Offensive Threat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The general consensus is Hersh's article is full of contradictions and very vague sources who would have not only not had first hand information but likely not second or even third hand. His credibility has been going downhill as he has been heading towards conspiracy theory type stories of late and this is the worst one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaBestPlaceOnEarth Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 This might be buried under the 9/11 truth telling down here, but there's something very interesting about Hersh's allegations, which I have just read in full and followed up on somewhat. This is not the first time such allegations have been raised. http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/59088/obamas-osama-cover-up/ In this blog post from May 2011, shortly after the Abbotabad raid, rabble-rouser/talking head Larry C. Johnson parses the same USG "cover story" as Hersh does, and reaches many of the same conclusions. It does not appear Mr. Johnson followed up this lead quite as extensively as Hersh did. http://www.thespywhobilledme.com/the_spy_who_billed_me/2011/08/bin-laden-turned-in-by-informant-courier-was-cover-story.html http://www.thespywhobilledme.com/the_spy_who_billed_me/2011/08/the-real-story-of-how-the-us-found-bin-laden-raises-some-key-questions-namely-why-did-the-saudis-pay-the-pakistanis-to-kee.html Here, in August 2011, Dr. RJ Hillhouse follows up with much more detailed and penetrating analysis. Again, we're talking more than four years ago here, and essentially the same thing Hersh is saying now. He obviously laid out his argument much more carefully but the main points are the same. The question I ask myself is, does this show that Hersh was just picking up some loose threads of conspiracy talk, stitching them together into something more compelling? Or does it indicate that there is more to this than mainstream commentators are acknowledging? The official reaction has been incredibly dismissive, and well-connected media types like Peter Bergen have really thrashed Hersh before this thing is even a day old. But this background makes me think there might be more to it than meets the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't understand how anyone can believe the official story OR any subsequent stories/articles are 100% accurate. I have read every scrap of info I could get, and I see inaccuracies and conjecture from every angle. To me it's the same as saying 9/11 was an inside job. With no definition of inside job, or the context to apply the definition, the statement is moot. The CIA had their hand in deep in the Bin Laden assassination and it will be decades before the real story comes out. It surprises me that our society can completely ignore historical precedent when it comes to events like this. The minute I hear anyone tell me they "know" this or that, I tune out. If you are not taking a healthy balance of facts and opinions from every angle of the debate, and focusing on the congruent information, then you are straight up believing what you want to be true. Conspiracies are real, but they are rarely as advertised. Absence of information is never proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 So they covered it up to protect an informant, why wouldn't they? obviously the CIA would hope they get more informants for other things in the future and if their informants are assassinated after every mission that would make it so no body is going to give them any intelligence. As far as tossing body parts out of a helicopter, I mean there are some straight up killers in the US armed forces so I could see them doing that to someone they despise and I could also see that being a PR nightmare if it got out. Deny it publicly and reprimand those who did it privately would be the best option really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't believe in anything anymore. Bin Laden couldve been just be a hologram for all i know. I just thought it was wierd they would dispose the body and so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The Bin Ladens in Sweeden in the 70's. He's circled. I'd tap his....aunt??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 They still killed him. If Paki gov knew where he is, then they are housing a terrorist. Certainly likely some high military guy knew, but it just shows they ratted him out. If it is true, then they would have to lie about it in order to prevent Paki gov from being blamed by other Muslim sympathizing bin laden. This story is not really relevant or convincing. If he said the assassination didn't happen, that's another story. Throwing his body parts out of chopter is no big deal. If they did it, they would have to lie about it to prevent mass hysteria from bin laden followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiboynux4lifee******* Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yet she was murdered after hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm OOoOOoOoOoOOoOoOoOOoOoOooOoOoOoOoOO stick to hockey guys lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Does anyone really care anymore? The guy is dead. They used some other means to catch him that doesn't match zero dark thirty. Thank you. Who cares if they jazzed up the story. Most of the time when fugitives are caught it's because somebody ratted them out. A lot of times, money is used to motivate the informers. Nothing to see here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The general consensus is Hersh's article is full of contradictions and very vague sources who would have not only not had first hand information but likely not second or even third hand. His credibility has been going downhill as he has been heading towards conspiracy theory type stories of late and this is the worst one yet. That's it. Just close your mind off to anything that could potentially mean your illusionary world is a falsehood. Just listen to your corporate media overlord and keep quiet. #PatriotismDoneRight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaBestPlaceOnEarth Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Things are rarely what they seem over there, the mysteries just seem to pile up over the years. We see Bhutto up above, who killed her and why? Who killed Zia, and why, or was it just an accident as it appeared? Who killed Abdullah Azzam, and why? What was the real story behind the Soviet incursion? Was Amin really a CIA asset or was that story itself a fake-out to try and