JamesB Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Trevor Linden is obviously a smart guy who has been successful at everything he has done. And Benning is clearly an excellent judge of talent. But some of the things they did last year do not seem to make sense, especially overpaying Miller, Sbisa, and Dorsett. But I think I have it figured out. It is all part of a secret plan. Don't tell anyone, as it won't be a secret plan anymore if lots of people know about it. But I think I can reveal a few details here. When TL and JB came on board they could see that the Sedins were still the best players on the team. However, even when the Sedins were at their peak in 2010-11 and 11-12, and the Canucks had arguable the best goaltending combo in the league (Lu and Schneider) and Hammer and Bieksa were in their prime, along with Ehrhoff, Salo, and Edler on D, that still was not good enough to win a Stanley Cup (although it was close and did win two President's trophies). If that team could not win in 2011 or 2012 it certainly was not going to win the Cup in 2015 or 2016. To win the Canucks needed to add some really high end talent and the best way to do that is with high draft picks. Note that Tampa is following that model, built around a #1 overall pick (Stamkos) and #2 overall pick (Hedman). Chicago of course did the same thing (Toews -- #3 overall pick and Kane -- #1 overall pick,) The problem is that ownership wanted a playoff team -- and the financial incentives are compelling as the playoffs generate a lot of profit and being in contention helps with regular season revenue as well. And making the playoffs makes it hard to get high draft picks. So, the Canucks needed to make the playoffs in 2015 to keep ownership happy and earn them some leeway. But they needed to do badly in 2016 and 2017 before re-emerging with a legitimate Cup contender. So they cleverly overpaid for Miller and others in 2015 to preclude adding players for the 2016 year. And they are trying to accumulate good young assets like Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Pedan, Baertschi and Clendening. With a few young assets left over from Gillis regime (Horvat, Cassels, Markstrom) they have part of an emerging young core. . At the trade deadline in 2016 the Canucks will be in a position to trade Bieksa, Hammer, Vrbata and maybe others for draft picks. (Those guys will only have a couple of months left on their contracts anyway so would probably be happy to go to contender to end the season. Maybe we could even re-sign Hammer in the summer of 2016). Then the Canucks could have a monster draft in 2016. (Benning has already said that the thinks the 2016 draft will be even better than the 2015 draft). Assuming they add at least one good young player in the 2015 draft, they should be well-positioned 3 or 4 years from now. I am pretty sure that is the secret plan. But, like I said, keep it secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Doubtful. Probably going to remain mediocre and squander the drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If it's secret, why are you telling us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuman491 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Makes sense for the most part. I agree that we won't be a contender for 3 or 4 years at the earliest. And that we need to draft well and hopefully lots! Are you saying that Miller, Sbisa and Dorsett were signed to help us stay mediocre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 This guy's a fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Interesting theory. I can see where you're going. But I doubt it. I don't think there's any secret. I think it's more likely that Benning just didn't like Gillis' guys and wanted to bring in his own. Gllis - Sestito, Matthias, Santorelli, Stanton, Weber, Kenins, Alberts.... Benning - Dorsett, Bonino, Vey, Sbisa, Clendeding, McMillan, Pedan... I think the difference is, Gillis was moneyball, which was need at the time due to cap issues. Benning is more about paying whatever it costs to get a target and stick with it, which is more suited for re-stocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Trevor Linden is obviously a smart guy who has been successful at everything he has done. And Benning is clearly an excellent judge of talent. But some of the things they did last year do not seem to make sense, especially overpaying Miller, Sbisa, and Dorsett. But I think I have it figured out. It is all part of a secret plan. Don't tell anyone, as it won't be a secret plan anymore if lots of people know about it. But I think I can reveal a few details here. When TL and JB came on board they could see that the Sedins were still the best players on the team. However, even when the Sedins were at their peak in 2010-11 and 11-12, and the Canucks had arguable the best goaltending combo in the league (Lu and Schneider) and Hammer and Bieksa were in their prime, along with Ehrhoff, Salo, and Edler on D, that still was not good enough to win a Stanley Cup (although it was close and did win two President's trophies). If that team could not win in 2011 or 2012 it certainly was not going to win the Cup in 2015 or 2016. To win the Canucks needed to add some really high end talent and the best way to do that is with high draft picks. Note that Tampa is following that