[discussion] Who actually believes a 're-tool' works when the key core players are 35 years old?

[Canucks Curse]

benning is working on rebuilding this team...i'll trust his expertise over cdc any day.

Really?

Would Cdc have signed Sbisa to 3.6 mill? Miller to 6 mill x 3 years?

I doubt it and let's be honest these aren't good moves

[Mr.53]

EXTREMELY disagree with your post… Dude, have you seen our prospect pool? By far the best it's been since arguably the Sedins were prospects, and honestly, it might be even better. You know how you rebuild/retool?

1. Establish a solid core of hard working veterans that can show young kids the way, while remaining competitive. You can ask Bo, he's even said how much help it's been coming to the rink and working with guys like the Sedins, Bieksa, Higgins, Hansen etc. We currently have a veteran team that can at least make the playoffs. So check.
2. Establish a solid pool of prospects with bright futures ahead of them. Must I riddle off the names? Not including Bo, McCann, Shinkaruk, Baertschi, Cassels, Demko, Gaunce, Hutton, Clendening etc. By far the best prospect pool we've ever had. Now we just have to wait for the kids to develop into NHL calibre players. So Check.
3. Slowly move in the new talent into the roster. You can't just come in and give the young guys all the top spots. That is how you lose. (I guess that is kind of what you want) Look at what we did this year. Added Bo Horvat, Linden Vey, Ronny Kenins, and to an extent Adam Clendening. Thats 2 rookies in the starting lineup, 1 as 13th forward, and a 6th/7th defensman. What else do you want dude? 4 rookies in the starting lineup? 5? 6? The whole point is that next season those guys will come in and be better, which pushes out the old vets. Guys like Bo, may get the 3c or 2c spot, and maybe someone like a Gaunce or Cassels steps in and goes through the process as well. It's a gradual process. Soooo, check. Life isn't a video game. You can't just fast forward through the deloping time of rookies. People on this site seem to love draft picks. Well draft picks take time. You gotta wait.

​

You don't take a playoff team, strip it down to 0, throw a bunch of 23 year olds on the team and hope for the best. Jim Benning is doing exactly what everyone wants him to do. Bringing in solid youth either by drafting or trade, developing them fully, and then inserting them into the lineup. Seems to me like the main problem is that he didn't do it fast enough which again, we had a number of youth players play prominent roles this year, and I'm sure next year we will have more. And then theres the whole Utica Comets tearing up the AHL thing. It's either that or the fact that we didn't "tank for McDavid." Lol, lets remember people, Jim Benning and Trevor Linden like their jobs too… That entails winning. string together 2-3 losing seasons with no playoffs and they could be looking for another job. THEY DON'T WANT THAT EITHER.

And the gall dude, "The Sedins are in a coasting until retirement mode." Wow… couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. You have any idea the character of these two guys? They had their worst season scoring 40ish points last year, and bounce back with 70 point seasons and somehow that's "coasting until retirement mode." I don't think a single player, coach, or GM in the league would say that about these two guys, let alone their "fan." Come on bruh this is Daniel and Henrik we're talking about

[canucktican]

I believe we will be a legit stanley cup contender in 4-5 years which aligns with our 50 year anniversary. We can't just trade away all our veterans and give the top spots to rookies. That is a recipe for a disaster.

[Brad Marchand]

Always love your pretentious assumptions that you can't back up with tangible evidence eg. "The Sedins are in coasting to retirement mode".

This is why it's hard to take you seriously.

[Crabcakes]

AV had discovered that the optimal ice time for the Sedins was 18 minutes. Their game is not dependant on speed so they may play well for years.

Whether you call it retool or rebuild it really doesn't matter. Over 3 or 4 years, the old core need to be replaced. Management is slowly rotating out the core of the 2011 team and is in the process of replacing them. Luongo and Kesler are gone. Higgins will go this summer and Bieksa and Hamhuis next year at least. Thing is, they need players coming up who are ready which they don't have. They have added Vrbata, Miller, Bonino and Dorsett to fill the gap on an interim basis.

MikeGillis58 above is right, this is a transition period and it's going to be a couple of years before some of the young players are going to contribute in a meaningful way. Baertschi, Clendening and Corrado will get a shot in the coming season and there will be others coming every year.

