[Proposal] Neal & Ellis from Nashville

[canucklehead44]

The Canucks need speed from the back-end. Ellis is a great skater and still young (24).

Dejardins stated that the twins need a big goal scorer who will go to the net. James Neal fits this bill pretty well and is still fairly young (27). He had a subpar season with Nashville and could probably be available via trade.

I think either, or both, players could be a fit in Vancouver. Ellis is buried behind a really great D in Nashville (like Hamhuis) and could really thrive here. As much as I would love to see Kassian play on the top line I don't know if he is quite there yet.

Neal sucked this year and has one season left on his contract. I don't know what it would cost to acquire him, but he is attainable. Ellis will be much more costly, but considering he was their number 5 dman in ice time he is likely also within reach.

Thoughts on either player?

[Monty]

Yeah, that won't get it done because that's an insult to the Preds.

[canucklehead44]

Yeah, that won't get it done because that's an insult to the Preds.

Well Vrbata > Neal. How much is Ellis worth? Horvat? Ellis was 5th in TOI/GP for Nashville for dmen, he isn't a top pairing.

[Monty]

Now that you edited it to include a 1st round pick, yeah, I think the Preds take that and run.

[canucklehead44]

Now that you edited it to include a 1st round pick, yeah, I think the Preds take that and run.

A late first rounder isn't enough to sway a landslide either way... you make zero sense. Either way who gives a crap about the players I suggested, the topic is more about filling a need. What would you propose?

[Drakrami]

Yeah, that won't get it done because that's an insult to the Preds.

No its not, you underrat Vrbata.

Don't like the deal though, we dont need another small defenseman. Nor should we pick up a hated dirty player like Neal, it's not like we get respected in the league.

[canucklehead44]

No its not, you underrat Vrbata.

Don't like the deal though, we dont need another small defenseman. Nor should we pick up a hated dirty player like Neal, it's not like we get respected in the league.

Good point - I'd like to keep size on our D. That said, to get a player with great skating ability, offensive upside AND size is pretty difficult. On our powerplay for next year we have Edler... Clendening? Hamhuis, Bieksa, Tanev, and Sbisa are all pretty weak offensively (combined for six PPP, ouch).

I am a huge fan of Vrbata, and would way rather have him on the team than Neal. I am looking at this more from the recent presser, and wanting to get younger, bigger, and get the twins a guy who will go to the net. I am fine with putting Kassian with the twins, then having Vrbata with Horvat/Bonino and Baertschi.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think Nashville will let Franson walk after that little experiment, so Ellis will be required to play 20 minutes a night on their 2nd pairing.

Josi - Weber

Jones - Ellis

Ekholm - anyone

They may have a warped LD-RD combination but who cares when their defence is so good all-round. Jones and Josi will get more time and more points, but they still need Ellis' production so I doubt they move him.

[Time Lord]

I think Nashville will let Franson walk after that little experiment, so Ellis will be required to play 20 minutes a night on their 2nd pairing.

Josi - Weber

Jones - Ellis

Ekholm - anyone

They may have a warped LD-RD combination but who cares when their defence is so good all-round. Jones and Josi will get more time and more points, but they still need Ellis' production so I doubt they move him.

Or maybe they'll do the logical thing and put Ekholm with Jones because that's how it was all season and their handedness makes sense?

You're underestimating the importance of putting D-men on their proper sides. Some lefties can play both sides, but right handed D-men almost never play left, in a situation where it can be avoided.

So Ellis is on their 3rd pair. But I like his skill set and he's young, so I would go after him for sure if he was available at the right price.

[shiznak]

I like the idea of getting Neal, but not Ellis. Too small against the big bad western teams. Rather go for Ekholm.

Neal isn't a proto-typical power-forward, but he will to go to the dirty areas, and use his body at times. He had a "terrible" season, points wise, but still managed to pot in 23 goals in 67 games, this season. He gives us that secondary scoring on the left side (can play both wing), and would look great with Bonino and Vrbata/Baerstchi.

I think we could work something out with Nashville. Maybe give them a veteran guy like Hamhuis, who is already familiar with the organization and may waive his NTC to go back to the team that drafted him. Add in Kassian, a prospect in Jensen , and Nashville would be crazy to decline the offer.

To Vancouver:

James Neal

Mattias Ekholm

2nd round pick

To Nashville:

Dan Hamhuis

Zack Kassian

Nicklas Jensen

[BI3KSA-]

I like the idea of getting Neal, but not Ellis. Too small against the big bad western teams. Rather go for Ekholm.

Neal isn't a proto-typical power-forward, but he will to go to the dirty areas, and use his body at times. He had a "terrible" season, points wise, but still managed to pot in 23 goals in 67 games, this season. He gives us that secondary scoring on the left side (can play both wing), and would look great with Bonino and Vrbata/Baerstchi.

