Mayor Robertson Speculation Tax /Art Gallery Protest Over Housing Affordability

[inane]

Actually yes the government does have a responsibility to taxpayers and citizens. I don't know what this issue has to do with freedom, domecracy, or communism. It's entirely reasonable for citizens that live here, have jobs here, have family and friends here, pay taxes here, are members of the community and contribute to society here to expect the government to give them preferential treatment over foreigners. A lot of the people protesting are intelligent, hardworking professionals who don't want to uproot their entire lives and move somewhere else. Is that whining? What if "Vancouver" were replaced by "Canada" or "the World"?

True, but not everyone deserves or should or can live in Vancouver in single family homes.

[King_Canuckian]

Raising interest rates is done on a national level, and anywhere east of the Lower Mainland will inevitably suffer, even collapse with high interest rates. Yes, high interest rates will keep foreign investors away, but they will keep everyone away, all over Canada.

It also doesn't help that our dollar is weak compared to the American dollar. A $1 million home can be bought for $800,000 or so right now, and will only appreciate in value, either with a weakening dollar, or just the fact that Vancouver real estate is always appreciating.

However, it's a bit of a double-edged sword requesting a foreign ownership tax. Less foreign investors means more local homeowners, which would likely mean a higher population in Vancouver, more traffic congestion, etc, without an appropriate number of jobs available.

[etsen3]

True, but not everyone deserves or should or can live in Vancouver in single family homes.

I don't think anyone is saying that we should just hand out nice little houses to every single person who wants one. That's not even what this debate is about. This is about foreigners taking away resources from those who actually contribute to society here and have livelihoods at stake.

[grandmaster]

Actually yes the government does have a responsibility to taxpayers and citizens. I don't know what this issue has to do with freedom, domecracy, or communism. It's entirely reasonable for citizens that live here, have jobs here, have family and friends here, pay taxes here, are members of the community and contribute to society here to expect the government to give them preferential treatment over foreigners. A lot of the people protesting are intelligent, hardworking professionals who don't want to uproot their entire lives and move somewhere else. Is that whining? What if "Vancouver" were replaced by "Canada" or "the World"?

Really? Now you are worried that all of Canada or even the world becomes like Vancouver?

We will agree to disagree on government. There is no duty for them to help you live or buy here. It is a privilege, not a right. In fact, if government stepped and truly controlled this market, it is contrary to all fabrics of a free and democratic society. It is communism, a system that is extremely dangerous for corruption, hidden dictatorships and against the values that are the foundation for this nation. Perhaps North Korea might be a good destination for you?

[inane]

I don't think anyone is saying that we should just hand out nice little houses to every single person who wants one. That's not even what this debate is about. This is about foreigners taking away resources from those who actually contribute to society here and have livelihoods at stake.

This is a pretty loaded statement with a lot of assumptions...

[King_Canuckian]

Oops, I made a mistake in my previous post... I said high interest rates will keep foreign investment away. This is not true for those who have the money to buy and not carry a mortgage. So, what else, except to have a foreign investment tax, or outright ban it altogether.

[etsen3]

Really? Now you are worried that all of Canada or even the world becomes like Vancouver?

We will agree to disagree on government. There is no duty for them to help you live or buy here. It is a privilege, not a right. In fact, if government stepped and truly controlled this market, it is contrary to all fabrics of a free and democratic society. It is communism, a system that is extremely dangerous for corruption, hidden dictatorships and against the values that are the foundation for this nation. Perhaps North Korea might be a good destination for you?

I'm not saying all of Canada becomes that way. I'm asking if you would be willing to move to another country (the way you said those who can no longer afford to live here should) if you could no longer afford to live here. I'm not saying the government should completely control the economy but I'm all for taxing foreign investors who contribute nothing to our society. And if we are forced pay taxes to the government and allow them to govern us through votinf they do have a duty to provide a good return on our investment and serve the wishes of people who actually reside here over those that don't. It is absolutely a 2 way street.

It's quite the leap to go from a foreign investor tax to North Korea...I notice you even supported the tax earlier so I don't know what the fuss is about.

[grandmaster]

I'm not saying all of Canada becomes that way. I'm asking if you would be willing to move to another country (the way you said those who can no longer afford to live here should) if you could no longer afford to live here. I'm not saying the government should completely control the economy but I'm all for taxing foreign investors who contribute nothing to our society. And if we are forced pay taxes to the government and allow them to govern us through votinf they do have a duty to provide a good return on our investment and serve the wishes of people who actually reside here over those that don't. It is absolutely a 2 way street.