In the meantime, there is a hole on defense that needs to be filled in the summer but not at the expense of the larger plan. The hole that Benning identified he said was the transition game. I agree but I (and others) also think that a physical presence is also needed on the back end.

[jstewboy]

I couldn't think of 2 better vets to have teaching our young players how to be professionals. We should cut some "vet fat" in Higgins, Richardson, Bieksa and Miller.

I hope the Sedins continue to have a Jagr effect on our young guns and we sign them to another 2 year contract after their current one expires.

[Watermelons]

EXTREMELY disagree with your post… Dude, have you seen our prospect pool. By far the best it's been since arguably the Sedins were prospects, and honestly, it might be even better. You know how you rebuild/retool?

1. Establish a solid core of hard working veterans that can show young kids the way while remaining competitive. You can ask Bo, he's even said how much help it's been coming to the rink and working with guys like the Sedins, Bieksa, Higgins, Hansen etc. We currently have a veteran team that can at least make the playoffs. So check.
2. Establish a solid pool of prospects with bright futures ahead of them. Must I riddle off the names? Not including Bo, McCann, Shinkaruk, Baertschi, Cassels, Demko, Gaunce, Hutton, Clendening etc. By far the best prospect pool we've ever had. Now we just have to wait for the kids to develop into NHL calibre players. So Check.
3. Slowly move in the new talent into the roster. You can't just come in and give the young guys all the top spots. That is how you lose. (I guess that is kind of what you want) Look at what we did this year. Added Bo Horvat, Linden Vey, Ronny Kenins, and to an extent Adam Clendening. Thats 2 rookies in the starting lineup, 1 as 13th forward, and a 6th/7th defensman. What else do you want dude? 4 rookies in the starting lineup? 5? 6? The whole point is that next season those guys will come in and be better, which pushes out the old vets. Simultaniously, more young guys make the club. It's a gradual process. Soooo, check.

​

You don't take a playoff team, strip it down to 0, throw a bunch of 23 year olds on the team and hope for the best. Jim Benning is doing exactly what everyone wants him to do. Bringing in solid youth either by drafting or trade, developing them fully, and then inserting them into the lineup. Seems to me like the main problem is that he didn't do it fast enough which again, we had a number of youth players play prominent roles. And then theres the whole Utica Comets tearing up the AHL thing. Either that or the fact that we didn't "tank for McDavid." Lol lets remember, Benning and Linden like their jobs too… That entails winning. string together 2-3 losing seasons with no playoffs and they could be looking for another job. THEY DON'T WANT THAT EITHER

And the gall dude, "The Sedins are in a coasting until retirement mode." Wow… couldn't be the furthest thing from the truth. You have any idea the character of these two guys? He had their worst season scoring 40ish points last year, and bounce back with 70 point seasons and somehow that's "coasting until retirement mode." I don't think a single player, coach, or GM in the league would say that about these two guys, let alone their "fan." Come on bruh this is Daniel and Henrik we're talking about

Totally agree with everything you said. I think what people need to understand is that a "re-tool" isn't a one year thing. Just because we aren't rebuilding doesn't mean that we are going to see instant results. As fans the "sexiest" option is to get that high draft pick and take the potential superstar. But as the GM, coach and execs of a team you don't want to be losing cause you will lose you job. You might set up the team for years to come but you'll also be unemployed.

The reason the Canucks have seemed to drop off so much from 2011 is because of our poor drafting from 2005-2011. From those years Mason Raymond is the only guy who has had a significant role on the Canucks (or any other NHL team for that matter). We finally have a good prospect pool thanks to improved drafting from 2012-2014 and people want to either trade these guys away or throw them into the lineup before they are ready.

Benning has said many times that if a prospect is ready to play he will make room for them. I think it's better to make the young guys know that if they want to make the team they'll have to work their a$$ off than to give them a spot. A little bit of friendly competition within the team will push everyone to be better.

[iinatcc]

Ask the Oilers

[Trebreh]

this is a smithers joe bait thread. lol

[Master Mind]

It doesn't matter what age the Sedins are when they're both among the top scorers in the league.

We just need secondary scoring and better defence. We need the 're-tool' to fill those spots, and then eventually the Sedins, but we shouldn't have to worry about that for a few more years still.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

Ask the Oilers

Ask the Flames

[Canuck Surfer]

How about we replace Ehrhoff & Salo on D.

