Congratulations! You The Law Biding Citizen Might Now Be A Second Class Citizen

[Lockout Casualty]

Well that's part of the problem - spreading misinformation than saying - oh, I was being sarcastic.

If that was the case, he should have just replied to my last post his real intentions instead of treating me like a "2nd class" person, by stating he needs to "dumb down" his posts.

Did he do either of those things? Strange, I don't see it. Care to point it out?

You really think it needs saying that if you're involved in terrorist activities you'll go to jail here, and don't actually have "nothing to worry about"? Is this a joke? Do you not understand the two tier issue stems from having one's citizenship stripped, while others may not face the same? It's irrelevant that in both cases jail is a given.

[Hugor Hill]

Well that's part of the problem - spreading misinformation than saying - oh, I was being sarcastic.

If that was the case, he should have just replied to my last post his real intentions instead of treating me like a "2nd class" person, by stating he needs to "dumb down" his posts.

The difference is I was being sarcastic to begin with. No one would think that anyone can commit terrorist acts and get away with it.

F&%k I shouldn't have to come around and defend my post like this. But this is the level of dumbness that is required to communicate with you effectively.

First tier Canadian citizen checking in.....

Same here.

[awalk]

They're not second class citizens. If they follow the law, they have nothing whatsoever to worry about. However, if they came to the country to cause trouble (i.e. terrorism), they'll find themselves kicked out. I like this.

This, of course, isn't all that's in C-24 either.. also in there is longer residency requirements to become naturalized, more stringent language requirements for naturalization. These are more than sensible.

Two issues I take with this:

1) It's not only people who immigrate to Canada, it's also people born in Canada who hold citizenship elsewhere.

2) The Harper government considers many environmental activists to be committing terror activities. I don't agree at all with deporting someone who is protesting against a pipeline in BC or against tar sands in Alberta, for example. All citizens should have a right to peaceful protest without being labeled a terrorist, and without fear of deportation.

Edit: I am also a "first tier" citizen. Many many many of my friends who were born in Canada but hold citizenship elsewhere are now second tier. Doesn't seem right to me at all.

[Standing_Tall#37]

Omg this thread is sooo full of conspiracy theorists. If you haven't done anything wrong, you haven't got anything to worry about.

[Heretic]

Did he do either of those things? Strange, I don't see it. Care to point it out?

You really think it needs saying that if you're involved in terrorist activities you'll go to jail here, and don't actually have "nothing to worry about"? Is this a joke? Do you not understand the two tier issue stems from having one's citizenship stripped, while others may not face the same? It's irrelevant that in both cases jail is a given.

Still doesn't make someone a "second class" citizen.

There are multiple tax brackets - so that's a "tiered" system.

Again, they (government) can NOT take away the citizenship of someone who was born here, except if they are involved in terrorism and have citizenship in another country. Think about that - what would you be - a citizen of earth? The dual citizenship part is going to be hard for them (government) to invoke - for what if the country they held their 2nd citizenship in removed them first?

Again - still does not make anyone a 1st class or 2nd class citizen.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

This is about trying to stop terrorist from infiltrating this country, it's not about the government going on a witch hunt and getting rid of anyone just because they were born elsewhere.

[Heretic]

Two issues I take with this:

1) It's not only people who immigrate to Canada, it's also people born in Canada who hold citizenship elsewhere.

2) The Harper government considers many environmental activists to be committing terror activities. I don't agree at all with deporting someone who is protesting against a pipeline in BC or against tar sands in Alberta, for example. All citizens should have a right to peaceful protest without being labeled a terrorist, and without fear of deportation.

Edit: I am also a "first tier" citizen. Many many many of my friends who were born in Canada but hold citizenship elsewhere are now second tier. Doesn't seem right to me at all.

As long as you're peaceful - you got nothing to worry about.

Put nails in trees, or sabotage pipelines or other non peaceful activities - then too bad.

[awalk]

As long as you're peaceful - you got nothing to worry about.

Put nails in trees, or sabotage pipelines or other non peaceful activities - then too bad.

In theory, sure, but in reality that doesn't ring true. Peaceful protesters are often arrested. And protesters can be arrested on far less grounds than putting nails in trees or sabotaging pipelines. What is protecting them if they are declared a terrorist?

[Hugor Hill]

Omg this thread is sooo full of conspiracy theorists. If you haven't done anything wrong, you haven't got anything to worry about.

The issue is if you have done something wrong, one 'class' of citizens will receive a less severe punishment than another 'class' of citizens. That is the definition of a two tiered system.

[awalk]

Omg this thread is sooo full of conspiracy theorists. If you haven't done anything wrong, you haven't got anything to worry about.

So to be clear, you have never ever once in your life broken a law? I am impressed.

[Lockout Casualty]

Still doesn't make someone a "second class" citizen.

There are multiple tax brackets - so that's a "tiered" system.

Again, they (government) can NOT take away the citizenship of someone who was born here, except if they are involved in terrorism and have citizenship in another country. Think about that - what would you be - a citizen of earth? The dual citizenship part is going to be hard for them (government) to invoke - for what if the country they held their 2nd citizenship in removed them first?

Again - still does not make anyone a 1st class or 2nd class citizen.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

This is about trying to stop terrorist from infiltrating this country, it's not about the government going on a witch hunt and getting rid of anyone just because they were born elsewhere.

In other words no, he didn't "spread misinformation" and "then say 'Oh, I was being sarcastic'". You should probably apologize for saying that.

2nd class citizen, same but different, whatever you want to call it, this splits Canadian citizens into two groups, and that's the problem. There should be no such thing.

