Ownership and Fans Disconnect.

[THERETOOL]

That bolded line shows how absolute ignorant you are on this subject. Must be easy to sit there and recommend tanking when it might not even work when it isnt your hundreds of millions of dollars that will be lost.

the fact you took what i have said out of context proves that you are ignorant in more than just hockey . I said nothing about tanking .. your a pretty tough keyboard warrior eh ?

[TimberWolf]

I would like to see one CDC "fan" that would be okay with us sucking for a few years write me a $12,000 cheque for my tickets. Until you're prepared to do that SHUTUP. Staying competitive and creating a winning culture and infusing youth that earn the right to play is the only way we should be retooling the Canucks.

Money talks and BS walks.

This challenge makes no sense.

Why would anyone paying for you to go to games prove any kind of loyalty? One could equally say that if you are content with being a middling team then you should send everyone on this board seasons tickets. Money talks and all whatever you were trying to say if that's the route you want to go.

Now if you said something along the lines of posting receipts that they attended games and still supporting the team, that would be something but giving you free anything doesn't prove anything to anyone.

Oh and I would be fine with maintaining a winning culture if we actually had one though I have yet to see much evidence that young players that were drafted as winners already need that kind of coddling. Didn't hurt guys like Kane and Toews too much to be inserted into the Hawks losing team.

I personally do not support a tank but I also do not support putting the same useless core back out there. Time to live and die by the new blood and if that gets us early success then great. If not, well at least they would be playing hard.

Anyways, since only money talks in your book then I'll be expecting my payment to prove you stand by what you are saying.

[Baggins]

This challenge makes no sense.

Why would anyone paying for you to go to games prove any kind of loyalty? One could equally say that if you are content with being a middling team then you should send everyone on this board seasons tickets. Money talks and all whatever you were trying to say if that's the route you want to go.

I believe he was saying "buy my season tickets from me" as opposed to "pay for my season tickets for me to go".

[Mustapha]

I think the main cause of the fan disconnect is due to the way the Canucks finished the season.

It's nice to point to the regular season 2nd place finish and the fact that so many vets had rebounded statistically, but it doesn't quench what I consider to be some underlying reasons the team still leaves a sour taste in the mouth of many fans.

1.)Despite the improvement over last season's implosion, they lost in the playoffs in a spectacular, but embarrassing fashion, just like the previous years before 2014. The Canucks had their lunch handed to them by Calgary in Game 6, and fans are tired of watching the opposing team outwork the Canucks in big playoff games. It's been a trend with this group of players going all the way back to 2009. Even the 2011 team nearly blew a 3-0 series lead in the first round, and they were arguably the most talented Canucks team ever assembled.

2.) Canucks are not going to be able to keep up with their rivals. Nothing in sports is guaranteed, but if we look at the Pacific Division, the two Alberta teams are poised to improve on the previous season, and the youth and talent on Edmonton and Calgary makes Vancouver pale in comparison. Assuming LA and Anaheim remain competitive (Both rosters are very deep), unless one of Edmonton/Calgary falters, there will be no spot for the Canucks next season. The future looks relatively grim for the next 3-5 years.

3.)Canucks have no superstar. (Expanding on the second point). Fans want to see a hungry, young exciting player. We all know what the Sedins can still do and they are world class playing their game, but it will wear on the home fans to see young star players like Gaudreau and Bennett, Nugent-Hopkins and McDavid and whatnot roll in to Rogers Arena, and the Canucks have little to answer them. Yes there are a couple prospects, but that's all they are at this point. Even Bo Horvat, who was a key player for the team in the second half of the season, isn't the explosive offensive player you would see from the Oilers or Flames. There is no stud defenseman here either. There's no Doughty, no Giordano, not even a Vatanen or Lindholm.