They're gone and not replaced, but the Twins are at least still here?

[Monteeun]

Really?

Would Cdc have signed Sbisa to 3.6 mill? Miller to 6 mill x 3 years?

I doubt it and let's be honest these aren't good moves

U think they're not good moves...that's about it

[Outsiders]

In like 4 years

Baertschi-Horvat-UFA
Shinkaruk-McCann-Virtanen

Sedin-Sedin(1 yr deals at 2 mill)-Kassian

Dorsett-Cassels-Grenier

[Nuxfanabroad]

Time for a limerick...

We collectively sound like a bore

As per Torts, resting hopes on old core

Yet some youngin's are arrivin'

Hey man, I'm not jivin'!

Or must we dump all this sh*t on the FLOOR??

[Nuxfanabroad]

So my heart rate's beginning to soar

Nostalgia for old days of yore

We can live in the past

Sit back, smoke some grass

Lost decades are now well past four!

[peaches5]

The Sedins will be 35 years old when September starts. They've both become playmakers now and are in need of a lot of assistance through scoring depth to see the team succeed as of late. Torts played them a lot 2 seasons ago and they broke. Clearly we cannot expect to win with them as key core players. And yet, some people seem to believe that it's not over and only a re-tooling is needed to see this team win.

I'm not saying trade the Sedins, but how are we to win a cup unless we replace them as key core players? How is a re-tool going to work if the best players on the team are just slowing down?

People say look at Anaheim, they re-tooled on the fly, now look. But Getzlaf and Perry aren't 35 years old. They are 30 years old. They, like Kesler, are in win now mode. The Sedins are in coasting to retirement mode.

Look, we had our time with the Sedins, and it was great. 2008-2012. Great. But it's over. The re-tool phase is over. After watching this team get buried by a young, underskilled Calgary team in the playoffs after a so-called successful regular season, I think it's pretty much said and done that the latest re-tool effort failed.

Again, i'm not saying trade the Sedins, but why is the approach 're-tool' when it's over? Why not admit a rebuild is needed when every coach and GM to come accross this team in years and years has said this team is old and needs to get younger? To me, that doesn't mean RE-TOOL! Holy crow!

Ah yes Torts broke them..

[Nuxfanabroad]

Like Duran, stopped fightin', "No more"

To watch this sh*te's surely a chore

D can't make a pass

Start games on our *ss

As Brando, we're noting, "The horror".

[Canuck Surfer]

Us?

Next year we have the contracts of Bieksa, Vrbata & Hamhuis expiring.

My bet is we trade one, re-sign one (as we don't have a succession plan ready on D) and let one expire.

The one we trade should net us a first round pick or equiv. And we free up $9 mill and two roster spots for the best UFA class in memory next year. In comes 1 dynamite UFA (Brett Seabrook anyone?). Trading Lack or Miller should also get us either a substantial forward via cap space or an ok forward prospect.

And our SIX already standing forwards picked in the first round (Baertschi, Virtanen, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Jensen & McCann) fight it out for two to 3 roster spots.

Between our 23rd this year, a 15th ish pick next year & that ^^ first , we should draft 3 stud d men & round out our stable.

Retool complete!

Anaheim did a quick retool. After firing Mike Babcock, they made the playoffs by signing the legend scotty.

The only way to save a rebuild is to sign the right guys. At this moment, there are no free agents that can save this team. So, yep. That leaves option 2, trading away some of the veterans and getting some solid young guys. So yeah.

Anaheim started their re-build on the back of some luck; drafting Getzlaf & Perry. Two late first round picks that both became MVP candidates.

But it was continuity that kept it rolling. Since then they have also drafted Cam Fowler, Silverburg, Hampus Lindholm, Palmeiri, Vatanen, Belesky, Rakell, developed Patrick Maroon in no particular order. Have Shea Theodore waiting to pounce. They did trade Pronger just like we traded Lou and Kess. Inbetween they kept Selanne & the vast majority of their veterans to buy their young troops time just like Lindenning propose...

Retool can work if you keep adding young players on an assembly line...

[Canuck Surfer]

Like Duran, stopped fightin', "No more"

To watch this sh*te's surely a chore

D can't make a pass

Start games on our *ss

As Brando, we're noting, "The horror".

That's some sake'