theminister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Why is it bound to look like that? The same reason it has for thousands of years of successive generations who believe those prophecies. Cognitive dissonance. You see what you want to believe. For those that don't believe in a pre-ordained End of the World it is simply a continuation of history. Some people see cataclysm because they want to....because it suits their fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 The same reason it has for thousands of years of successive generations who believe those prophecies. Cognitive dissonance. You see what you want to believe. For those that don't believe in a pre-ordained End of the World it is simply a continuation of history. Some people see cataclysm because they want to....because it suits their fantasy. Can you explain the seventy sevens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Can you explain the seventy sevens? Not anymore than I could Nostradamus. Superstition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Not anymore than I could Nostradamus. Superstition. Do you know what they are? Other than what you assume to be superstition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Do you know what they are? Other than what you assume to be superstition? Retroactive history. See... it's crap like that which makes anything that doomsayers say impossible to reason with because it's based off of your own superstition. It is, in fact, against your own beliefs if you hold the 'word of Jesus' to be true.... but you don't... as you allow the meaning to be explained to you and cast aside looking for justifications of the worldview that you ascribe to as dictated by the people around you who have re-inforced this nonsense. The inclusion alone of Revelations into the New Testament as canon was one of the most pagan acts of the Holy See. It's a load of crap. By seeking prophecy in the Bible to explain the future is wholly against what Jesus said, as in Mat 16:4, so you are acting against his teachings by doing so. Let alone the ridiculousness of using an Old Testament passage in justification of your believing we are in an End time. Admit it... the reason you keep saying that you believe the world is going to see 'major problems' coming up is based off of your belief that we are at the End of Days... correct? Not-with-standing that this has been the case of every successive generation of Christians since the days of Rome itself. Stop believing in that hocus-pocus and start believing you can help the world out of it by your own actions. Stop looking for someone else to save you and save yourself. That was always the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Retroactive history. See... it's crap like that which makes anything that doomsayers say impossible to reason with because it's based off of your own superstition. It is, in fact, against your own beliefs if you hold the 'word of Jesus' to be true.... but you don't... as you allow the meaning to be explained to you and cast aside looking for justifications of the worldview that you ascribe to as dictated by the people around you who have re-inforced this nonsense. The inclusion alone of Revelations into the New Testament as canon was one of the most pagan acts of the Holy See. It's a load of crap. By seeking prophecy in the Bible to explain the future is wholly against what Jesus said, as in Mat 16:4, so you are acting against his teachings by doing so. Let alone the ridiculousness of using an Old Testament passage in justification of your believing we are in an End time. Admit it... the reason you keep saying that you believe the world is going to see 'major problems' coming up is based off of your belief that we are at the End of Days... correct? Not-with-standing that this has been the case of every successive generation of Christians since the days of Rome itself. Stop believing in that hocus-pocus and start believing you can help the world out of it by your own actions. Stop looking for someone else to save you and save yourself. That was always the point. Matthew 16:4 says this: "An evil and adulterous generation demands a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” Then He left them and went away." As far as I'm concerned, Jesus was right. Our generation is always demanding signs, and if you can't deny that our culture is steeped in adultury. Personally, I've never demanded a sign, as they were always given or shown, as was the revelation of the end times to John, Daniel, and every other prophet in the Bible. When Jesus' disciples asked for a sign, he gave them this: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024. No one knows the day or the hour he'll be back, only the signs that precede his coming, and the reason that I say we are in the end of days is that these signs are actually starting to add up, more than they ever have in the past and will continue to do so until Jesus is back (which should be sometime before 2070, but I don't know the date). It's not hocus-pocus. Never has been, never will be. Yeah, I can help out the world with my own actions, and I've been trying to do that for some time now. Being a friend to the friendless, helping at soup kitchens, etc. And as far as saving myself goes... I can't. Never been able to, never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Matthew 16:4 says this: "An evil and adulterous generation demands a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” Then He left them and went away." As far as I'm concerned, Jesus was right. Our generation is always demanding signs, and if you can't deny that our culture is steeped in adultury. Personally, I've never demanded a