induce Soviet action? Bin Laden's death is really one of the more straight-forward ones. Good on Hersh for at least trying to add a few more layers to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offensive Threat Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 That's it. Just close your mind off to anything that could potentially mean your illusionary world is a falsehood. Just listen to your corporate media overlord and keep quiet. #PatriotismDoneRight This is exactly what is wrong with conspiracy theorists. This^^^^. They arent interested in facts and reality. Their whole game is about feeling smugly superior to others by being privy to some inside information about the world and any information that contradicts that self satisfying land they live in is ignored or bent to fit their narrative. Its confirmation bias run amok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This is exactly what is wrong with conspiracy theorists. This^^^^. They arent interested in facts and reality. Their whole game is about feeling smugly superior to others by being privy to some inside information about the world and any information that contradicts that self satisfying land they live in is ignored or bent to fit their narrative. Its confirmation bias run amok. Yeah. The rest of the world a "sheeple", while those who buy into garbage like Loose Change" are the ones in the know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 That's it. Just close your mind off to anything that could potentially mean your illusionary world is a falsehood. Just listen to your corporate media overlord and keep quiet. #PatriotismDoneRight You got it. Just keep watching TV as they'll tell you all you need to know and what to believe. Oh how much simpler and easier life is when someone else does your thinking for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 This is exactly what is wrong with conspiracy theorists. This^^^^. They arent interested in facts and reality. Their whole game is about feeling smugly superior to others by being privy to some inside information about the world and any information that contradicts that self satisfying land they live in is ignored or bent to fit their narrative. Its confirmation bias run amok. Yeah. The rest of the world a "sheeple", while those who buy into garbage like Loose Change" are the ones in the know... Pejoratives, name-calling, prejudicial conjecture, and boatloads of logical fallacies are much more convincing... and placating to the anti-intellectual post-modern mind that operates on emotion. FYI -- there's no "inside information", it's called investigating for yourself, THINKING, and not simply unquestioningly gulping down the pablum that's spoon-fed to you. The problem is most people are simply too lazy to do so, and also too afraid at what they might find as it may pop the fictitious little bubble of a cocoon that they live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offensive Threat Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Pejoratives, name-calling, prejudicial conjecture, and boatloads of logical fallacies are much more convincing... and placating to the anti-intellectual post-modern mind that operates on emotion. FYI -- there's no "inside information", it's called investigating for yourself, THINKING, and not simply unquestioningly gulping down the pablum that's spoon-fed to you. The problem is most people are simply too lazy to do so, and also too afraid at what they might find as it may pop the fictitious little bubble of a cocoon that they live in. Actually it is the conspiracy theorists who are lazy. Oh sure, a few go out and do some leg work and heavy lifting but most just sit right where we are right now consuming the endless stream of media that is the conspiracy theory machine. "investigating for yourself" Dont make me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 The ex head of CIA telling telling the world America is wasting its time in the middle east. I wonder what other truths he might be willing to spill if he would not be murdered for revealing the some of them. The grand script of American propaganda knows no bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 The ex head of CIA telling telling the world America is wasting its time in the middle east. I wonder what other truths he might be willing to spill if he would not be murdered for revealing the some of them. The grand script of American propaganda knows no bounds. No-one needs a former spy to tell us this. Most people with a modicum of intelligence figured this out years ago. Unfortunately, it would appear that the word "intelligence" is oxymoronic when it comes to the acronym CIA, or the highest levels of government in North America, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 No-one needs a former spy to tell us this. Most people with a modicum of intelligence figured this out years ago. Unfortunately, it would appear that the word "intelligence" is oxymoronic when it comes to the acronym CIA, or the highest levels of government in North America, for that matter. Personally i think we need more whistle blowers to come forward with facts and bombard the media and expose the lies. How many people actually know what a CIA created asset really is ? Does the average American even want to admit this ? I wonder where that 9 billion or so to rebuild Iraq went ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Personally i think we need more whistle blowers to come forward with facts and bombard the media and expose the lies. How many people actually know what a CIA created asset really is ? Does the average American even want to admit this ? I wonder where that 9 billion or so to rebuild Iraq went ? Whistle blowers like Snowdon? I admire what the guy did, but the US government has pretty much destroyed his life and I doubt that you'll see too many people so altruistic that they'd sacrifice what he did. I think most people realize that Iraq was a fustercluck from the get go and hopefully will view the "official" story from guys like Rumsfeld and Dubya with a more jaundiced eye in the future. I think a big part of the problem is that there are in my mind, legitimate threats out there. Separating the justified battles from the unjustified ones is the trick. As you say, we need everyone to be involved in the process and we need to call BS on situations where it exists, instead of letting ourselves be cowed by buzzwords like Jihadist and terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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