By the way, if you pay attention, you'd notice that terrorism doesn't mean what it once did. Government calls everything it can "terrorism".

As long as you're peaceful - you got nothing to worry about.

Put nails in trees, or sabotage pipelines or other non peaceful activities - then too bad.

Oh, I guess you don't mind calling everything you can terrorism either...

[Heretic]

In theory, sure, but in reality that doesn't appear to be true. Peaceful protesters are often arrested. What is protecting them if they are declared a terrorist?

If one protester throws a tomato or spray paints private property or illegally blocks a road - then yes, officers have no choice but to arrest people - you wouldn't want them to arrest just 1 or 2 and let the others continue (for you're dreaming if the rest will be "peaceful").

Have you've been to a protest where it got out of hand? I have - it's gets ugly fast, mob psychology takes over, hence the police need to act swiftly to defuse.

[Heretic]

In other words no, he didn't "spread misinformation" and "then say 'Oh, I was being sarcastic'". You should probably apologize for saying that.

2nd class citizen, same but different, whatever you want to call it, this splits Canadian citizens into two groups, and that's the problem. There should be no such thing.

By the way, if you pay attention, you'd notice that terrorism doesn't mean what it once did. Government calls everything it can "terrorism".

Oh, I guess you don't mind calling everything you can terrorism either...

LOL - apologize? Moi? For what - calling him out? And what does he do? Insinuates that I am dumb.

Come on man - you're smarter than that.

[Hugor Hill]

If one protester throws a tomato or spray paints private property or illegally blocks a road - then yes, officers have no choice but to arrest people - you wouldn't want them to arrest just 1 or 2 and let the others continue (for you're dreaming if the rest will be "peaceful").

Have you've been to a protest where it got out of hand? I have - it's gets ugly fast, mob psychology takes over, hence the police need to act swiftly to defuse.

Not all protests go out of hand. I was at the G20 in Toronto and the police mass arrested people, even those who weren't doing anything, even bystanders and some folks with media passes. Meanwhile they didn't arrest the black block people who did the most damage to properties.

EDIT: Wait... wrong thread....

[awalk]

If one protester throws a tomato or spray paints private property or illegally blocks a road - then yes, officers have no choice but to arrest people - you wouldn't want them to arrest just 1 or 2 and let the others continue (for you're dreaming if the rest will be "peaceful").

Have you've been to a protest where it got out of hand? I have - it's gets ugly fast, mob psychology takes over, hence the police need to act swiftly to defuse.

I'm not talking about protesters who commit active offenses like what you are describing, I'm talking about peaceful protesters who get arrested for trespassing (often right at the line of where the company they are protesting owns the land stops and where public land starts).

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/more-than-two-dozen-kinder-morgan-pipeline-protesters-arrested-1.2111094

I'm agreeing with you that there are protesters who break the law severely and deserve to be arrested because the law is the law, but at the same time there are protesters who are acting peacefully and get screwed by legal technicalities and this could get them in a lot more trouble than they deserve for trying to protect our environment that has been devastated by the current federal government (not to mention the destruction done by Campbell and co in BC).

Edit: Also, you'd be OK with deporting someone over throwing a tomato???

[Heretic]

Not all protests go out of hand. I was at the G20 in Toronto and the police mass arrested people, even those who weren't doing anything, even bystanders and some folks with media passes. Meanwhile they didn't arrest the black block people who did the most damage to properties.

EDIT: Wait... wrong thread....

Well....no one said it was perfect...mistakes will happen, I agree.

[Standing_Tall#37]

The issue is if you have done something wrong, one 'class' of citizens will receive a less severe punishment than another 'class' of citizens. That is the definition of a two tiered system.

So people not originally from this country should be able to break the law and be a financial burden. Maybe canada can build jails and every other country can send their criminals here free of charge. Our taxpayers would be more than happy. Seriously though law abiding citizens of any classification have nothing to worry about.

[awalk]

Yikes...

[drummer4now]

First tier Canadian citizen checking in.....

Newly formed second tier Canadian citizen checking in...

Well I guess it would not hurt to find alternatives to Canada..

[etsen3]

Omg this thread is sooo full of conspiracy theorists. If you haven't done anything wrong, you haven't got anything to worry about.

This works in theory, but time and time again in history people have constantly been arrested even if they have broken no law. Either that or they have broken the law, but the law was unjust in the first place.

We have checks and balances on the authorities, not to protect criminals, but to protect innocents.

Plus that's not the problem with this law. The problem is two people could commit the same crime, but one will get a harsher punishment simply because he/she is a citizen of another country, even if he/she was born in Canada and had no ties to any other nation.

[awalk]

This works in theory, but time and time again in history people have constantly been arrested even if they have broken no law. Either that or they have broken the law, but the law was unjust in the first place.

We have checks and balances on the authorities, not to protect criminals, but to protect innocents.

Not to mention people break the law a lot more than they realize. Now, most of these are minor infractions that wouldn't be grounds for any revoking of citizenship, but this new bill doesn't leave a lot of options for someone to fight for their citizenship if it is being threatened to be taken away.

Drive over the speed limit? You're breaking the law.

Connect to unsecured wifi? You could be breaking the law.

Download music or movies or tv shows or stream them on a non-licensed site? Breaking the law.

Sing the happy birthday song in a large group? Breaking copyright law

Text or make a phone call while driving? broke da law

Give a beer to your underage kid at a family party? You just broke THE LAWRRR

Again, I'm not saying these are laws that are going to impact C24, it's just amusing to me to see the folks on their high horse with stupid blanket statements of "if you did nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about" when they have probably broken the law many times without even realizing.