The Canucks were different than the other 7 teams that made the playoffs this year. St. Louis, Nashville, Calgary, Anaheim, Chicago, Minnesota, even Winnipeg all had leaders in the 23-28 age range, guys that contributed all season long and into the playoffs. The Canucks were lead by the same group that has repeatedly shown little desire and urgency in the playoffs in previous seasons, and looked even older and slower this season against a Calgary team that had its fair share of warts. Bo Horvat was a breath of fresh air, but the other younger guys on the team (Sbisa and Vey are good examples) did not show the same leadership and desire to play at a higher level that you see on other teams with several young players.

[peaches5]

Alright then, we don't need to tank because we're already in the basement since the West is full of juggernauts.

First off I said nothing about tanking. Second most of the playoff teams in the west 5/8 I would consider juggernauts. 2 others who missed the playoffs for whatever reason in LA and Colorado. There are still 8 teams in the west that are either good, mediocre or just flat out awful. There is a big difference between 9th in the west and 15th.

This team needs to trade away expiring assets instead of keeping them for "playoff runs" which the majority of fans know this team has basically no shot at winning at cup as it is. It's like the management is trying to convince fans that this team can compete in the west when everyone is well aware that they can't. These super hardcore delusional fans that think this team can win are not in rogers arena. You know why? because they are not paying the absurd ticket prices.

[cowboy644]

RonMexico was sort of on the right path.The problem with most opinions so far is everyone on here is not willing to let the Canucks pull on a rope with a knot at each end.One knot is the team we have and the other is the prospects and they just simply want to exchange one for the other.By that I mean,what happened to trading for some players for quality now that will span the transition to said prospects.Also people, some of the young players in the farm that you want up might not even work out.

Look,the biggest problem this team has is it is so damn soft.Damn I've never seen so many heads on a swivel in the playoffs like the Canucks this year.The flames didn't fear anybody on this team.From what I have heard and seen most of the prospects or rookies don't seem to be overly physical either.Do I agree we could tank and get a bunch of smaller skilled high draft picks,sure.The Chicago model.Will ownership and management do it ?Nope.Get past it and understand It.

To my point.There are whispers that Lucic might be available this summer.He's 26 years old .6'3 235 and had back to back 60 point seasons in 2011 and 2012.He can be a nasty player to play against.Bertuzzi 2.0 skill wise.Skip the Moore stuff.They don't come up often.Should we over pay with this years first.Yes.We got Baerchi this year.Add a prospect maybe?These are the players that have to be brought in for size,toughness,skill and more importantly,transition.Trader JIm has Bostons ear.If it's true about Lucic then he should be on the phone to Boston as soon as it's allowed after the playoffs.

My last point,.I truly believe Benning is going to earn his keep by drafting.in later rounds.If Baertchi is as good as they say then Benning had to give up the second rounder this year.It was like getting a high up first rounder this year.Would he have liked this years second pick,absolutely.I really believe when he is out scouting he isn't sitting with the other scouts checking out first rounders.He's trying to mine gold on the other side of the mountain for the later rounds.Any of his scouts can watch the top end talent.

[aqua59]

It has become quite evident that the Canucks fans and especially ownership are on different paths when it comes to thinking what is best for the Canucks.

The majority of the fan base seems quite accepting of a heavy youth movement, a few non playoff years and some short term pain in order to grow and hope for the future.

Meanwhile ownership and management seems hell bent on making an ill advised playoff push each year just to cash in on the home game ravenue. I get it, money rules all but it is such a short sighted approach. It's quite evident that being able to draft well in today's NHL is the most prudent way to build a successful franchise (Sorry Edmonton...wait where is McDavid going?) getting eliminated in the first or second round and picking in the 18-23 range each year is going to make that success harder to achieve.

When your playoff games are barely selling out, even after you reduced the prices it speaks volumes to the faith the fans have in your product and what direction they truly want. In a division that has a powerhouse like Anaheim (Yes, we all still hate Kes), a consistent cup contender like LA and 3 teams filled with incredible youthful talent in Edm, Cal and Phx on the rise, its only going to get harder, so why keep this irrational dream alive?

Let the young players learn from the Sedins while they still can.

