Jim Benning on TSN 1040 (May 4)

[Dazzle]

Agreed.

I generally ignore posters that go off on personal attacks rather than discuss Canucks related issues.

I thought Bennings first year was kind of mixed. I don't think there was enough change over to attribute this seasons success over last year purely to Benning. The majority of the team still is Gillis' creation. In another year or so and the team will firmly become Bennings'.

It's fine to question his work this season - it's another entirely to question the competency of a GM, which was your post was about.

You deserved to get called out for that, even though you did say that you'd hold out your opinion on that.

You seem to think that he was the GM on those teams (Buffalo, Boston etc). He was the AGM, so the GM may or may not have the pressure of selecting someone else that he has seen.

You focus on the bad but never on the good. Benning has been scouting WHL games all game long. He knows the young players and this has been covered extensively, to make sure that he knows which players that he's getting back.

He traded Mallet (a terrible, terrible over-aged Gillis pick in the 2nd round) to NYI for a big giant defenseman who is making a difference on the Utica team. Did I mention that Mallet played in the ECHL? No I haven't. That was a good trade.

The Baertschi pick was excellent, as well as the Conacher one. Both have made BIG statements in their games in Utica. If you don't follow Utica games, you wouldn't know how good they are. He's made sure that the farm team is being taken care of, even if the main team may or may not make it all the way.

There was no trade that he could've done that would've helped this team in overachieving. Traded Kesler away, which was a difficult but necessary trade - Bonino (2M contract) and Sbisa (a physical defenseman).

In addition, Kassian has been given chances to succeed and he has. That's been a Benning approach into how he was handled.

[smithers joe]

the team needs to get faster, younger and tougher...benning said that...some people believe if you move all your core out, we'll be better...great hockey minds eh?....you don't move these guys out until you have players that can push them out....he also said that...

as far as sbisa is concerned, he is still young and developing his skills...defensemen take longer to play an all round game....he plays physical as he is developing....with players like that, they need patience...edler took time to become an all round d-man...paul coffey was brutal in his first few years...it takes time to build a winner because it has to be done the right way.. people want instant results...

i don't know anyone on this sight, me included that are smarter than the management team here ......they just think they are.

[canut]

I'm sure this a first-hand account of what happened to you, but projected onto another person. Get some help, bud.

I'm not your bud. Guy.

[hockeygod77]

if i was jimmy b i would look at keeping hamius...the guys that are in the mix for trading or replacing would not be easy...i like theses players myself but its a business and you need to get better...playes like bieksa higgins richardson stanton vey jensen miller and vibrate need to be looked at in big deals ....you need to get players from teams that are looking for players that will improve them...in return we get pieces of the puzzle

[Nuckin Kingsly]

KB3 must remain as a Canuck....he is the heart and soul and the identity of this Vancouver team. Without KB3, the Canuck is nothing.

Haha, how far as that heart and souls brought us lately. Kevin isn't very useful anymore, and its time to get past the nostalgia of him being a canuck for ten years and move on. Why does everyone want us to keep the players that are holding us back??? This is a business, while I'm happy for what he brought to us.. and will love him forever. We need better players on our team.

[Nuckin Kingsly]

Toughness is overrated. This team was at its best when toughness was the least important factor of the squad.

And how did we do against Boston? And next year against la? Definitely not overrated, especially in the playoffs.

[250Integra]

It's fine to question his work this season - it's another entirely to question the competency of a GM, which was your post was about.

You deserved to get called out for that, even though you did say that you'd hold out your opinion on that.

You seem to think that he was the GM on those teams (Buffalo, Boston etc). He was the AGM, so the GM may or may not have the pressure of selecting someone else that he has seen.

You focus on the bad but never on the good. Benning has been scouting WHL games all game long. He knows the young players and this has been covered extensively, to make sure that he knows which players that he's getting back.

He traded Mallet (a terrible, terrible over-aged Gillis pick in the 2nd round) to NYI for a big giant defenseman who is making a difference on the Utica team. Did I mention that Mallet played in the ECHL? No I haven't. That was a good trade.