I think we could work something out with Nashville. Maybe give them a veteran guy like Hamhuis, who is already familiar with the organization and may waive his NTC to go back to the team that drafted him. Add in Kassian, a prospect in Jensen , and Nashville would be crazy to decline the offer.

To Vancouver:

James Neal

Mattias Ekholm

2nd round pick

To Nashville:

Dan Hamhuis

Zack Kassian

Nicklas Jensen

This deal would make us a lot better right now but it feels like a bad idea to me to give up on Kassian. I'd rather we put something else into the deal to replace him, like maybe Matthias and a pick or something.

[Ryan Strome]

This deal would make us a lot better right now but it feels like a bad idea to me to give up on Kassian. I'd rather we put something else into the deal to replace him, like maybe Matthias and a pick or something.

Matthias is a free agent...

[shiznak]

This deal would make us a lot better right now but it feels like a bad idea to me to give up on Kassian. I'd rather we put something else into the deal to replace him, like maybe Matthias and a pick or something.

The rights to Matthias is worth nothing, and I doubt Benning would want to throw away a first round pick in the deal. Kassian has had more downs than ups, since arrival. When he isn't playing his best hockey, he's either in the coaches' doghouse, sitting in the pressbox, or injured. I think his time in Vancouver has ran its course, and both parties need to go their separate ways.

Now some will argue, how can you trade Kassian, after what has happened in the playoffs, these past few years?

What people failed to realize is that, we didn't lose these series due to lack of toughness. We loss those series, because we didn't have secondary scoring.

[BI3KSA-]

Matthias is a free agent...

The rights to him

The rights to Matthias is worth nothing, and I doubt Benning would want to throw away a first round pick in the deal. Kassian has had more downs than ups, since arrival. When he isn't playing his best hockey, he's either in the coaches' doghouse, sitting in the pressbox, or injured. I think his time in Vancouver has ran its course, and both parties need to go their separate ways.

Now some will argue, how can you trade Kassian, after what has happened in the playoffs, these past few years?

What people failed to realize is that, we didn't lose these series due to lack of toughness. We loss those series, because we didn't have secondary scoring.

Kassian has a rare potential skillset that usually takes quite a bit longer to come to fruition. I wouldnt want to give him up now if we can help it. Has nothing to do with the series vs Calgary.

Admittedly the rights to Matthias isn't worth much and yeah JB probably wouldnt want to give up a first, but it was just an example of a potential replacement cause I simply didnt want to give Kassian up yet.

[N7Nucks]

Just nab Franson from Free Agency. Then try trade Bieksa or someone for additional cap.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

I think Neal & Ellis would be really awesome in filling the teams needs.

Neal would look pretty good on Horvat's left-side, and Ellis, like you said, would speed and offense to our defense and would be more dependable than Weber, as well as having a larger upside. Plus, they're both young and have 5-10 years left in their prime each, which is the rebuild Benning is going for.

Neal was pretty good in their playoff round, and wasn't actually that bad offensively in the season, so I don't think he'll be that cheap. He paced for the most goals on the team.

In terms of analysis, I actually think Vrbata would fit in well with Nashville's core and he's played under Peter Laviolette before...it was a horrible Carolina team, but Vrbata was one of the better players and put up 8 points in 14 games down the stretch when he was given a chance under Laviolette (Maurice was earlier fired that year), that was where Vrbata basically broke out, scoring well for Chitown the next year.

Ellis could probably put up 30-35 points with Sedin + Edler PP time and has a RH shot. Not to mention, Kassian and Ellis had a lot of PP time together during their Windsor season in 2011, and both had good playoffs together.

I don't know what we could offer that would make Nashville bite though, maybe:

To Nashville: Vrbata, Jensen, Sbisa and a 2nd round pick

To Vancouver: Neal, Ellis and a later pick.

[mll]

There is no way that Nashville trades away Ellis who is on a very friendly long-term deal (they have another 4 years at 2.5M). There are no players on the Canucks that are enticing enough to let go one of their 5 regular Ds.

The only deal Nashville is looking to do is trading for a C1. They are set at all the other positions and GM Poile was very mindful of not wanting to disrupt team chemistry. In his year end presser he said that he feels that his team is set and that there won't be any major moves this off-season.

Again there is no interest in Vrbata - Neal has the same cap hit but for two years longer and he is younger (ie he still has 3 years at 5M). Nashville have their own Jensen in Watson (and Sissons) who both have more put up more points than Jensen and both can play centre. Nashville knows something about Dmen and their 4 young Ds: Josi, Jones, Ekholm and Ellis are under 25 and are cost controlled for years to come and are only going to get better. No way they disrupt that for anything other than a C1.