I hope the youth movement starts soon and the ownership can see the bigger picture.

I'm wondering if you're not a trollster. That said many Vancouver fans or fans of any other team selectively listen to the mandate of their respective ownership and management .

Management and ownership are tied at the hip. Ownership sets the course on managements assessment. Thus moving in one direction.

Lets talk Edmonton for a second. Management and Ownership. Finally ownership figured out they couldn't risk McDavid being handled by their old management group and got some credible guys in to run the show. Until now Edmonton has been nothing short of inept. Their so called hot high draft picks have been hanging in suspended development for how long? They have direction because ownership woke up. I'm glad too, I like a strong division.

As far as Vancouver making the playoffs or not makes a big difference in ownerships pockets.Are you footing the bill? Are you an advanced business person earning billions?

It's hard for me to listen to fans bitching and moaning about how others spend their money. People that know how to build sustainable finance. Ownership in Vancouver's case admitted last year simply by cleaning house that change needed to be made. This isn't a board game or computer game.

Some people just don't listen nor do they get it.

[Honky Cat]

RonMexico was sort of on the right path.The problem with most opinions so far is everyone on here is not willing to let the Canucks pull on a rope with a knot at each end.One knot is the team we have and the other is the prospects and they just simply want to exchange one for the other.By that I mean,what happened to trading for some players for quality now that will span the transition to said prospects.Also people, some of the young players in the farm that you want up might not even work out.

Look,the biggest problem this team has is it is so damn soft.Damn I've never seen so many heads on a swivel in the playoffs like the Canucks this year.The flames didn't fear anybody on this team.From what I have heard and seen most of the prospects or rookies don't seem to be overly physical either.Do I agree we could tank and get a bunch of smaller skilled high draft picks,sure.The Chicago model.Will ownership and management do it ?Nope.Get past it and understand It.

To my point.There are whispers that Lucic might be available this summer.He's 26 years old .6'3 235 and had back to back 60 point seasons in 2011 and 2012.He can be a nasty player to play against.Bertuzzi 2.0 skill wise.Skip the Moore stuff.They don't come up often.Should we over pay with this years first.Yes.We got Baerchi this year.Add a prospect maybe?These are the players that have to be brought in for size,toughness,skill and more importantly,transition.Trader JIm has Bostons ear.If it's true about Lucic then he should be on the phone to Boston as soon as it's allowed after the playoffs.

My last point,.I truly believe Benning is going to earn his keep by drafting.in later rounds.If Baertchi is as good as they say then Benning had to give up the second rounder this year.It was like getting a high up first rounder this year.Would he have liked this years second pick,absolutely.I really believe when he is out scouting he isn't sitting with the other scouts checking out first rounders.He's trying to mine gold on the other side of the mountain for the later rounds.Any of his scouts can watch the top end talent.

Back in 1980..the Canucks traded Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago to the Leafs for Tiger Williams and Jerry Butler..The Canucks GM obviously thought his team lacked toughness and character..The Canucks did go on that dream run to the final in 82',which was an illusion by the time we played NYI....That trade (along with the Neely trade) probably set the team back 7 years..IMO..I would rather develop our own prospects than deal for a Milan Lucic.

[lmm]

Back in 1980..the Canucks traded Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago to the Leafs for Tiger Williams and Jerry Butler..The Canucks GM obviously thought his team lacked toughness and character..The Canucks did go on that dream run to the final in 82',which was an illusion by the time we played NYI....That trade (along with the Neely trade) probably set the team back 7 years..IMO..I would rather develop our own prospects than deal for a Milan Lucic.

which is kind of funny if you think about it, tough guys is probably the one area the Canucks have held their own historically.

Snepts

Smyl

Coxe

Gino

Butcher

Bieksa

Rypien

Its the other aspects of the game that they have never really had more than the occasional homegrown star.

[48MPHSlapShot]

Team's not gonna tank. Both Linden and Benning has said as much. It's time for Tanknation to die a slow and painful death.

