksa]

If Lack gets plays well and he carries us to the 2nd round I think he's worthy of being our number one.

to put it in another perspective, if a 2nd line center goes down with a injury and the 3rd line center steps up and plays way better than the 2nd line center. Would you "demote" him to the third line once the the previous center returns?

[MadOgre]

It's a question that's worth running up the flag pole OP. Do they still need Miller since Lack is looking so good?

The answer is yes. Why?:

1. Goalie is the most important position. I'm quoting JB.
2. If Miller is traded, then Markstrom would be the back up. He looks nervous when he plays and he has not shown that he can win games at the NHL level. If the Canucks want to make the playoffs, should he be gifted 20 starts?
3. Mentoring (see RK41 above)

I really think that Benning is going to be conservative with the goaltending. Miller will remain #1 and Lack will gradually get increased responsibility. Lack is certainly earning that opportunity right now. By the time Miller's contract is up in 2 years, Lack will be getting the equivalent of 75% of the work.

I agree with what you say except I think Millers last year here will be next year.

I do how ever think that Lack is ready now and that its totally feasible to move Markstorm into the back up role for next year and that it would workout just fine.

[hockeyking]

If Lack gets plays well and he carries us to the 2nd round I think he's worthy of being our number one.

to put it in another perspective, if a 2nd line center goes down with a injury and the 3rd line center steps up and plays way better than the 2nd line center. Would you "demote" him to the third line once the the previous center returns?

Answer is usually no you just distribute the time more evenly between them assuming you can keep them both under the cap.

[Off_The_Schneid!]

It will all come down to the conversation between Benning and Markstrom

If he's willing to play another season in utica work with melanson and be an injury call up than the goalie situation would most likely stay the same

If he wants an nhl spot or nothing ( which I don't believe he will because he's still young and the comets are a good team) then we trade lack or miller

Another thing that could change everything is if we sign o Connor

Lots of variables that still need to be sorted out

[Maniwaki Canuck]

^^This is the one thing that won't happen. Even if Markstrom agreed to another year in the minors, which I doubt he would, he'd be claimed on waivers going down next fall.

[Nino]

Hmm...

Since I don't care that much about individual stats like GAA and SV%, since these stats when comparing goalies within the same team, isn't always true, I actually care more for how the team performs when they are in net.

Miller's win% is 64% and Lack's 50%. Lack had a bad start so if only counting his starts after the Miller injury he's been pacing 60%. (Really good, but not as good.)

Facts: He's not yet as good for the team as Miller has been. And if we disregard Lack's first 15 games (don't really know why we should!?) then we could disregard Miller's worst games as well!?

Miller´s percentage is 64 and Lack's 50.

I'd rather win, period! Then see some good goalie stats (GAA/SV%) and lose... but hey, that's just me!

I like em both but I think a lot of the members here should get their facts straight before trading Miller away.

I think Lack will be our new no 1 keeper within a year, but during that year he would most greatly benefit from Miller as a mentor.

Do not trade Miller away because Lack's been posting good win% in 15 games!!

A reminder: Without Miller from the start of this season, we would have relied on Lack's win% before the injury, which were sub 40%. Without Miller we would not even be in this playoff race!

This kinda spells it out....

I think lack has played great recently and we should even consider playing him in the playoffs if miller can't come back and get some games in before the playoffs but miller has been great for us this year and he's still our number one.

Who knows what's in store for next year, all we know is that we've got three goalies that are not going to be playing on the farm and only two spots. Someone is sure to be moved, if it's marks then we will see another year of lack as a backup.

[aGENT]

Hmm...

Since I don't care that much about individual stats like GAA and SV%, since these stats when comparing goalies within the same team, isn't always true, I actually care more for how the team performs when they are in net.

Miller's win% is 64% and Lack's 50%. Lack had a bad start so if only counting his starts after the Miller injury he's been pacing 60%. (Really good, but not as good.)

Facts: He's not yet as good for the team as Miller has been. And if we disregard Lack's first 15 games (don't really know why we should!?) then we could disregard Miller's worst games as well!?

Miller´s percentage is 64 and Lack's 50.

I'd rather win, period! Then see some good goalie stats (GAA/SV%) and lose... but hey, that's just me!

