Demolition Dangler Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Need to make the playoffs first. By then, though, I expect Miller to be back and he is still the number 1. Given Lack's continued good performance it means they can rest or pace Miller (i.e. not play every game) and give him the hook at first sign of issues with having full confidence in Lack to replace him. Even if Miller comes back from injury at the end of the season, I would start lack in the playoffs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I think that Lack will keep the reigns through the playoffs this year. Next year they will go with a Miller - Lack tandem (or Lack - Miller). By the end of the year, Eddy could be getting more games than Miller. It depends on how Lack develops. After that, Miller may be moved out. Miller was really brought in as a transition piece imo. I really don't think that Benning will take a flyer on Markstrom when he has looked as shaky as he has. Right now, Markstrom is clearly the third best goalie in the system and Benning has to make a decision on who to keep now (not in 2-3 years when Markstrom reaches his potential). Benning has the choice and he has said that goaltending is the most important position and therefore his #1 priority. So, tempting as the freed up cap space from moving Miller is, that sets the priorities in the wrong order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I never said Lack hasn't played better I said he has less pressure. What part of my quote did you bold again " He's played good but he's got it easy with little pressure." If you can't figure that out we probably shouldn't be haven't a debate in any sort. Good day I'm on record many times saying Miller is number 1, that Lack has played better and that I expect the Canucks to trade Lack as he has the highest trade value of the 3 Canuck goalies. This argument from Forsberg, if I understand it, is that until a goalie has high expectations placed on him he faces little pressure so we can't say he's a capable #1 regardless of how he plays. Aside from that meaning one can never get rid of a former #1 even if the backup has played better, it discounts that there are various kinds of pressure. What we have, though, is a situation where Lack clearly crashed and burned in the latter part of the 2013-14 season, causing Canucks management to not have faith in him, to bring in Miller and then for the first couple of months of the season play Lack only on the back end of back to back games. He's had to play on 2-3 weeks rest in circumstances that made it clear the Canucks didn't consider him capable. So Miller got hurt. Lack comes into a situation where it appears neither the fanbase nor the team management believe he can carry the load. Including the game before Miller was hurt he plays 19 games in 40 days. He plays with the flu. He plays regardless of how tired he may be. He plays with almost no practice. He plays both halves of back to backs. He plays behind a crumbling team missing 3 of its top 4 (in time on ice) defencemen plus another defenceman and 3 forwards. He does this during a playoff race behind a team that many figured wouldn't make the playoffs this season. The tight playoff race with a difficult schedule was pressure. The weakness of the roster due to injury was pressure. The team being largely unwilling to play his backup so the team is dependent solely on him is pressure. The eyes on him knowing how badly things went last year were pressure. The taking the net when sick, when tired, night after night during the busiest, most injury-filled part of the season when the team is fighting for a playoff spot, was incredible, immense pressure. The stretch (mostly during the injury fest) of the Canucks being badly outshot was pressure. Knowing that after the problems of last season, if he didn't perform well he'd be written off by many as not good enough was immense pressure. Since Miller was hurt Lack has played 18 games with a Save % of .925, a GAA of 2.39 and the team has gone 12-5-2. In the games Lack started (17 of them) they've gone 11-4-2. This is behind a team that was not exactly playing like a defensive juggernaut. In the game he replaced an injured Miller in the 2nd period he stopped 27 of 27 shots including 19 in the 3rd period. The following game against Boston he stopped 40 of 41 shots including 20 in the 2nd period. Two games later he faced 39 shots including 17 in the 3rd period. The following game Canucks allowed 18 shots in the 2nd period. Then followed games of 35 shots, 40 shots, and 30 shots (in the last Canucks managed only 16 and won 2-1.) (Shots against then improved. I haven't checked the correlation with what players made it back from injury about that time.) How good is that record and how was the schedule. I think it was early Feburary janisisahockeynut posted the results of a study she did. She took the schedule for the rest of the season and assumed Canucks would beat every team they played the rest of the way that had a point % to that point in the season lower than the Canucks was at the time, and that Canucks would lose against every team they played that had a higher point % to that point in the season than the Canucks did. Her result had the Canucks finishing the season with 81 points. They now have 95 pts with 5 games left to play. To say Lack isn't good enough because he's had it easy with no pressure is ridiculous. Is Lack #1 in Vancouver? No. Do I expect him to be? No. Has he performed well under immense pressure? Absolutely. Sources: -time on ice, goals, save % from war-on-ice -team record, shot data from the recaps/boxscores of games at canucks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Great discussion everyone, with strong points on all sides. I hate to say it, but this is going to go down like the Luongo-Schneider situation in at least one respect: whoever is the easiest to move will be the one who goes. Hopefully JB acts sooner and more decisively than Gillis did, and WD doesn't publicly humiliate Miller and ruin his trade value the way AV did to Luongo. The GM and the coach really do have to work as a team in situations like this. But at the end of the day, goalies are hard to move because of limited demand, and it will come down to who they can deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 News1130 Sports @News1130Sports 12m12 minutes ago Trevor Linden on Comets TV : "Ryan Miller may join team at practice soon, still couple of weeks away." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturk8 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Jeff Paterson @patersonjeff 9m9 minutes ago #Canucks Willie D tells @tsn1040 he's running with Eddie Lack. Only way he'll change is if Lack's play drops off What's the question associated with this answer? is it something along the lines of "Will Markstrom get another start this season?" or "Who will start when Miller is healthy?" Context is pretty important with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 What's the question associated with this answer? is it something along the lines of "Will Markstrom get another start this season?" or "Who will start when Miller is healthy?" Context is pretty important with this statement. I think it's in regards to our current situation and not in reference to when miller returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Not about Miller getting hurt, its about throwing Lack in once and for all and finding out if he can be the #1 guy. At 27, how much longer do they want to look at him? I think it was a mistake signing Miller. Lack was unproven but this was the yr to find out. If he faltered, we learn that he's not a #1 and we move on. If he plays well, like he is, we have our man. Now instead we have two #1s yet again. Markstrom/Lack Lack gets injured for a long period of time... Markstrom #1? Good-bye season. Miller/Lack Miller gets injured for a long period of time... We have Lack!!! We can still win yay!! We have had success with not one but two, TWO, solid goalies. since 2010-11 besides, for obvious reasons, the Torts year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimp C Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Eddie Lack has been by far the best goaltender in the Canucks organization since March 4 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noseforthenet Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I have a feeling we will get San Jose's first rounder this year via a goalie trade. At first I was thinking Lack is the guy to be traded obviously, but now not so sure. The guys seem to rally around Lack. When Miller's in net, the team just expect him to be good. Like they did with Lu. If that's what it takes to get the best play out of this team, then I guess Miller is out. And with that salary open, we could likely make a run at Mike Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Signing Miller was Bennings biggest mistake thus far as GM. No need to spend 6 mil on an average goalie. I would be fine if the Canucks traded Miller and retained 2 mil per year of his cap hit to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lord Baltimore Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Lacks play this year makes the Miller signing even more confusing than last summer. If you knew anything about hockey you should not be confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Signing Miller was Bennings biggest mistake thus far as GM. No need to spend 6 mil on an average goalie. I would be fine if the Canucks traded Miller and retained 2 mil per year of his cap hit to do it. Nah we need Miller and Lack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Nah we need Miller and Lack. I'd rather Lack and Markstrom and use the extra 5 mil on a top 6 forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuporbust Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 He's number 1 in my heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Baumermann So tell us all what position in hockey do you think is the most important? And why Jim Benning should invest the most of his resources (cap) in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_The_Schneid! Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 San Jose, Philly, Edmonton, and Dallas could potentially be looking for a #1 goalie with Niemi being the only true #1 UFA goalie Lack has played average since being #1 Let's in some terrible goals and is often caught swimming Bad side to side movement often being out of position The games I've seen live I was most surprised with how good miller was Very good positioning and no wasted energy Millers injury has increased lacks trade value, however I hope miller gets a game before playoffs That's exactly what we need in playoffs, a goalie battle resulting in one goalie on a hot streak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Baumermann So tell us all what position in hockey do you think is the most important? And why Jim Benning should invest the most of his resources (cap) in it? The most influential position would be goaltending. That being said, goalies have a very small standard deviation across the league. That is to say, there are many average goalies and only a few elite goalies. Thus, unless a GM can find one of those elite goalies it is a much better strategy to find an average goalie (like Lack) and pay him no more than an average salary. Although it is ideal to have a great goalie, the rarity of them makes it very difficult to find one. Plus, they are not necessary to win the cup. The last 3 cup winners have had average goalies (Quick x2 and Crawford). I would much rather have the Miller's salary invest in defence or forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Well thought out. I tend to agree as long as there is a backup that you can rely on. In a year, things may be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 lack is a very good goalie.. but also a very lucky one.. since miller went down.. i lost count how many time the post made the save for him. Lack still needs to work on his positioning with the goalie coach.. while he's been great down the stretch.. he's prone to over committing and have to dive back to either make a spectacular saves that shouldn't happen in the first place.. or a weak goal.. get that out of his game and he'll be really good.. so i still rather a miller/lack tandem so he can work that out of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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