[lmm]

I don't think its about tank or not tank

its about who management has brought in that you think we'll still want 5 years from now?

[TimberWolf]

I'm wondering if you're not a trollster. That said many Vancouver fans or fans of any other team selectively listen to the mandate of their respective ownership and management .

Management and ownership are tied at the hip. Ownership sets the course on managements assessment. Thus moving in one direction.

Lets talk Edmonton for a second. Management and Ownership. Finally ownership figured out they couldn't risk McDavid being handled by their old management group and got some credible guys in to run the show. Until now Edmonton has been nothing short of inept. Their so called hot high draft picks have been hanging in suspended development for how long? They have direction because ownership woke up. I'm glad too, I like a strong division.

As far as Vancouver making the playoffs or not makes a big difference in ownerships pockets.Are you footing the bill? Are you an advanced business person earning billions?

It's hard for me to listen to fans bitching and moaning about how others spend their money. People that know how to build sustainable finance. Ownership in Vancouver's case admitted last year simply by cleaning house that change needed to be made. This isn't a board game or computer game.

Some people just don't listen nor do they get it.

I don't support tanking but if attendance is your chief concern it's already spiraling downwards

Yup, the fans wont watch a team lose on purpose but they wont watch lazy rich floaters either. This is historically proven like the late 90's when we had the leagues most expensive powerplay (that couldn't score) and the fans refusing to support it for one of many examples

I can't guarentee the fans will come out if we ice a younger core next season but I am pretty sure they will stay home if the same team is starting the season that ended it.

As I said to start, I don't support tanking but I do support trying to win with the younger players and moving some vets out. The old guys got more chances then they could ask for and they have not proven they deserve another.

[aGENT]

Back in 1980..the Canucks traded Rick Vaive and Bill Derlago to the Leafs for Tiger Williams and Jerry Butler..The Canucks GM obviously thought his team lacked toughness and character..The Canucks did go on that dream run to the final in 82',which was an illusion by the time we played NYI....That trade (along with the Neely trade) probably set the team back 7 years..IMO..I would rather develop our own prospects than deal for a Milan Lucic.

Never mind that we already have grittier and/or bigger bodied, "rougher" prospects coming up over the next few years to add to Kassian, Dorsett, Sbisa etc. Virtanen is no wilting flower, Cassels is a PITA to play against, Gaunce is learning to use his large frame to battle in Utica, McCann's feistiness/attitude remind me of Kesler (with more natural talent to boot). Then we've got the likes of Pedan, Tyramkin and Cederholm coming up on D.

Doesn't sound to me like we need to spend assets acquiring Lucic in trade and then spending $6m+ on him....

[TimberWolf]

Never mind that we already have grittier and/or bigger bodied, "rougher" prospects coming up over the next few years to add to Kassian, Dorsett, Sbisa etc. Virtanen is no wilting flower, Cassels is a PITA to play against, Gaunce is learning to use his large frame to battle in Utica, McCann's feistiness/attitude remind me of Kesler (with more natural talent to boot). Then we've got the likes of Pedan, Tyramkin and Cederholm coming up on D.

Doesn't sound to me like we need to spend assets acquiring Lucic in trade and then spending $6m+ on him....

Not to mention that there are antics you can get away with only on a select few teams as Torts found out the hard way.

[chrisbanks]

the disconnect is with the fans who don't see the big picture ..its all well and good to say oh we should focus on the future and not worry too much about playoffs right now.. but then reality hits..

here is what happens when our team goes a run of not making the playoffs.