The Baertschi pick was excellent, as well as the Conacher one. Both have made BIG statements in their games in Utica. If you don't follow Utica games, you wouldn't know how good they are. He's made sure that the farm team is being taken care of, even if the main team may or may not make it all the way.

There was no trade that he could've done that would've helped this team in overachieving. Traded Kesler away, which was a difficult but necessary trade - Bonino (2M contract) and Sbisa (a physical defenseman).

In addition, Kassian has been given chances to succeed and he has. That's been a Benning approach into how he was handled.

Great post.

Jim Benning is building a winning environment from the bottom up, while keeping the Canucks competitive until young players are ready to step in. This has been his and Linden's philosophy and goal since day one of last year and they have done tremendously so far. The successful teams in this league have been doing this for years - look at the young players that have stepped in for teams like Tampa, Detroit, Los Angeles, Chicago, St. Louis, and more, who are succeeding in the NHL because of their time spent in the AHL, learning the pro-game in a competitive and winning environment.

Travis Green is doing a tremendous job down at Utica and that stems from Benning bringing in a mixture of seasoned prospects / veterans to ease in the rookies. For example, look at a player like Cody Hodgson. He had all the offensive tools to be successful in the NHL but was he was never pushed to work on his defensive game in the pro-league. He showed that he could put up points, but he also showed that he struggled to play defense - hence his low number of defensive-zone starts (and look at him now in buffalo).

Compare that with our farm team now, look at a player like Hunter Shinkaruk. Based on the reports I have heard, Hunter struggled to find his game until March / April came around. The offensive talent was there, but he struggled to compete with the bigger and stronger AHL players. During that time, the coaching staff worked on his defensive game and compete level which is paying dividends now as he has found his scoring touch. Although he was a 1st round pick, he did not have the weight of having to succeed and carry the farm team like other rookies have had in the past. He was brought in slowly and was allowed to struggle without any pressure, and his game has grown so much which will make him a more complete player in the future.

Kudos to our management team for instilling this environment and culture in such a short period of time. We will all look back 3-4 years from now and appreciate why this was done.

[stawns]

This is a bit tough, but I am beginning to have my doubts about Benning as GM. Love him as head scout but he might be in over his head in some areas (like contract negotiations).

And, while I was negative about Gillis by the time he left, he did at least sound intelligent. Benning does sometimes sound kind of clueless.

I think I know what body part you are pulling this out of. Everyone, including Dorsett and Sbisa got fair market value for their services and he didn't hand out NTC/NMC like a Gillis pez dispenser.

Do you expect him to low ball every player and then be able to put together a winning team?

[Maniwaki Canuck]

if i was jimmy b i would look at keeping hamius...the guys that are in the mix for trading or replacing would not be easy...i like theses players myself but its a business and you need to get better...playes like bieksa higgins richardson stanton vey jensen miller and vibrate need to be looked at in big deals ....you need to get players from teams that are looking for players that will improve them...in return we get pieces of the puzzle

No! We absolutely cannot let him deal our vibrator.

[stawns]

if i was jimmy b i would look at keeping hamius...the guys that are in the mix for trading or replacing would not be easy...i like theses players myself but its a business and you need to get better...playes like bieksa higgins richardson stanton vey jensen miller and vibrate need to be looked at in big deals ....you need to get players from teams that are looking for players that will improve them...in return we get pieces of the puzzle

From the onset last year I did not like the hiring of this management group and to a lesser degree WD as head coach. This is a very precarious time in our franchise - we need to replace core players with younger players - that is perhaps the most difficult situation any management group could confront. I did and still do not like the idea of having rookies (Linden and Benning) trying to undertake such a difficult task.

Unfortunately, every time I hear Benning he makes me cringe more and more. The Sbisa deal of course was horrible. But when he explains his reasoning it makes him sound even worse. Even if he believe Sbisa is good for whatever reason I have yet to hear him actually explain why it was so important to make that signing during the regular season.