It's quite the leap to go from a foreign investor tax to North Korea...I notice you even supported the tax earlier so I don't know what the fuss is about.

If I had no choice, I would have to move. I would just not feel entitled like so many people in Vancouver seem to be.

It's true I do support a greater tax but that will not change things. It will only generate more income to government, which is not a bad thing. That is the only step I would be ok with in terms of government intervention. Anything harsher is a serious threat to the fabric Canadian democracy and economic freedom.

[Realtor Rod]

How many of those living west of Abbotsford are paying more than $2300 per month? Rent or mortgage.

[nuckin_futz]

60 Year Old Vancouver House Sells For 40% Above Asking As Chinese Buyers Go Full Tilt

While the US housing bubble may have made its triumphal return particularly among the ultra-luxury segment in select cities on the east and west coast (making both owning and renting unaffordable for most Americans), it pales in comparison to what is going on in Canada.

Case in point, this 60-year-old, 4-bedroom, 3-bathroom rancher in West Vancouver:

The house, according to the Vancouver Sun, was originally listed with an asking price of $2.98 million. A few days later, the house is in contract at a price of $4.1 million, 40% above asking.

"We got nine offers with the majority of bids from local buyers, ranging from full price to $4.1 million," said Royal LePage Sussex listing agent Viv Harvey.

Is the buyer some retired Wall Street vet, or a local energy tycoon who needs to park some cash away from the former safety of a Swiss bank account? Neither. The buyer, as has been the case in the luxury segment in the US, is none other than a Chinese buyer gone full tilt with hot money to dump abroad before the authorities find out.

As a reminder, China has "soft" capital controls for individuals which cap outflows at $50,000 a year. Needless to say, the army of Chinese buyers has found a way to circumvent say limitations, and as soon as some of China's hot money, of which there is now roughly $25 trillion in Chinese mainland deposits which are leaking ever faster abroad, makes its way to the US or Canada, it is immediately parked in real estate.

Such as this house.

"There is huge demand for view properties from Chinese and Middle Eastern investors," said Bell.

"They are willing to pay a bit more of a premium and look at the long term for trophy properties with larger lots, views, and (that are on) good streets."

"You can't really gauge what people are willing to pay," said RE/MAX Masters Realty agent Shahin Behroyan, who represented the buyer. "The view properties have become quite rare."

He added with more developers and builders also active in the market — buying, renovating or rebuilding homes and then selling them for a premium — other buyers are feeling more motivated than ever to "pay more for the land" and build themselves.

It's not just Canada. As we reported last July, Chinese buyers have become the largest source of foreign cash in the U.S. residential real estate market, accounting for nearly one in four dollars spent by foreigners on American housing last year, the National Association of Realtors said in its annual survey of international property sales. China accounted for $22 billion in international sales for the 12 month period ending March 2014, or 24% of all foreign sales, up from $12.8 billion, or 19%, during the year-earlier period.

So Chinese buyers buy up in bulk, renovate, upgrade, and sell to other Chinese buyers for a mark up, as the original seller uses the proceeds to buy up even more US real estate. Because with the Chinese housing bubble now burst, China's wealthiest are making sure housing is unaffordable for anyone but the wealthiest Americans and Canadians.

And since the risk is that the Politburo (which continues to be on an anti-corruption campaign, at least as far as non-Politburo members are concerned) can halt this capital exodus at any moments by demonstratively executing several of the offenders on primetime TV, home builders in the US are unwilling to take the risk, or rather plunge, and invest millions in housing on spec just to see demand cut off overnight due to some regulatory intervention.

Not convinced? Then go through the Hovnanian earnings call transcript in which one of the top US homebuilders just admitted it was "too aggressive" in producing homes on spec. So just imagine what will happen to the housing market in Canada (and the US) when this final source of high-end demand is finally "tapered", something China will inevitably have to do to reflate its all important domestic housing bubble.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-09/60-year-old-vancouver-house-sells-40-above-asking-chinese-buyers-go-full-tilt

When you have a stock market (Shanghai) that goes from 2000 to 5100 (157% return) in 1 year this is the result. People would rather be invested in hard assets as opposed to umbrella companies that go up 3000%.

It's up to local officials to curb this but they only see $$$ signs.