model, built around a #1 overall pick (Stamkos) and #2 overall pick (Hedman). Chicago of course did the same thing (Toews -- #3 overall pick and Kane -- #1 overall pick,) The problem is that ownership wanted a playoff team -- and the financial incentives are compelling as the playoffs generate a lot of profit and being in contention helps with regular season revenue as well. And making the playoffs makes it hard to get high draft picks. So, the Canucks needed to make the playoffs in 2015 to keep ownership happy and earn them some leeway. But they needed to do badly in 2016 and 2017 before re-emerging with a legitimate Cup contender. So they cleverly overpaid for Miller and others in 2015 to preclude adding players for the 2016 year. And they are trying to accumulate good young assets like Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Pedan, Baertschi and Clendening. With a few young assets left over from Gillis regime (Horvat, Cassels, Markstrom) they have part of an emerging young core. . At the trade deadline in 2016 the Canucks will be in a position to trade Bieksa, Hammer, Vrbata and maybe others for draft picks. (Those guys will only have a couple of months left on their contracts anyway so would probably be happy to go to contender to end the season. Maybe we could even re-sign Hammer in the summer of 2016). Then the Canucks could have a monster draft in 2016. (Benning has already said that the thinks the 2016 draft will be even better than the 2015 draft). Assuming they add at least one good young player in the 2015 draft, they should be well-positioned 3 or 4 years from now. I am pretty sure that is the secret plan. But, like I said, keep it secret. If the defence was good enough to win the Cup it would have one the Cup. It wasn't. This has always been the Canucks biggest issue. While Erhoff and Salo were well versed offensive d-men, neither was a deterrent against a strong forecheck (such as Boston's overwhelming 2011 version). Luongo played out of his head in the 2011 run, and due to that, the glaring issues with the defense's lack of size and physicality was never exposed. Edler was the biggest defenseman, and Bieksa the most truculent, but all the same both played as they are 2/3 defensemen. This team needs to remedy this point in the offseason by trading for some convincing size on the blueline, and acquire raw talent for it through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baer. Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 In 3-4 years guys like Baertschi, Horvat, Clendening, Corrado, Pedan, Grenier etc etc, I could list more but wont, will be in their prime (23-26y/o). Its going to be a big culture change with Hammer, Bieksa, Sedins and Burrows all likely to retire in the next 3-5 seasons. I could see this one year where we just run with the young guns after the core has retired, pick up a couple more picks and we are set for the next 10-15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltt Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I've had that same dream James. In fact more than once. Have the gremlins appeared in yours yet??? Don't worry it's normal bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 No, not really. We'll likely move a vet or two (three on the outside) at the deadline, but we aren't going to suddenly sell and be bad enough after the deadline to plummet to the 1st overall. They really are planning on remaining competitive and drafting well to bring those young players into a successful environment. Other teams, when they tanked, they tanked. It wasn't often that those teams had players of the calibre of the Sedins still (not to mention a reasonable supporting cast) and yet still ended up with extremely good picks. Tampa for instance did keep St Louis, but Richards and Lecavalier moved on after their games dropped off big time. And Benning said he believes the second and third tier of prospects is better next year (i.e. 2nd rounders) which is why he wasn't as worried about dealing picks in that range this year but has held onto next year's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahyoung Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Generally I find you analysis plausible and well thought out. However, the Sedins are so good that with them on the team, it won't tank (as least not as well as the other tanking competition). Makes sense to try to tank after they retire... that's 2018. Until then build the team to make a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiangunner Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Generally I find you analysis plausible and well thought out. However, the Sedins are so good that with them on the team, it won't tank (as least not as well as the other tanking competition). Makes sense to try to tank after they retire... that's 2018. Until then build the team to make a run. That makes zero sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahyoung Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Sure it does. When you have good players, you try to win. When you have bad players, you could try to lose depending on the situation. The Sedins could make pylons score on their line. They are under contract till 2018. So we try to win for now. You could tank, but could the Canucks tank to the coveted 1,2,3 draft positions? Unlikely. Far worse teams will be gunning for those positions. I will say that it's unlikely the Canucks 'cleverly overpaid' for anything since overpaying for anything is almost always bad. More likely he didn't trust Lack in net, at least not to start for last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 If it's secret, why are you telling us? Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 I've had that same dream James. In fact more than once. Have the gremlins appeared in yours yet??? Don't worry it's normal bro... You mean the green ones with purple spots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretzky to Lemieux Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Trevor Linden is obviously a smart guy who has been successful at everything he has done. And Benning is clearly an excellent judge of talent. But some of the things they did last year do not seem to make sense, especially overpaying Miller, Sbisa, and Dorsett. But I think I have it figured out. It is all part of a secret plan. Don't tell anyone, as it won't be a secret plan anymore if lots of people know about it. But I think I can reveal a few details here. When TL and JB came on board they could see that the Sedins were still the best players on the team. However, even when the Sedins were at their peak in 2010-11 and 11-12, and the Canucks had arguable the best goaltending combo in the league (Lu and Schneider) and Hammer and Bieksa were in their prime, along with Ehrhoff, Salo, and Edler on D, that still was not good enough to win a Stanley Cup (although it was close and did win two President's trophies). If that team could not win in 2011 or 2012 it certainly was not going to win the Cup in 2015 or 2016. To win the Canucks needed to add some really high end talent and the best way to do that is with high draft picks. Note that Tampa is following that model, built around a #1 overall pick (Stamkos) and #2 overall pick (Hedman). Chicago of course did the same thing (Toews -- #3 overall pick and Kane -- #1 overall pick,) The problem is that ownership wanted a playoff team -- and the financial incentives are compelling as the playoffs generate a lot of profit and being in contention helps with regular season revenue as well. And making the playoffs makes it hard to get high draft picks. So, the Canucks needed to make the playoffs in 2015 to keep ownership happy and earn them some leeway. But they needed to do badly in 2016 and 2017 before re-emerging with a legitimate Cup contender. So they cleverly overpaid for Miller and others in 2015 to preclude adding players for the 2016 year. And they are trying to accumulate good young assets like Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Pedan, Baertschi and Clendening. With a few young assets left over from Gillis regime (Horvat, Cassels, Markstrom) they have part of an emerging young core. . At the trade deadline in 2016 the Canucks will be in a position to trade Bieksa, Hammer, Vrbata and maybe others for draft picks. (Those guys will only have a couple of months left on their contracts anyway so would probably be happy to go to contender to end the season. Maybe we could even re-sign Hammer in the summer of 2016). Then the Canucks could have a monster draft in 2016. (Benning has already said that the thinks the 2016 draft will be even better than the 2015 draft). Assuming they add at least one good young player in the 2015 draft, they should be well-positioned 3 or 4 years from now. I am pretty sure that is the secret plan. But, like I said, keep it secret. The 2011 and 2012 Canucks were good enough to win 2 straight cups. In the 2011 finals we had Henrik playing through some kinda back problem, Kesler had basically one leg, Malhotra couldn't see, we lost our most reliable defencemen in Hammer in game 1, Edler had broken finger, and Raymond had a broken BACK. Looking back to the finals, it's amazing that that team made it all the way to game 7. Just shows how good that team really was when Boston only had Horton out with a concussion. If we won that year I'm pretty sure we could've won in 2012 as well. Think about it. We had the two previous art ross winners and the reining MVP on our team. A second line center that can shut anyone down and score 41 goals at the same time, and one of the best defence and probably the best goaltending duo in the league. Injuries aren't an excuse, but we would've DESTROYED those Bruins if we were as healthy as them and probably made another cup run in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm sorry, told the Missus-but don't worry, she only follows sumo... Interesting theory..creative destruction. Pay no heed to the accusatory 'yer a consp-theorist-wankers'. The media itself IS a conspiracy of hardsell-propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I've had that same dream James. In fact more than once. Have the gremlins appeared in yours yet??? Don't worry it's normal bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Here's my theory. And I don't want to see any photo's of guys wearing tin foil hats because this is such a radical thought. It's the hiding in plain sight theory. In other words...... JB and TL are going to do exactly what they've been telling us all along. Best of all, I think it's going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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