Ontario teachers wants you to know the facts about their strike - "it's not about the money"

[Mr. Ambien]

Parents that send their kids to private school also pay taxes. Why shouldn't they get the same per student funding as every other school does?

Is it their fault they happen to be better at educating children?

BTW, get used to the situation. The healthcare monster is going to be easting up even more money moving forward, and with more and more retirees, there's going to be less tax revenue as well. Do you really expect an aging population to care about education more than benefits for themselves? Good luck with that.

Unfortunately, simple math will win every time. Just ask the Greeks.......

The Greeks can't do math, so asking them would be pointless.

[inane]

Parents that send their kids to private school also pay taxes. Why shouldn't they get the same per student funding as every other school does?

Is it their fault they happen to be better at educating children?

BTW, get used to the situation. The healthcare monster is going to be easting up even more money moving forward, and with more and more retirees, there's going to be less tax revenue as well. Do you really expect an aging population to care about education more than benefits for themselves? Good luck with that.

Unfortunately, simple math will win every time. Just ask the Greeks.......

Who?

[ronthecivil]

Who?

Private schools. The students consistently have higher grades.

[Mr. Ambien]

Private schools. The students consistently have higher grades.

Because more value is placed on education. Parents who value education in this fashion shouldn't have trouble with public schools either. It's just more of a bonus.

My daughter starts school next year, and she'll be doing French immersion (couldn't convince wife to do German immersion so I'll have to teach daughter Bairisch myself), and given it's part of the public school system, it's my job as a parent to often offset some of the liberal brainwashing they'll be trying to impose on her. It really wouldn't be too different in private schools, except I want my kids to experience how the public really is to be able to deal with them appropriately. While learning things is the #1 goal of school, the intangible is social skills and functioning with people of all different flavours. This is a key to business as well, learning how to use the stupidity of the average person to move money from their wallet to yours -- aka marketing.

[inane]

Private schools. The students consistently have higher grades.

lol

[inane]

Because more value is placed on education. Parents who value education in this fashion shouldn't have trouble with public schools either. It's just more of a bonus.

My daughter starts school next year, and she'll be doing French immersion (couldn't convince wife to do German immersion so I'll have to teach daughter Bairisch myself), and given it's part of the public school system, it's my job as a parent to often offset some of the liberal brainwashing they'll be trying to impose on her. It really wouldn't be too different in private schools, except I want my kids to experience how the public really is to be able to deal with them appropriately. While learning things is the #1 goal of school, the intangible is social skills and functioning with people of all different flavours. This is a key to business as well, learning how to use the stupidity of the average person to move money from their wallet to yours -- aka marketing.

double lol

[qball]

Private schools. The students consistently have higher grades.

lol

Even if you factor out the significant socio-economic advantage Private School kids have over the general population (which is the single biggest determinant of success in school and beyond), it is well known in education circles that grade inflation is absolutely rampant in the Private Schools. Understandable, given the huge tuition fees parents pay, and the absolute lack of job security Private School teachers have.

LOL indeed...

[Down by the River]

Lol. My girlfriends siblings went to one of the most expensive private schools in the lower mainland. The inmates run the asylum. Teachers fear reprimanding students because behind the student is the person responsible for their paycheck. They got away with murder there.

[Down by the River]

Is it their fault they happen to be better at educating children?

...

Honestly this is one of the dumber comments you'll see from smart people. Sorry for the complisult.

You are ignoring the fact kids who go to private school come from privileged backgrounds. Parents with money typically are well-educated, or at least work in a field where education is valued. They are then going to extend these values to their children. They have the money to hire a tutor. Educated people also are typically aware of proper parenting style, proper nutrition, proper regulation of TV/computer time, etc. I'm not say you need to be rich to understand the value of education, but very rarely do you find someone who is wealthy that does not value education.

Do the best teachers all work at private schools? The answer is plainly no. Many teachers turn down jobs to work at private schools.

Forgot to also mention that private schools have smaller class sizes. The effect of smaller class sizes on overall school performance is stronger than the effect of cardiac bypass surgery on mortality.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

Honestly this is one of the dumber comments you'll see from smart people. Sorry for the complisult.

You are ignoring the fact kids who go to private school come from privileged backgrounds. Parents with money typically are well-educated, or at least work in a field where education is valued. They are then going to extend these values to their children. They have the money to hire a tutor. Educated people also are typically aware of proper parenting style, proper nutrition, proper regulation of TV/computer time, etc. I'm not say you need to be rich to understand the value of education, but very rarely do you find someone who is wealthy that does not value education.

Do the best teachers all work at private schools? The answer is plainly no. Many teachers turn down jobs to work at private schools.

Forgot to also mention that private schools have smaller class sizes. The effect of smaller class sizes on overall school performance is stronger than the effect of cardiac bypass surgery on mortality.

Ron's been in enough of these threads that he's either being willfully obtuse or he has no choice in the matter.

There is also the fact that these are exclusive institutions with entrance requirements so those with learning or social disabilities need not apply. The result of this is unfairly squewed test results which is why the fraser institute rankings have no merit. This is also why private schools should receive 0 dollars in gov't funding. Crusty put another 30 mil into private schooling this year while cutting public funding yet again. She needs to go.

[Sapper]

Private schools. The students consistently have higher grades.

Of course they would - rich kids are not hungry - they don't have anywhere near the same level of social problems that poor families face - have the best that money can buy. Your point simply proves that the goverment is waging class warfare on the working class and working poor. By using the example you have it simply puts an exclamation point on the fact that low wages and a dying middle class are hurting students. Many private schools are religion based. Many staff take less pay then the public system as part of their service to their church. Kills the whole private is better arguement when you factor the above 2 things into the equation.

