Alberta Election: NDP Wins Majority to End PC Dynasty

[ronthecivil]

The thing is. it won't be the fault of the NDP

They MAY be the catalyst to a potential issue, but that issue will have been propagated over the last decade federally and over the last 20+ years in Alberta provincially.

They'll just end up being the fall guys sadly.

Also, the best thing about CPP and RRSPs is how those who cry socialist the loudest use those two funds as a defense of the oil industry. It's been a long standing point of amusement for me to hear people whinge about the evils of socialism yet claim their CPP and RRSPs are at risk and then underscore the importance of them :D

I am not crying I am not even expecting CPP to exist when I retire.

I am simply pointing out that a lot of the people that cheer against the oil industry have a bigger stake in it than they might think.....

Also, I don't have much oil exposure in my RRSP plan (there is no such things as RRSPs) or in my TFSA and what little I have I bought recently when they were already low, so I am certainly not winging.

I am simply pointing out that people might be cheering their own financial demise without knowing about it.

That's all.

[ronthecivil]

If the oil industry as a whole was properly managed by both levels of government the industry could be a lot more stable and have less (and/or less extreme) boom and bust cycles enabling more consistent (if slightly lower annually) pay for the many associated trades/workers.

It could be managed a lot better but you can't take the cycles out on account of it being a commodity on a global market.

But what COULD happen is that you save like crazy when times are good and then spend when times are bad with your savings. You know, the opposite of what every western government/citizen actually does?

[aGENT]

It could be managed a lot better but you can't take the cycles out on account of it being a commodity on a global market.

But what COULD happen is that you save like crazy when times are good and then spend when times are bad with your savings. You know, the opposite of what every western government/citizen actually does?

That's basically what I was referring to, yes (Among other things.)

[ronthecivil]

How many times under the three previous Alta gov'ts, has policy been changed? Royalties reworked? This mess began awhile ago, not overnight, like most of the neo-cons are saying.

I don't disagree with that.

The funny thing is that right now would be a great time to implement the policies the conservatives were doing over there. Having low surpluses/slight debt and low royalties during a time of low oil prices would be perfect. Even better would be to catch up with infrastructure spending.

Having the NDP over the last four years would have been fine. Just not now.

[aGENT]

I don't disagree with that.

The funny thing is that right now would be a great time to implement the policies the conservatives were doing over there. Having low surpluses/slight debt and low royalties during a time of low oil prices would be perfect. Even better would be to catch up with infrastructure spending.

Having the NDP over the last four years would have been fine. Just not now.

And the cycle continues.... The right screws everything up and gets booted, the left comes in and attempts to correct the screw ups, people see the long term repercussions of their previous short term thinking and *rabble, rabble* "See, the left killed the economy!" *rabble, rabble*... Then the right comes back, "Don't worry, we'll save you from the evil, economy killing, commies!"

Rinse and repeat...

Would be nice if the voting public could learn from their mistakes and actually see things through long term.

[RonMexico]

If the oil industry as a whole was properly managed by both levels of government the industry could be a lot more stable and have less (and/or less extreme) boom and bust cycles enabling more consistent (if slightly lower annually) pay for the many associated trades/workers.

It's not an oil industry problem, it's a corporation problem. I work for a large corporation myself and they make no effort towards stability by evening out boom and bust cycles. They want to make as much profit as possible and as recklessly as possible when the export prices are high. Along comes a dip and they just hack and slash to maintain share price and appease shareholders.

While your idea has merit, it holds no water. Corporations do not give a flying you-know-what about their employees. Churn and burn is the motto of the day.

[aGENT]

It's not an oil industry problem, it's a corporation problem. I work for a large corporation myself and they make no effort towards stability by evening out boom and bust cycles. They want to make as much profit as possible and as recklessly as possible when the export prices are high. Along comes a dip and they just hack and slash to maintain share price and appease shareholders.

While your idea has merit, it holds no water. Corporations do not give a flying you-know-what about their employees. Churn and burn is the motto of the day.

Agreed, it IS a corporation problem!

Which is why governments need to do a better job regulating/managing their moronic, economy damaging methods

[Hugor Hill]

And the cycle continues.... The right screws everything up and gets booted, the left comes in and attempts to correct the screw ups, people see the long term repercussions of their previous short term thinking and *rabble, rabble* "See, the left killed the economy!" *rabble, rabble*... Then the right comes back, "Don't worry, we'll save you from the evil, economy killing, commies!"

Rinse and repeat...

Would be nice if the voting public could learn from their mistakes and actually see things through long term.

This is it. Oil prices are down, and might stay down for god knows how long. The oil industry in Alberta will suffer. People will blame the NDP government for ruining the oil industry when in fact they had nothing to do with it (just as the PC had nothing to do with its success over the last 10 or so years).

Political parties don't generally have that much impact on the economy as advance as ours, yet people credit and blame them for like everything.

I will even go as far to say that Harper's government had very little to do with the huge deficits and debt the federal budget had ballooned up over the duration of the recession. And some of you know I'm no fan of the Harper gov't. Recession is recession. That's what happens to economies like ours when recessions hit.

[Warhippy]

I am not crying I am not even expecting CPP to exist when I retire.

I am simply pointing out that a lot of the people that cheer against the oil industry have a bigger stake in it than they might think.....