sign, as they were always given or shown, as was the revelation of the end times to John, Daniel, and every other prophet in the Bible. When Jesus' disciples asked for a sign, he gave them this: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024. No one knows the day or the hour he'll be back, only the signs that precede his coming, and the reason that I say we are in the end of days is that these signs are actually starting to add up, more than they ever have in the past and will continue to do so until Jesus is back (which should be sometime before 2070, but I don't know the date). It's not hocus-pocus. Never has been, never will be. Yeah, I can help out the world with my own actions, and I've been trying to do that for some time now. Being a friend to the friendless, helping at soup kitchens, etc. And as far as saving myself goes... I can't. Never been able to, never will be. And yet you keep saying these are 'signs of the times' as you put in your own words. That's cognitive dissonance. Stop thinking that way or you are in juxtaposition with your god's teachings. When you keep spouting that nonsense and giving validity to the idiots who interpret passages as such then you are working against the teachings of Jesus. These are not 'signs.' These are events. Nothing more. Doomsday beliefs are absolutely hocus-pocus and always have been.... unless you are saying that Jesus was wrong in saying there will be no signs. Doomsday religions and beliefs, of any description, are a blight on the world. The End is not nigh..... get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butters Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Signs of the times, my friend. no not at all. For as long as I have been paying attention, I can't go a couple weeks without hearing similar sentiments. Always different apocalypses, and different details, but same attitude. The funny thing is that people who go down this road all seem to think they have special insights. But once you have seen a bunch of people like this, its clear that its just a personality problem and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 And yet you keep saying these are 'signs of the times' as you put in your own words. That's cognitive dissonance. Stop thinking that way or you are in juxtaposition with your god's teachings. When you keep spouting that nonsense and giving validity to the idiots who interpret passages as such then you are working against the teachings of Jesus. These are not 'signs.' These are events. Nothing more. They're the same thing. As far as "signs of the times" goes... you know when it's time for war by what you see around you, no? You know it's time for harvest by what you see around you, right? So this is how I know that we are in the last days: Israel's back. Jesus said he would return before the generation who saw Israel return died. Next sign is wars and rumours of wars. In the last two centuries, nay, the last millennium, there has been more blood shed from wars than the rest of civilization's history combined, and they will continue to get bigger (especially with the addition of nukes to modern warfare). Now, Jesus said that this still wasn't the end. Still more to come. Famines and earthquakes will be like of birth pangs for the end. I can't remember who said this, but someone said there was 97 major earthquakes (4.5< magnitude) over a five-day period. Famines have also been prevalent throughout history, but seem to have picked up in number and intensity over the last two centuries. Next comes persecutions: "Then they will hand you over for persecution, and they will kill you." Physical persecution has been prevalent in the middle east and Asia at least, and then there's verbal persecution in North America. "You will be hated by all nations because of My name." Pretty sure every nation except for maybe the Vatican has people who hate Christians right now. "Then many will take offense, betray one another and hate one another." Don't even really need to explain that one. "Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many." Go from pop stars to faux faith healers to TV shows even, we have a lot of people trying to deceive the church right now - whether it's intentional or not. And a lot of people are falling for it. "Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold." See pretty much any country that has a lot of crime for this one. "But the one who endures to the end will be delivered. This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world as a testimony to all nations." Currently, the Bible is being translated into almost every language in the world, and missionaries have gone pretty much everywhere. It's not complete yet, but when it is... "...then the end will come." Everything quoted is the words of Jesus. So, like I said, we're in the end times, but we're not quite at the end yet. It's like... a plane right before it starts circling for landing. no not at all. For as long as I have been paying attention, I can't go a couple weeks without hearing similar sentiments. Always different apocalypses, and different details, but same attitude. The funny thing is that people who go down this road all seem to think they have special insights. But once you have seen a bunch of people like this, its clear that its just a personality problem and nothing more. It's because other than what's been told to us in the scriptures or from angels/visions/whatever, it's really just a guessing game as to what's going to happen. But many feel that it is going to happen, and happen soon. It's understandable that you and minister feel this way. Do be wary of people who give a specific date, like May 29, 2013 or December 21, 2012. If