For info, Ellis/Ekholm are the 2nd pairing - they've played the whole year together until Ellis got injured and then at the deadline there was another shuffle because Franson was acquired (but as you've heard GM Poile say "he isn't a fit" so he won't get re-signed).

Jones is D5. His minutes are misleading because during a game he gets moved on different pairings to help his development. Ellis doesn't really play on the PK so it's Jones that plays with Ekholm. Ekholm doesn't really play on the PP - it's Jones that takes his spot besides Ellis for that. Also Jones gets a few shifts with Weber (mainly) and Josi throughout the game.

[Ilya Mikheyev]

There is no way that Nashville trades away Ellis who is on a very friendly long-term deal (they have another 4 years at 2.5M). There are no players on the Canucks that are enticing enough to let go one of their 5 regular Ds.

The only deal Nashville is looking to do is trading for a C1. They are set at all the other positions and GM Poile was very mindful of not wanting to disrupt team chemistry. In his year end presser he said that he feels that his team is set and that there won't be any major moves this off-season.

Again there is no interest in Vrbata - Neal has the same cap hit but for two years longer and he is younger (ie he still has 3 years at 5M). Nashville have their own Jensen in Watson (and Sissons) who both have more put up more points than Jensen and both can play centre. Nashville knows something about Dmen and their 4 young Ds: Josi, Jones, Ekholm and Ellis are under 25 and are cost controlled for years to come and are only going to get better. No way they disrupt that for anything other than a C1.

For info, Ellis/Ekholm are the 2nd pairing - they've played the whole year together until Ellis got injured and then at the deadline there was another shuffle because Franson was acquired (but as you've heard GM Poile say "he isn't a fit" so he won't get re-signed).

Jones is D5. His minutes are misleading because during a game he gets moved on different pairings to help his development. Ellis doesn't really play on the PK so it's Jones that plays with Ekholm. Ekholm doesn't really play on the PP - it's Jones that takes his spot besides Ellis for that. Also Jones gets a few shifts with Weber (mainly) and Josi throughout the game.

Great points.

[Threadsetter]

so bad what r u thinking

[canucklehead44]

There is no way that Nashville trades away Ellis who is on a very friendly long-term deal (they have another 4 years at 2.5M). There are no players on the Canucks that are enticing enough to let go one of their 5 regular Ds.

The only deal Nashville is looking to do is trading for a C1. They are set at all the other positions and GM Poile was very mindful of not wanting to disrupt team chemistry. In his year end presser he said that he feels that his team is set and that there won't be any major moves this off-season.

Again there is no interest in Vrbata - Neal has the same cap hit but for two years longer and he is younger (ie he still has 3 years at 5M). Nashville have their own Jensen in Watson (and Sissons) who both have more put up more points than Jensen and both can play centre. Nashville knows something about Dmen and their 4 young Ds: Josi, Jones, Ekholm and Ellis are under 25 and are cost controlled for years to come and are only going to get better. No way they disrupt that for anything other than a C1.

For info, Ellis/Ekholm are the 2nd pairing - they've played the whole year together until Ellis got injured and then at the deadline there was another shuffle because Franson was acquired (but as you've heard GM Poile say "he isn't a fit" so he won't get re-signed).

Jones is D5. His minutes are misleading because during a game he gets moved on different pairings to help his development. Ellis doesn't really play on the PK so it's Jones that plays with Ekholm. Ekholm doesn't really play on the PP - it's Jones that takes his spot besides Ellis for that. Also Jones gets a few shifts with Weber (mainly) and Josi throughout the game.

Great analysis, thanks. I don't know why I read one year left on Neal's contract, but with the longer term I don't see this happening (thought he had one year left).

There are very few players in the league that would meet the Canucks needs. These two players more or less do, but as you described they would be much harder to pry than I had anticipated.

I don't think Franson is the answer, and he will get way over paid as a UFA. He is kind of a Edler/Garrison type. Good size, can lay down a bit hit, hard shot, puts of points but isn't a great puck carrier nor has great speed.

We need a player that can carry the puck. Ed Jovanovski didn't put up huge point totals (they were good, but not dominant) and his shot wasn't amazing. What he did was drive the offense through his puck carrying. Back when Naslund and Bertuzzi were near the top of the league in scoring and getting some hype, Bryan Leetch said in an interview after a game against the Canucks that the Canucks wouldn't be able to do what they are doing without Jovo. Jovanovski was probably the most underrated piece of the high-flying WCE era. Also look at the impact Ehrhoff made here. Neither player was particularly popular as they both made a lot of defensive mistakes.