I just hope Benning's scouting abilities are as advertised although I am skeptical again on this point. Buffalo's drafting record was average when he their head scout and when he was in Boston their drafting was below average. Of course he didn't have final say on who was drafted so I am holding out that he made good recommendations which weren't actualized.

why was the sbisa deal horrible?

[stawns]

In the case of Bieksa, it's addition by subtraction. Hamhuis isn't who he used to be either.

I just hope JB doesn't think Luca "braindead" Sbisa is the answer to our defense or that Nick "Cement Skates" Bonino is the answer to 2C.

Too bad 'heart and soul' doesn't amend for how bad of a defenseman he is nowadays.

Hamhuis took a while to get his game back after a serious injury, ut in the playoffs he was getting back to his old self and in the WHC he looks great. He'll be fine for a few mor eyears.

[Nuckin Kingsly]

Hamhuis took a while to get his game back after a serious injury, ut in the playoffs he was getting back to his old self and in the WHC he looks great. He'll be fine for a few mor eyears.

Yup exactly, absolutely no reason to trade hammer, unless we are clear winners in the trade.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

KB3 must remain as a Canuck....he is the heart and soul and the identity of this Vancouver team. Without KB3, the Canuck is nothing.

Flames fans were saying the same thing about Iggy, “we can’t trade our heart and soul players, Iggy should retire a flame”

Two years later flames are better off because of it. A new player, Gio, stepped up and took the leadership role. This opportunity wasn’t their if Iggy was still on the team. Sometimes it’s hard to see, but shaking the pot and watching what happens have greater effects than just letting the pot go stale.

[Goal:thecup]

Chill out dude, it's his opinion....

People who use the word troll make me think they're 15 years old..

I don't think Benning is that great of a scout either. Was nothing special in Buffalo or Boston and Vey, Clendening, Sautner, etc all look pretty meh imo.

We'll see what he does this off season. If we still have all our vets and Matthias somehow gets re-signed, then I won't have very much faith in him.

He did have a good 1st year as a GM though.

[Ok, you're right, I should have just put him on ignore instead of pointing out another fishy post.

I am not the only one who thinks this guy is a troll though; check out the responses to his other posts.]

You are most welcome to your opinion of JB's scouting ability although I am in complete opposition to it and think that the examples given are pretty "meh" themselves:

Linden Vey gave good and needed service this year, improved and showed promise of more improvement. He also fit into a gaping age-hole in the development system and cost only a very late 2nd round pick (50th overall). He will be in tough to stay in the lineup this year (unless we get a lot of injuries again) but will be given a chance to compete and show improvement, and is still a trade-able asset.

Adam Clendening also gave good service this year with all the injuries to our D and lack of RD overall, and was acquired for next to nothing (5th round pick).

This is actually an example of good management (buy low, sell high) as Forsling, who is no Erik Karlsson, showed well at the WJC,and JB did very well to sell this 5th round pick while his value was jacked up by that performance.

AC also led all U18 Tourney defensemen in points in 2010, fits into that same age-hole, and will be given a chance to stay as a 6-7 D, and is also still a trade-able asset.

Ashton Sautner will be 21 later this month (so, same age-hole), went undrafted but captained his team to winning the 2014 Memorial Cup (showing leadership), has decent size at 6'1" 200lbs, and was signed as a free agent thereby not costing any player assets to acquire.

I think it is premature to assume Matthias, Richardson, and several others are going to be re-signed but share your apprehension concerning misplacing loyalty to core players.

Where I differ is that I like all of JB's moves so far and look forward to seeing what he does with what he's got.

He's on record saying he wants to acquire some more picks, more prospects, and more young players to flesh out the farm system so I assume that means some vets will have to go.

With all of his acquisitions this year and the player assets he inherited, JB has a full quiver with which to target picks and players in trades, and I am really looking forward to his next moves.

