when will we be better . . . or worse?

[Wilbur]

So, what I'm hearing in this thread is that Benning is an absolute moron for trading away draft picks because everyone in this draft rounds 1 to 3 is gonna be a stud...except for an inexplicable black hole at the 23rd pick. If that's the case lets just wait 7 years until all of these franchise players reach free agency and their teams, flush with players they picked with picks traded away by the Canucks, can't possibly fit them all under the cap.

I know, I know, Tankerz wanna tank. They argue we need the top picks. But that takes a lot of time too. 5+ years of being at the bottom of the basement, we're only a bad dollar away from not having a team. You're putting way too much faith in Bettman if you think he'll defend the Canucks with equal vigour as the Coyotes.

Oh, and it has been stated on numerous other threads, Bennings contracts may not be home runs, but they're pretty much in line with contracts around the league. Take our rose coloured glasses off? Maybe try driving something other than a garbage truck.

[tyhee]

...

The other contracts Benning has signed make me think that his contract negotiation skills and contract assessment skills are not so great. One problem is impatience. He did not want to take much time to get Miller signed, the get Sbisa and Dorsett signed and to get Tanev signed. I am sure that the agents for all those guys were surprised at how quickly Benning caved in on their demands.

As a result the Canucks have a significant cap problem heading into next year.

They all go what they deserve looking at other players in the range and caliber of the players. Miller was an elite goalie sure a little old now and not as good but his price doesn't drop to 3 million over a year. It's inflation it happens everywhere we will start seeing it happen in the NHL more and more. Get use to it

I couldn't disagree more.

Miller's 6 million was higher than it should have been. Even TV commentators during the free agent frenzy were calling it a million too high. Miller isn't young and elite any longer and had just come off a dismal (though very short) time in St Louis.

Sbisa's $3.6 mill AAV is imo completely absurd. Any rational objective test indicates he's a poor defenceman, one of the poorest regulars in the league. He was already being paid a high contract for what Anaheim had expected him to become-but he hadn't gotten to the level or a reasonable NHL d-man. $3.6 mill per is way, way too much to play for someone pushing after the whistle and dishing out body checks and showing, but not realizing on, the potential for more. It also has the Canucks in Cap Hell they could have avoided easily.

I also have issues with the Tanev (mild issues re 2015, a major issue with 2014 when I though Benning should have been anxious to lock up Tanev at a cheap price) and Dorsett (partly money but more concerned with term) but it is really the Sbisa contract that seems craziest. Even if Sbisa develops into a terrific player, I can't see how anyone would have been signing him to a contract for that much money based on what he's produced so far in his career. How much could he really have gotten if the Canucks had submitted him to arbitration for the coming season?

When Benning lowballed Tanev in the summer of 2014 he was quoted as saying the Canucks wanted to see a larger body of work. Does anyone out there really think that the Tanev of 2013-14 had only earned a one year, $2 million contract while the Sbisa of 2014-15 had earned a 3 year deal at $3.6 mill per? How can this make sense?

Source for Benning's "larger body of work" comment: While I saw it reported often last summer, a quick search just now only brought up a column of Jamieson's that referred to it: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Jamieson+Benning+meets+Chris+Tanev+agent+again+still+deal/10827547/story.html

[ice orca]

Benning has publicly stated he wants to recoup some picks other GM's know this and the price will be high. He probably will have to package players/prospects/picks from upcoming drafts, someones favorite player/prospect is going to get traded. He stated that 5 prospects are untouchable and nobody really knows who they are just speculation on our part. This could be a good draft but if he panics and makes the wrong trades and picks it could be a disaster. This draft is going to test the metal of Benning and the org because if they get it wrong it could really set the Canucks back trying to make the playoffs as you might have to throw 2-3 kids into the NHL before they are ready. We all have seen the good and bad when that happens..mostly bad.

[granpappy]

So, what I'm hearing in this thread is that Benning is an absolute moron for trading away draft picks because everyone in this draft rounds 1 to 3 is gonna be a stud...except for an inexplicable black hole at the 23rd pick. If that's the case lets just wait 7 years until all of these franchise players reach free agency and their teams, flush with players they picked with picks traded away by the Canucks, can't possibly fit them all under the cap.

I know, I know, Tankerz wanna tank. They argue we need the top picks. But that takes a lot of time too. 5+ years of being at the bottom of the basement, we're only a bad dollar away from not having a team. You're putting way too much faith in Bettman if you think he'll defend the Canucks with equal vigour as the Coyotes.

Oh, and it has been stated on numerous other threads, Bennings contracts may not be home runs, but they're pretty much in line with contracts around the league. Take our rose coloured glasses off? Maybe try driving something other than a garbage truck.

well, it's just that many have taken a leap of faith that all jb's moves are "the" moves and not worthy of criticism or 2nd guessing. the frustrating thing is there are many that predicted a first round exit; not hindsight but having followed the team, an awareness that the decline was on. mathias will be gone for zip. could have netted a 2nd round maybe to the right team at the deadline. anyone who still thinks beiksa has it, has "rose colored specs' on. he could have netted something at the deadline to a contenda. it is non-moves like these that are a cause for concern.

as far as his picks, i have no problem with his 2014 picks but the reality is, only time will tell. again, some are claiming that his picks will be a guaranteed success. again, 'rose colored.'

bottom line is, we may well be arizona or the oil rather than the red wings and it may well be a half dozen years before we will compete not to make the playoffs but to win the cup.