1. attendance drops . Our players get paid in American currency, our building brings in Canadian currency. Aqua man will start losing money and will take away the freedom to spend to the cap and we will have to be on a budget. (canucks don't have the luxury of being in a city where the only thing to do is go to the game like Calgary and Edmonton )

2. Stop becoming an attractive landing place for high end FAs. As much as people want to focus on drafting and developing, you still need to be able to go out and sign proven talent to put in your line up (see edmontons problem.. tons of drafted talent that is missing those glue guys.. problem is every year they either have to over pay to get them in or most of the time cant sign them at all. and they are stuck with a ton of young talent that has no direction)

3. Miracle Come back. That's what we would need just like the last time we clawed out of the gutter..brian burke working miracles on a budget to keep the team in Vancouver while putting one of the most exciting ,hard hitting, fast skating teams on the ice that got asses back in the seats...chances that another gm could pull that off again are slim because even burke got extremely lucky that the WCE turned out to be one of the best lines in the league for a handful of years 2/3rds of the line we picked up for nothing.

I would rather it not get to point number 3, and im pretty sure benning and linden don't want it to get to that point either so they will continue to stay competitive while making moves trying to improve the team. You cant say points 1 and 2 wont happen , because it has , we have already lived through it all....

Not to mention the benefits of our young guys getting playoff experience and coming to the rink in a happy environment ready to play. losing is no fun for anybody and no player is ever looking down the road in a contact sport like this, horvats career could be over in 2 or 3 years sh!t happens.

[Gollumpus]

It has become quite evident that the Canucks fans and especially ownership are on different paths when it comes to thinking what is best for the Canucks.

The majority of the fan base seems quite accepting of a heavy youth movement, a few non playoff years and some short term pain in order to grow and hope for the future.

Meanwhile ownership and management seems hell bent on making an ill advised playoff push each year just to cash in on the home game ravenue. I get it, money rules all but it is such a short sighted approach. It's quite evident that being able to draft well in today's NHL is the most prudent way to build a successful franchise (Sorry Edmonton...wait where is McDavid going?) getting eliminated in the first or second round and picking in the 18-23 range each year is going to make that success harder to achieve.

When your playoff games are barely selling out, even after you reduced the prices it speaks volumes to the faith the fans have in your product and what direction they truly want. In a division that has a powerhouse like Anaheim (Yes, we all still hate Kes), a consistent cup contender like LA and 3 teams filled with incredible youthful talent in Edm, Cal and Phx on the rise, its only going to get harder, so why keep this irrational dream alive?

Let the young players learn from the Sedins while they still can.

I hope the youth movement starts soon and the ownership can see the bigger picture.

Well, Aquilini will run his team as he likes. If you (or anyone else) doesn't like it then you can stop supporing the Canucks.

You may make a comment about how you will stop supporting the Canucks if they don't do things your way, and that is your perogative. The amount of money the Canucks will lose from not having your support will likely be far less than what they would lose if the team is run as you suggest.

regards,

G.

[Mustapha]

Well, Aquilini will run his team as he likes. If you (or anyone else) doesn't like it then you can stop supporing the Canucks.

You may make a comment about how you will stop supporting the Canucks if they don't do things your way, and that is your perogative. The amount of money the Canucks will lose from not having your support will likely be far less than what they would lose if the team is run as you suggest.

regards,

G.

Leafs management has this attitude. Leafs management also changes like every 3 years or so.

The Canucks really don't want to be one of those sports teams that thrives even if the team is literally crap for decades, like Toronto is.

This attitude will ensure we will all be dead long before the Canucks win a championship.

Also, unrelated, but Mike Babcock would be a moron to coach the Leafs, even for 250 million dollars.

[Gollumpus]

Leafs management has this attitude. Leafs management also changes like every 3 years or so.

The Canucks really don't want to be one of those sports teams that thrives even if the team is literally crap for decades, like Toronto is.

This attitude will ensure we will all be dead long before the Canucks win a championship.

Also, unrelated, but Mike Babcock would be a moron to coach the Leafs, even for 250 million dollars.

1.) The discussion is on "owner vs fan" views of how the team should proceed.

Management is not really an issue here as team results suggest that the Canucks' management has been superior to that of the Leafs. Yes, Gillis/Benning > Burke/Nonis. Benning will likely be as good or better than who the Leafs get to replace Nonis. If he isn't, well lucky for the Leafs.