[baumerman77]

It's fine to question his work this season - it's another entirely to question the competency of a GM, which was your post was about.

You deserved to get called out for that, even though you did say that you'd hold out your opinion on that.

You seem to think that he was the GM on those teams (Buffalo, Boston etc). He was the AGM, so the GM may or may not have the pressure of selecting someone else that he has seen.

You focus on the bad but never on the good. Benning has been scouting WHL games all game long. He knows the young players and this has been covered extensively, to make sure that he knows which players that he's getting back.

He traded Mallet (a terrible, terrible over-aged Gillis pick in the 2nd round) to NYI for a big giant defenseman who is making a difference on the Utica team. Did I mention that Mallet played in the ECHL? No I haven't. That was a good trade.

The Baertschi pick was excellent, as well as the Conacher one. Both have made BIG statements in their games in Utica. If you don't follow Utica games, you wouldn't know how good they are. He's made sure that the farm team is being taken care of, even if the main team may or may not make it all the way.

There was no trade that he could've done that would've helped this team in overachieving. Traded Kesler away, which was a difficult but necessary trade - Bonino (2M contract) and Sbisa (a physical defenseman).

In addition, Kassian has been given chances to succeed and he has. That's been a Benning approach into how he was handled.

You're correct.

I should clarify that I don't think all he has done was bad. I think Baertschi trade was good. I also thought Tanev's extension was great. I liked the Clendening trade as well. And I know his hand was forced with the Kesler trade (although I would have preferred Bonino and the 10th pick instead).

As I said I am mixed about his actions (trades, signings, etc). However, the more I hear the reasons for his actions the more concerned I become. A lot of his rhetoric is about "intangibles" or rather latent variables (concepts that are difficult to measure directly) such as physicality, leadership, sandpaper, heart, etc. No doubt these things are important but the problem that it is hard to rank players based on these traits. Does Dorsett have more grit than Prust? Does Iginla have more or less leadership than Toews? In a sport and a position (GM) that is dependent on ranking players in comparison to each other, intangibles shouldn't be the trump more directly measurable aspects of the game, especially when it is for more than a couple million (a low paid fourth liner or 6/7 dman who is cheaply signed because of intangibles is a different story).

I was excited when Benning cited advanced stats as a reason for the Tanev deal. But then he completely negated and went against analytic insight with the Sbisa deal.

why was the sbisa deal horrible?

Sbisa's extension was an over-payment from a traditional stats, advanced stats, and eye test standpoint. Even Bob Mckenzie had to clarify that it was $3.6 mil per year for 3 years and not $3.6 total over 3 years. Many other traditional media members and well as the analytics blogsphere noted that it was an overpayment.

Some people think that Sbisa is worth or could be worth his new $3.6 mil per year contract. However, even to these people the timing was very odd. Benning signed him during the season, he could have waited until after the post-season (to see how he performed), he could have waited until after the draft (when their is a lot of trade movement), he could have waited until after free agency (to keep his money and his options open) and lastly he could of went to arbitration where he could have signed Sbisa for much less based on the criteria the arbitrators use for assigning players worth (however in the case of arbitration he would not have been able to sign him for three years).

[TOMapleLaughs]

Flames fans were saying the same thing about Iggy, we cant trade our heart and soul players, Iggy should retire a flame

Two years later flames are better off because of it. A new player, Gio, stepped up and took the leadership role. This opportunity wasnt their if Iggy was still on the team. Sometimes its hard to see, but shaking the pot and watching what happens have greater effects than just letting the pot go stale.

If only we had somebody, a clear franchise-level defensive prospect for instance, who could take over the identity of our defense instantly...

Gee. I wonder who that guy could be?

[TOMapleLaughs]

Should be an interesting draft. I'd expect more moves for sure and it looks like the team is gearing up to deal Bieksa, (who won't say it, but probably wants out anyway, really.)

Higgins and perhaps Burrows are probably aproachable too. NTC's are meaningless in a transitional phase. So is losing in round one of the playoffs.