[Wilbur]

well, it's just that many have taken a leap of faith that all jb's moves are "the" moves and not worthy of criticism or 2nd guessing. the frustrating thing is there are many that predicted a first round exit; not hindsight but having followed the team, an awareness that the decline was on. mathias will be gone for zip. could have netted a 2nd round maybe to the right team at the deadline. anyone who still thinks beiksa has it, has "rose colored specs' on. he could have netted something at the deadline to a contenda. it is non-moves like these that are a cause for concern.

as far as his picks, i have no problem with his 2014 picks but the reality is, only time will tell. again, some are claiming that his picks will be a guaranteed success. again, 'rose colored.'

bottom line is, we may well be arizona or the oil rather than the red wings and it may well be a half dozen years before we will compete not to make the playoffs but to win the cup.

Thank you for a more moderate post.

To me, it appears that Bennings moves have been pretty consistent with his plan to

a). prepare for the future with the first task of boosting the 20-24 age group of talent

. remain competitive without sacrificing (a)

Miller and Vrbata were brought in costing zero assets and the Canucks don't make the playoffs if both of those signings weren't made. If any team can make a move like that to get to the playoffs they would do it too.

When in a pretty decent playoff situation you just don't start selling assets and cripple your playoff drive even if you're not a contender. Unless you get an offer you can't refuse, but Matthias for a 2nd rounder (at best) is not that. Could they lose him nothing? Sure, but you get other assets for free in free agency too. Bieksa was never going to wave his NTC last year. And asking a vet to waive with over a year left on a NTC part way through a season is just begging for a toxic dressing room.

Benning said that he would give the current core one last chance. He has been true to his word. It'll be interesting to see where he goes from here. It won't be as simple as trading away the vets. Listening to Benning talk, he likes to say he'll create room for players ready for a spot. So barring bad training camps that looks to be Baertschi, Corrado, Clendenning, and Markstrom. You just can't predict which NTC players will waive so I won't speculate here.

Either way, I do agree though, the Canucks are probably 6+ years from being a cup contender. But things can happen that could speed that up...that's why we're fans.

[MovesLikeDatsyuk]

So, what I'm hearing in this thread is that Benning is an absolute moron for trading away draft picks because everyone in this draft rounds 1 to 3 is gonna be a stud...except for an inexplicable black hole at the 23rd pick. If that's the case lets just wait 7 years until all of these franchise players reach free agency and their teams, flush with players they picked with picks traded away by the Canucks, can't possibly fit them all under the cap.

I know, I know, Tankerz wanna tank. They argue we need the top picks. But that takes a lot of time too. 5+ years of being at the bottom of the basement, we're only a bad dollar away from not having a team. You're putting way too much faith in Bettman if you think he'll defend the Canucks with equal vigour as the Coyotes.

Oh, and it has been stated on numerous other threads, Bennings contracts may not be home runs, but they're pretty much in line with contracts around the league. Take our rose coloured glasses off? Maybe try driving something other than a garbage truck.

Fak the Tankerz!!!

[Van bc]

We are going to be horrible for at least 10 years. I think this GM will make things worse along the way

[WHL rocks]

I say 5 to 7 years before we see light and 10 years before being top tier team. Rebuilds take a long time and we haven't even officially started our rebuild yet.

[slaythedragon]

taking a long term view, what will be the effect of hanging onto our vets til the end?

we will likely be competitive enough to remain out of the basement for several more years, say 2yrs. after this run is over we will begin to rely on our group of prospects to move into major roles. horvat looks a champion. objectively, it is not realistic to think that all our current prospects will step right in and contribute without a few years of 'seasoning.'

this could be where we struggle.

it is well documented that we have had the poorest group of prospects for some time; only in the last couple of years have we had any talent in our prospect pool. so, assuming the rest of the leagues' high end prospects begin to enter the league as our vets finally retire or become redundant, we will have a window where we may be at the bottom rung. the reality is we may reach our low point in 2017/18.

our current prospect pool may struggle with the weight of having to perform immediately we may even have several years of high end picks. we may not be competitive again until at the earliest, 2022.

this is keeping in line with the general canuck curse of genuinely challenging for the cup every 10 years or so.

anyway, i think we will see a vast amount of changes before we actually compete again.

And this is exactly why you need the veteran presence in the lineup, for the "seasoning" of these young players as mentioned above. Someone to show them how to play at the NHL level, rise up to the challenges presented to them by players of other teams. It's better than leaving everything up to 20-22 year olds and expecting them to play every night on ice without any guidance, exactly like Edmonton. Deliberate tanking, doesn't make sense to me. What did Edmonton get drafting high picks like Hall, Eberle. Hasn't taken them anywhere, primarily because of absence of older guys who know the game in and out. Guys in Edmonton have had to learn the hard way, and they are still learning. I think Veterans just help quicken the process a bit. So I like where Benning is taking is taking the team. Thankfully criticism doesn't seem to phase him.