2.) Your comments support a "what should happen" position from a fan perspective. So we are clear here, I am not saying this position is wrong. Some feel the team should bite the bullet, tank a few seasons while playing the young guys, and hopefully get even more (and hopefully better) young guys. In the end, the Canucks will have a Cup winning team. Hasn't worked out for a number of teams who appear to be going that route (at least so far).

Some believe this is how Chicago got to where they are, but it isn't. What really made the Hawks the team they are was a change in ownership. This new owner (the son of the former owner) agreed to spend money, and this is why Toews and Kane are still in Chicago.

3.) Aquillini wants to make a profit, and I don't blame him for that. He would also like the Canucks to be successful on the ice while they are making him a profit. I don't blame him for that either. Some people believe he should take a big hit to his bank account so that his team gets re-built as they see fit. I have a problem with this.

If he can have the team be successful while doing a re-build, then why shouldn't he press team management to re-build in this fashion? The Canucks have a number of good, young players with a lot of potential. If the team uses them as a base, and then adds to the roster with a number of other players via trade and UFA signings, why is that such a bad thing?

Other than it's not how some fans want it done?

regards,

G.

[anaron]

 

1.) The discussion is on "owner vs fan" views of how the team should proceed.

Management is not really an issue here as team results suggest that the Canucks' management has been superior to that of the Leafs. Yes, Gillis/Benning > Burke/Nonis. Benning will likely be as good or better than who the Leafs get to replace Nonis. If he isn't, well lucky for the Leafs.

2.) Your comments support a "what should happen" position from a fan perspective. So we are clear here, I am not saying this position is wrong. Some feel the team should bite the bullet, tank a few seasons while playing the young guys, and hopefully get even more (and hopefully better) young guys. In the end, the Canucks will have a Cup winning team. Hasn't worked out for a number of teams who appear to be going that route (at least so far).

Some believe this is how Chicago got to where they are, but it isn't. What really made the Hawks the team they are was a change in ownership. This new owner (the son of the former owner) agreed to spend money, and this is why Toews and Kane are still in Chicago.

3.) Aquillini wants to make a profit, and I don't blame him for that. He would also like the Canucks to be successful on the ice while they are making him a profit. I don't blame him for that either. Some people believe he should take a big hit to his bank account so that his team gets re-built as they see fit. I have a problem with this.

If he can have the team be successful while doing a re-build, then why shouldn't he press team management to re-build in this fashion? The Canucks have a number of good, young players with a lot of potential. If the team uses them as a base, and then adds to the roster with a number of other players via trade and UFA signings, why is that such a bad thing?

Other than it's not how some fans want it done?

regards,

G.

 

Out of curiosity, what would you consider a successful season? Myself and many fans DO NOT CARE about regular season success when absolutely no progress is made when it really counts. I was quite happy with this seasons turnaround until this team once again showed their most consistent play comes in April, and it is consistently subpar.

While you are correct about Chicago's new ownership, you conveniently downplay that without their high draft picks ( Towes, Kane, Seabrook, Crawford, as well as early 2nd rounders including Bolland & Keith).. That team, no matter how much money the owners were willing to invest would be mediocre.

Where would Vancouver be without the Sedins?

I do not support a full tank , but I will not stand behind the same line up of Core Veterans that have failed to show up for the playoffs.

One last point to all the fans worried about the Canucks losing money if we arent competitive... We already are losing money with this 100 point team that made the playoffs, our fan base is tired of losing and thankfully unlike the Oilers and Leafs zombies, they vote with their wallets which forces management to act. How is it in any way a bad thing that the overpriced Canucks tickets are not selling out? Maybe I can watch more than 1 game a year live.

[lmm]

But G

the Hawks and Leafs are good comparisons because they have or are living through owner meddling.

As you pointed out the Hawks improved when ownership changes and the internal cap was lifted.

The Leafs failed under Ballard and his intense meddling and are now failing while being run by MLSE which also imparts too much control over the manager's decisions.

regards L