Also, I don't have much oil exposure in my RRSP plan (there is no such things as RRSPs) or in my TFSA and what little I have I bought recently when they were already low, so I am certainly not winging.

I am simply pointing out that people might be cheering their own financial demise without knowing about it.

That's all.

i think you mistook me. I wasn't meaning you just some people who use the cpp and rrsps as a defense while still whining about socialism.

So apologies if you thought i was referring to you in that. Its the irony of that defense and complaint that amuses me

[Qwags]

I really should start paying more attention to politics; I knew this election was happening, I just didn't know the significance of it.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

This is it. Oil prices are down, and might stay down for god knows how long. The oil industry in Alberta will suffer. People will blame the NDP government for ruining the oil industry when in fact they had nothing to do with it (just as the PC had nothing to do with its success over the last 10 or so years).

Political parties don't generally have that much impact on the economy as advance as ours, yet people credit and blame them for like everything.

I will even go as far to say that Harper's government had very little to do with the huge deficits and debt the federal budget had ballooned up over the duration of the recession. And some of you know I'm no fan of the Harper gov't. Recession is recession. That's what happens to economies like ours when recessions hit.

I agree with everything until this. Harper dug himself a HUGE hole when he cut the GST, against the advice of multiple economists. The deficits would have been MUCH smaller had they been so quick to cut taxes. That is why the recent tax cuts are a joke. The CRAPs just got back to even, then decide that tax cuts are in order, even though they have no real clue how bad this oil price reduction is going to get, or how long it is going to last. So no, Super Awesome in the eyes of CRAP supporters Stevo Harpers DID have a hand in the huge deficits.

Edit: cause I guess calling Stevo Herr Harper might piss some people off. I say it cause of how little I respect the tool.

CRAP = Conservative Reform Alliance Party

[the last outlaw]

NDP better not mess up or they will end up as Bob Rae 1 term government.

[ronthecivil]

It's not an oil industry problem, it's a corporation problem. I work for a large corporation myself and they make no effort towards stability by evening out boom and bust cycles. They want to make as much profit as possible and as recklessly as possible when the export prices are high. Along comes a dip and they just hack and slash to maintain share price and appease shareholders.

While your idea has merit, it holds no water. Corporations do not give a flying you-know-what about their employees. Churn and burn is the motto of the day.

Yup. That's why when times are good and corporations are creating money and taxes you slow down government spending. Dramatically. Why compete with industry during boom periods? Problem is they do the opposite.

And of course, when there's a slowdown, the government (and the population generally) suddenly realizes it can't even make it's monthly payments let alone build anything new. Tragic during a time when there's people out of work all over and the cost of building things like bridges and hospitals is at a low.

[ronthecivil]

I agree with everything until this. Harper dug himself a HUGE hole when he cut the GST, against the advice of multiple economists. The deficits would have been MUCH smaller had they been so quick to cut taxes. That is why the recent tax cuts are a joke. The CRAPs just got back to even, then decide that tax cuts are in order, even though they have no real clue how bad this oil price reduction is going to get, or how long it is going to last. So no, Herr Harper DID have a hand in the huge deficits.

I don't think that Harper is a Nazi or even German, and going on like that distracts from actual problems. Act like that and they can respond about being offended and how they love human rights!

Keep the argument to economics and then you can hold their feet to the fire.

Or just fall right into the trap. Your choice.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

I don't think that Harper is a Nazi or even German, and going on like that distracts from actual problems. Act like that and they can respond about being offended and how they love human rights!

Keep the argument to economics and then you can hold their feet to the fire.

Or just fall right into the trap. Your choice.

Fixed, somewhat I guess

[Mr.Habitat]

Zero chance the ndp form the next federal government. They topped out as the official opposition.

[Hugor Hill]

I agree with everything until this. Harper dug himself a HUGE hole when he cut the GST, against the advice of multiple economists. The deficits would have been MUCH smaller had they been so quick to cut taxes. That is why the recent tax cuts are a joke. The CRAPs just got back to even, then decide that tax cuts are in order, even though they have no real clue how bad this oil price reduction is going to get, or how long it is going to last. So no, Super Awesome in the eyes of CRAP supporters Stevo Harpers DID have a hand in the huge deficits.

Edit: cause I guess calling Stevo Herr Harper might piss some people off. I say it cause of how little I respect the tool.

CRAP = Conservative Reform Alliance Party

HST is still 13%.

Once upon a time I used to charge clients, what, 7% GST? Did he cut the GST to 5% but raised the other part to 8% so nothing changed?

I felt 0 effect of this tax cut.

[otherwise]

HST is still 13%.

Once upon a time I used to charge clients, what, 7% GST? Did he cut the GST to 5% but raised the other part to 8% so nothing changed?

I felt 0 effect of this tax cut.

I have no idea about HST, but yes GST is 5% he cut it from 7...in like 2006 or 07.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

HST is still 13%.

Once upon a time I used to charge clients, what, 7% GST? Did he cut the GST to 5% but raised the other part to 8% so nothing changed?

I felt 0 effect of this tax cut.

HST is Harmonized Sales Tax. It is the GST and your provinces PST combined into one.

[the last outlaw]

Zero chance the ndp form the next federal government. They topped out as the official opposition.

Trudeau and Mulcair should form a coalition to ensure Harper is booted out.

Liberals did horrible in Alberta election.