they give an approximate time and reasons why, they're probably okay. But like Jesus said, no one knows the day or the hour that he'll come back... like a thief in the night, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 no not at all. For as long as I have been paying attention, I can't go a couple weeks without hearing similar sentiments. Always different apocalypses, and different details, but same attitude. The funny thing is that people who go down this road all seem to think they have special insights. But once you have seen a bunch of people like this, its clear that its just a personality problem and nothing more. The idea that the 'signs' are greater now than they were exactly 100 years ago, and then 75 years ago, puts greater emphasis on our own position over theirs. Doomsdayers had equal interpretation that they were in the end of days then. Crap, men were flying which was believed by the 'devout' to be against the Will of God. It's all utter hogwash. What about when the Muslims invaders came up throughout the known world? What about the 1st millennial and the subsequent Crusades? What about the plague of Justinian? What about the Golden Horde? What about the discovery of the New World? The point in not looking for the End of Days in the Jesus parable is to keep acting as if there won't be, so that we seek our own salvation by our works. When Christians, or anyone else, starts thinking we are at the End they stop doing what they should do.... If the Christian 'Armageddon' is a thousand years away then every opportunity to improve the macro view of the world will have been passed up, Because the End is Nigh!!!, and it would lead us to our doom... self-fulfilling prophecy. Why make emergency plans for after a critical event because the Rapture is right around the corner?!? Whatever.... let the sensible refill their Earthquake kits like they normally would. Let the soft-headed only pray instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 If the Christian 'Armageddon' is a thousand years away then every opportunity to improve the macro view of the world will have been passed up, Because the End is Nigh!!!, and it would lead us to our doom... self-fulfilling prophecy. Why make emergency plans for after a critical event because the Rapture is right around the corner?!? Please... the rapture is just a theory that shakily stands on something Paul said. Everything will seem normal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Please... the rapture is just a theory that shakily stands on something Paul said. Everything will seem normal... It's all shaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 It's all shaky. Not if you're on solid ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Not if you're on solid ground... Hopefully one day you'll see how ridiculous your beliefs in prophecy are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Hopefully one say you'll are how ridiculous your beliefs in prophecy are... Hopefully one day you'll realize how badly you structured that sentence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Hopefully one day you'll realize how badly you structured that sentence... Smart, kid. Spend a few more decades on the planet before you think you have all the answers until you can realize that you never will. Your lack of humility of your own understanding of the complexities of theology lead you to no new insight by not constantly questioning.... which is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butters Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 It's because other than what's been told to us in the scriptures or from angels/visions/whatever, it's really just a guessing game as to what's going to happen. But many feel that it is going to happen, and happen soon. It's understandable that you and minister feel this way. Do be wary of people who give a specific date, like May 29, 2013 or December 21, 2012. If they give an approximate time and reasons why, they're probably okay. But like Jesus said, no one knows the day or the hour that he'll come back... like a thief in the night, really. Yup, many always feel its going to happen soon. And that has more to do with them then anything else. Anyone who thinks they know whats going to happen, even not on a specific date, knows nothing at all. Also how did this go from 'planetary alignment' to biblical end times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Have to think this had a little something to do with the prediction: http://dutchsinse.com/5222015-erupting-volcano-earthquakes-off-west-coast-of-oregon-whole-coast-moved-over-48-hours/ So what you're saying is we could be screwed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Smart, kid. Spend a few more decades on the planet before you think you have all the answers until you can realize that you never will. Your lack of humility of your own understanding of the complexities of theology lead you to no new insight by not constantly questioning.... which is a shame. Honestly, God's shown me where to go with theology. I constantly question everything, I just do it in my head instead of on these forums. And I don't know all the answers. But I know Jesus, and he does. (Google helps too. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Yup, many always feel its going to happen soon. And that has more to do with them then anything else. Anyone who thinks they know whats going to happen, even not on a specific date, knows nothing at all. Also how did this go from 'planetary alignment' to biblical end times? The same way it started: earthquakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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