I like em both but I think a lot of the members here should get their facts straight before trading Miller away.

I think Lack will be our new no 1 keeper within a year, but during that year he would most greatly benefit from Miller as a mentor.

Do not trade Miller away because Lack's been posting good win% in 15 games!!

A reminder: Without Miller from the start of this season, we would have relied on Lack's win% before the injury, which were sub 40%. Without Miller we would not even be in this playoff race!

This is so backwards it hurts

You're utterly ignoring the context of those wins and losses. Like that most of Lack's early season games were the second game of back to backs with a tired team, how much scoring support he got, who was injured, coming in "cold" after not playing for 2-3 weeks, etc, etc.

Winning is a team stat. SV% and GAA are goalie stats. Lack is the better goalie period. And now that he's getting regular games, scoring support etc, the team is posting FAR improved winning %. Hmm I wonder why...?

[Nino]

This is so backwards it hurts

You're utterly ignoring the context of those wins and losses. Like that most of Lack's early season games were the second game of back to backs with a tired team, how much scoring support he got, who was injured, coming in "cold" after not playing for 2-3 weeks, etc, etc.

Winning is a team stat. SV% and GAA are goalie stats. Lack is the better goalie period. And now that he's getting regular games, scoring support etc, the team is posting FAR improved winning %. Hmm I wonder why...?

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't miller get the tougher matchup in the back to backs your talking about? Elaborate your point please because your just making up stuff as of now.

[hockeyking]

This is so backwards it hurts

You're utterly ignoring the context of those wins and losses. Like that most of Lack's early season games were the second game of back to backs with a tired team, how much scoring support he got, who was injured, coming in "cold" after not playing for 2-3 weeks, etc, etc.

Winning is a team stat. SV% and GAA are goalie stats. Lack is the better goalie period. And now that he's getting regular games, scoring supportetc, the team is posting FAR improved winning %. Hmm I wonder why...?

After Miller got injured eddie has 9 wins and 7 losses win %56.25 a GAA of 2.4 and S% 920. When Miller plays the team averages 26.6 shots on goal against and when Eddie plays the team averages 28.4 shots against per-game.

In my opinion, there isn't that much difference in stat only a slight edge towards Eddie but nothing too significant to say that one goalie is better than the other.

Like with a known back up the starter is most likely to be pulled earlier giving ludicrous GAA (8+) and S%(<.800) in a bad game. When in eddies condition he would be kept in net and end up with a GAA of (4-6) and S% (>.800). There were more injuries when eddie started playing which may have contributed to more losses.

There are differences in the situations and such little differences in stats suggest that most likely they are both playing at the same level rather one is better than the other.

[aGENT]

There are differences in the situations and such little differences in stats suggest that most likely they are both playing at the same level rather one is better than the other.

Lack's stats are better than Miller's.

At worst they are "roughly" equal with Lack being younger and still improving and Miller being older and on the decline.

I know which one I'd be keeping.

[DIBdaQUIB]

It's a question that's worth running up the flag pole OP. Do they still need Miller since Lack is looking so good?

The answer is yes. Why?:

• Goalie is the most important position. I'm quoting JB.
• If Miller is traded, then Markstrom would be the back up. He looks nervous when he plays and he has not shown that he can win games at the NHL level. If the Canucks want to make the playoffs, should he be gifted 20 starts?
• Mentoring (see RK41 above)

I really think that Benning is going to be conservative with the goaltending. Miller will remain #1 and Lack will gradually get increased responsibility. Lack is certainly earning that opportunity right now. By the time Miller's contract is up in 2 years, Lack will be getting the equivalent of 75% of the work.

Lack isn't going to be satisfied waiting until he is 29 or 30 to take over the leading goaltender position. Careers in the NHL are short and if he continues to play like he has, he deserves a starting role. Benning will have to trade him or end up with another controversy and an unhappy goalie on his hands.

As affable as Lack is, he knows the clock is ticking and there are other goalies in the system that in 2 years will be pushing him.

MIller has been a steadying influence this year but his numbers have been anything but impressive (aside from W's which if you look at those games were as much to do with the team's goal support than his play).

Adorning him #1 just because he is higher paid and despite of how Eddie has played will create a rift by next year.