[VegasCanuck]

I expect JB to be pretty active again at the draft. Maybe not as many moves as last year, but I think he'll be out there horse trading again and will probably pickup another pick or two as the weekend goes on.

[Dazzle]

You're correct.

I should clarify that I don't think all he has done was bad. I think Baertschi trade was good. I also thought Tanev's extension was great. I liked the Clendening trade as well. And I know his hand was forced with the Kesler trade (although I would have preferred Bonino and the 10th pick instead).

As I said I am mixed about his actions (trades, signings, etc). However, the more I hear the reasons for his actions the more concerned I become. A lot of his rhetoric is about "intangibles" or rather latent variables (concepts that are difficult to measure directly) such as physicality, leadership, sandpaper, heart, etc. No doubt these things are important but the problem that it is hard to rank players based on these traits. Does Dorsett have more grit than Prust? Does Iginla have more or less leadership than Toews? In a sport and a position (GM) that is dependent on ranking players in comparison to each other, intangibles shouldn't be the trump more directly measurable aspects of the game, especially when it is for more than a couple million (a low paid fourth liner or 6/7 dman who is cheaply signed because of intangibles is a different story).

I was excited when Benning cited advanced stats as a reason for the Tanev deal. But then he completely negated and went against analytic insight with the Sbisa deal.

Sbisa's extension was an over-payment from a traditional stats, advanced stats, and eye test standpoint. Even Bob Mckenzie had to clarify that it was $3.6 mil per year for 3 years and not $3.6 total over 3 years. Many other traditional media members and well as the analytics blogsphere noted that it was an overpayment.

Some people think that Sbisa is worth or could be worth his new $3.6 mil per year contract. However, even to these people the timing was very odd. Benning signed him during the season, he could have waited until after the post-season (to see how he performed), he could have waited until after the draft (when their is a lot of trade movement), he could have waited until after free agency (to keep his money and his options open) and lastly he could of went to arbitration where he could have signed Sbisa for much less based on the criteria the arbitrators use for assigning players worth (however in the case of arbitration he would not have been able to sign him for three years).

I really think that this post clarifies what your original post didn't say (or meant to say) and is a much better post.

My post was a bit cursory when it came to details - in that "forced hand" deal, he did pick up McCann (24th overall from ANA) and he's been talked about A LOT in Juniors.

Virtanen, McCann, Shinkaruk (Gillis pick), Gaunce (another first round Gillis pick) - not to mention other Gillis' picks/signings are working together to form a formidable group of forwards that could contribute into the main roster. Horvat was a good Gillis pick and Horvat himself has made that pick look even better with the emergence of his stellar play. Other notables include Subban and Hutton, but I'm missing a lot here. Tanev was a Gillis find.

Gillis has done good things for the franchise and Benning is starting to put his signature into it. Virtanen/McCann have had good junior seasons. Young players are being given chances to succeed and this is particularly emphasized by Benning. His scouting background and experience will or SHOULD help improve this team down the road. If not, he will be scrutinized.

With Sbisa, he is 'only' 25 and already has NHL experience. Yes, he's made plenty of mistakes, especially when paired together with Bieksa (whooops). He should improve within 3 years. He brings an element of physicality not featured within our current players. Hamhuis is not physical but a workhorse (he can be physical but Sbisa's game is clean and hard-hitting).

It's not a bad idea to re-tool instead of rebuilding. We'll see what the Sedins can do for next year, but they weren't the reasons for why the Canucks didn't succeed this year.

[LaBamba]

Because he's on the small side. If he was 6'2 & 210, he would've been signed the day he was drafted.

People don't realize that he is a major, major longshot to make the NHL.

Lighting it up in Jr has nothing to do with being able to handle a big presence in front of the net.

On average It takes a normal sized D-man +\- 8 years from his draft year to max out potential. It could take Subban 10. 1 highly doubt we will be that patient with a 5-8er. Lots of other bigger/ taller options to develop into PP guyz.

I personally have no use for a midget D-man.