A public school who had only rich kids - well fed - fully equipped and properly dressed - with few social problems - would get the same results as the private school. Problem is all kids have a right to an education and the public school can't discriminate based on income like a private school is actullay doing when you force the public system to compare to the private one.

[Sapper]

Because more value is placed on education. Parents who value education in this fashion shouldn't have trouble with public schools either. It's just more of a bonus.

My daughter starts school next year, and she'll be doing French immersion (couldn't convince wife to do German immersion so I'll have to teach daughter Bairisch myself), and given it's part of the public school system, it's my job as a parent to often offset some of the liberal brainwashing they'll be trying to impose on her. It really wouldn't be too different in private schools, except I want my kids to experience how the public really is to be able to deal with them appropriately. While learning things is the #1 goal of school, the intangible is social skills and functioning with people of all different flavours. This is a key to business as well, learning how to use the stupidity of the average person to move money from their wallet to yours -- aka marketing.

Completly false. Poor parents put equally as much value on education as rich parents - probably even more. The private school has a smaller class filled with well to do kids with full bellies, proper clothes, and far less social problems outside of class. They also would not have developmentally challenged students. The public class room by comparision has hungry kids - kids going home to an empty house - far more social problems and many classes have developmentally challenged students added into the mix without the proper staffing to assist them.

[Gurn]

"

http://www.ctvnews.c...eases-1.2425462

3.2 Billion?

This should definitely be made known to the public, if that's what they're asking for. This is beyond stupid."

Large province, large population, starting point in negotiations, and this is the school boards dollar number. AKA as a biased source.

[Sapper]

The goverment is factoring in the cost of keeping the cap on classroom sizes when they provide that number. So in fact they are seeking to cut a few Billion from the current budget and have banked on it so deem it as a cost if the cuts are not implimented. Teachers have an opening wage increase of 9% over 3 years and cola. They most likely will end up at 1.5% per year with no Cola. Most of that 3.2 Billion figure is based on the goverment banking on increasing class sizes without adding staff - and they calculate the cost as if asking to just keep what you have is considered raises

[Mr. Ambien]

Completly false. Poor parents put equally as much value on education as rich parents - probably even more. The private school has a smaller class filled with well to do kids with full bellies, proper clothes, and far less social problems outside of class. They also would not have developmentally challenged students. The public class room by comparision has hungry kids - kids going home to an empty house - far more social problems and many classes have developmentally challenged students added into the mix without the proper staffing to assist them.

Most of those problems you elude to are problems easily prevented in the household. Obviously you seem to think it's the government's duty to raise people's kids. This is a belief born from low income people who don't do their job as a parent and wish to pass that responsibility onto others, including myself as a taxpayer.

[Sapper]

To some extent some of the problems could be addressed by the parents - most poverty issues are not fixable in this climate. However the kids coming to class are 100% without blame. More and more we are seeing extremist views

[Down by the River]

Most of those problems you elude to are problems easily prevented in the household. Obviously you seem to think it's the government's duty to raise people's kids. This is a belief born from low income people who don't do their job as a parent and wish to pass that responsibility onto others, including myself as a taxpayer.

The parents should always be responsible, and in no situation should a parent justified in viewing it as the government's responsibility to raise their child. That is what is ideal. But what is the reality?

The reality is that some parent is going to be a $&!#ty person, the mother is going to drink and give her kid FASD, the father is going to split or split the kids lip open when he doesn't listen to his drunken ramblings. Then, you get a kid with FASD entering a class with no ability to regulate his behavior, and no understanding of the importance of regulating their behavior. This kid interrupts the learning environment of other students, drops out, commits crime, has kids of his own, wash, rinse repeat.

Am I saying that the solution is to throw tax payer money at the problem and hope something sticks? No. It should not be the tax payer's responsibility to raise a child that is not their own, unless the choose to do so out of their own will. This is the world we want, but it is not a reality. So, what do we do with the reality?It should be completely fair to tell the parents they are responsible for their own child, but is it fair to that child? That is who I'm concerned about.

What do you think costs taxpayers more money, a program that can help this child, or dealing with this child ten years down the road when he is before the criminal justice system? The Perry Preschool Project in Michigan was saving taxpayers 15 dollars for every one dollar spent.

[Gurn]

Pretty much. I saw the Abbotsford school teacher payroll released for 2013-2014 just the other day. Every single teacher elementary and high school made over 70k a year at the very minimum with more than a few exceeding 100k. But it's not enough; they'll strike and put my mum, a secretary, out of work for days or even a couple weeks for a few dollars more. And of course she gets nothing. And apparently it's illegal for her to go into the school and actually do her job while the teachers are on strike. I don't know why she's part of it because they've never done anything for her.

Say, aren't you the fella whose mom got paid because her union negotiated contract included a clause that covered her wages while the BC Teachers were on strike?

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/362847-parents-getting-paid-for-children-under-13-during-the-strike/page-2

From post # 40

"

The deal includes a wage increase of about five-and-a-half per cent over five years, increased hours for education assistants and improvements to extended health benefit plans through standardization.

CUPE spokesman Rob Hewitt says the deal also includes guaranteed full pay if staff choose to not cross a teacher picket line, but said he doesn't want to compare his negotiations with those of B.C. teachers."

[William_Clarkson]

Whole education system, curriculum, and role of the teacher needs to be changed. As of right now, many teachers don't really deserve a whole lot, since most of the smart students are much better teachers than they are. I think teachers should be highly paid, but not with the current system.

Although, I think Ontario schools are better, but I'm not sure.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

Just FYI. Ontario high school teachers with 10 years experience make about $12k more a year at the top of the payscale and they get twice the prep. BC teachers get 1 prep block in an 8 block rotation, Ontario teachers get 2.