[RonMexico]

Dave Pratt approves this manufactured goalie controversy thread.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

There isn't going to be a controversy because someone is going to get moved. JB isn't going to replay Gillis on this one and try to wring every last drop of value out of whichever player he decides to move. I would take the Garrison move as a guide to how he will handle it. Get what you can, take the cap space and move on.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

One of the two goalies is gone this summer. My money is on Lack being dealt. Why?

Which goalie gets more in return on draft day.

Lack

27 year old goalie on the rise playing like a number 1

Cheap cap hit

No NTC

Miller

NTC (limited)

34 years old, still capable of being a solid number 1

$6 million cap hit

Next season we will role with Miller and Markstrom and work on getting Markstrom the experience to take over the number 1 role in 2 years when Millers contract is up. We use the value Lack gives up back in return to acquire future assets that will be needed. Lack gets the opportunity to be starter (on a different team) It’s a win, win. The only real loss is saying goodbye to a player that is liked by the team and the city. People get over it is a business. Move on and wish Lack the best.

[Chalky]

I will be judging JB by the off-season moves he makes to make damn sure we have no goalie controversy. He gets some leeway on the moves I didn't necessarily like thus far. Personally I think Lack can be our number one, and Miller can be moved to SJS or ANA. Possible cap dump for picks.

[Mustapha]

If you're lumping Brodeur in as being backup after 35 then I think you're horribly mistaken. Only in his last year in NJ was he backup. Even then that would be questionable.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot more goalies that go past 35 than you think as a starter.

Keep in mind I said it was a common category, yet not the most common. Overall the career age group of goalies in the NHL is older than in the other positions. There are statistics on it and everything.

The only starting goaltender I can think of that's 35 or older is Luongo...so your argument isn't really holding much water here.

Eddie is 27, and here is a list of goalies that are within ~3 years (older or younger) than Eddie in the NHL right now, all starting goaltenders, all of whom have much more NHL experience than Eddie.

Devan Dubnyk

Jaro Halak

Carey Price

Jonathan Bernier

Ben Bishop

Sergei Bobrovsky

Semyon Varlamov

Tuukka Rask

Steve Mason

Jonathan Quick

Cory Schneider

Considering all these guys already have loads of experience (some have championship experience) that means they were being 'groomed' when they are much younger than Eddie is now - further evidence that it's best to play Eddie more now.

It doesn't look like any other team (other than FLA) is using a 35 year old goalie - except Vancouver next season when Miller turns 35.

[wai_lai416]

gimme a break.. only in Vancouver we'll see the fans want the backup goalie to take over the number 1 job every year. Lunquvist have been avg this year.. and Cam Talbot carried the team to challenge for #1 overall in the league.. you don't see NYR fans calling for Talbot to be the #1? Cam Talbot played far better and more consistent than Lunquvist this year. I don't understand why can't we just appreciate we have 2 good goaltenders and have to start controversy everyday. Lack have been great lately but he still gives up the weak goals here and there. I still start Miller in the playoff IF he is ready. if he does poorly you have Lack ready to step in and take over.. rather than if we have Lack performing poorly.. it'll kill his confidence for next year and we have an ice cold miller to take over..

[MattA16]

One of the two goalies is gone this summer. My money is on Lack being dealt. Why?

Which goalie gets more in return on draft day.

Lack

27 year old goalie on the rise playing like a number 1

Cheap cap hit

No NTC

Miller

NTC (limited)

34 years old, still capable of being a solid number 1

$6 million cap hit

Next season we will role with Miller and Markstrom and work on getting Markstrom the experience to take over the number 1 role in 2 years when Millers contract is up. We use the value Lack gives up back in return to acquire future assets that will be needed. Lack gets the opportunity to be starter (on a different team) It’s a win, win. The only real loss is saying goodbye to a player that is liked by the team and the city. People get over it is a business. Move on and wish Lack the best.

This is assuming Markstrom can ever reach starter potential. At 25 years old he has yet to show enough at the NHL level to prove himself as such, and to assume he can be groomed into a quality starter is something that can come back to bite us. What happens if we get rid of Lack (who has proven he is capable of being a #1 guy), Miller takes over at age 34 and starts to decline, and we're faced with the dilemma of playing an aging $6m goaltender or a question mark in Markstrom? In my opinion, this is more of a probability than a possibility.

Let's not compare Lack to Schneider in terms of trade value. Anyone who thinks we can ship off Lack for a 1st round pick needs to face the reality. The goalie market is flooded and while Lack is showing promise, I doubt we get more than a 2nd and maybe a depth forward. With Miller's proven experience, a team who is a goaltender short of a playoff run (Anaheim, SJ?) may be willing to buy high considering Miller will only have 2 years left on his contract at that point.

I'd be more comfortable dealing Miller to free up the cap space if anything. Miller is a bigger question mark heading forward than Lack based on age, and with Lack proving he can be a #1 guy I don't see any reason to ship him away for scraps. Vancouver can't be in the business of grooming goaltenders only to ship them away. Lack has been in the system long enough and deserves a shot. Either keep Markstrom as a back-up or sign a veteran goalie in the offseason, and ride Eddie Lack until Thatcher Demko earns a roster spot and we can repeat the goaltender controversy process.

[soshified]

It should be 60/40. 60 for Miller and 40 for Lack.

This will keep both goalies healthy and fresh while keeping our team competitive. Miller will leave after 2 years and hopefully, Demko will be ready.

[Off_The_Schneid!]

This is assuming Markstrom can ever reach starter potential. At 25 years old he has yet to show enough at the NHL level to prove himself as such, and to assume he can be groomed into a quality starter is something that can come back to bite us. What happens if we get rid of Lack (who has proven he is capable of being a #1 guy), Miller takes over at age 34 and starts to decline, and we're faced with the dilemma of playing an aging $6m goaltender or a question mark in Markstrom? In my opinion, this is more of a probability than a possibility.

Let's not compare Lack to Schneider in terms of trade value. Anyone who thinks we can ship off Lack for a 1st round pick needs to face the reality. The goalie market is flooded and while Lack is showing promise, I doubt we get more than a 2nd and maybe a depth forward. With Miller's proven experience, a team who is a goaltender short of a playoff run (Anaheim, SJ?) may be willing to buy high considering Miller will only have 2 years left on his contract at that point.

I'd be more comfortable dealing Miller to free up the cap space if anything. Miller is a bigger question mark heading forward than Lack based on age, and with Lack proving he can be a #1 guy I don't see any reason to ship him away for scraps. Vancouver can't be in the business of grooming goaltenders only to ship them away. Lack has been in the system long enough and deserves a shot. Either keep Markstrom as a back-up or sign a veteran goalie in the offseason, and ride Eddie Lack until Thatcher Demko earns a roster spot and we can repeat the goaltender controversy process.

Goalie market flooded you say

Upcoming UFA"s

Goalie: Cap hit 2014/2015

Antti Niemi SJS $3,800,000

Viktor Fasth EDM . 2,900,000

Karri Ramo CGY $2,750,000

Michal NeuvirthBUF $2,500,000

Josh Harding MIN $1,900,000

Jonas Gustavsson DET $1,850,000

Peter Budaj WPG $1,400,000

Jhonas Enroth BUF $1,250,000

Thomas Greiss PIT $1,000,000

Ray Emery PHI $1,000,000

Dan Ellis FLA $900,000

Devan Dubnyk ARI $800,000

Jason LaBarbera ANA $750,000

David Leggio NYI $700,000

Curtis McElhinney CLB $650,000

Richard Bachman EDM $615,000

Joey MacDonald MTL $600,000

Rob Zepp PHI $600,000

Scott Clemmensen NJD $600,000

Drew MacIntyre CAR $600,000

John Curry MIN $575,000

Cam Talbot NYR $562,000

Mike McKenna ARI $550,000

Michael Leighton CHI $550,000

Brad Thiessen CGY $550,000

Anders Lindback DAL $463,000

Source: NHL Numbers

So you say the market is flooded however the only two goalies I would take over lack would be maybe dubnyk but prob not because he's going to get a huge pay day especially if he does well in the playoffs and talbot

Some of those teams will be unable to sign there goalies ( Faust,) and other teams may choose not too ( Niemi) leaving many possible teams in need of a number 1 goalie

Add in teams that were tanking for a high pick

And teams where goaltending fell short