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Brock Boeser | #6 | RW


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11 hours ago, wildcam said:

I don't think Boeser is a 40 goal scorer...... I feel he will average 25 - 30 goals top..

Last 3 seasons and last year was on pace for 25 goals..

1. 2017 -18 - GP 62 -- 29 G

2. 2018 -19 - GP 69  - 26 G

3. 2019-20 -  GP 57 -  16 G

I would trade Boeser for a top #2 D man and resign Taffoli,  he plays a more complete game and will score 30 goals playing with Petey....

Trade Boeser -- For # 2 D man 

1. Risto - Buffalo -  26, 6'4, 220 - 40 point guy will look good in Vancouver.. Plays big minutes on a poor team in Buffalo..

2. Severson  - Devils  26, 6'2 - Solid 2 way D man

3. Pesce -  Hurricanes 26, 6'4 solid D man

4.Dumba - Minn , 26 , 6'0 -solid D man 

Just a few guys but we need to upgrade the defence on the Canucks this summer...

Edlers 33  needs to play less  minutes 18 - 21 no more 25 mins need him healthy--- Tanev UFA hard miles and injury prone would not sign him over 3.8 million.

TT should play a more complete game he is an experienced vet. Boeser is 23 and just completed his 3rd NHL season. He has size and a wicked shot. I am not saying he is not tradeable as any player is moveable. I agree that the defense is the most area in need.   

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10 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

progress maybe, if so then he still has value enough to be a main piece in getting us a top 2 d man

Miller-Petey-Brock

Pearson-Bo-Toffoli 

 

gives us one o the best top 6's in the league. Why would we rush to change that if we don't have to? 

 

Maybe if Podkolzin and/or Hoglander come in and prove they can score in the 30 range, maybe then we think about moving a too 6 piece but not before imo. 

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7 hours ago, kloubek said:

I would agree that with Hogs and Podz coming soon that we need that #2d more than we need Boeser.

 

Severson would be a great add. Risto is big but a defensive disaster. We need guys who can help the d - not make it even more porus. 

 

I think we really want Tanev back. He has proven he can be more durable supporting Hughes, and by all accounts is a great leader for our youth.

Ristolainen isn’t a defence disaster... he is asked to do too much on a terrible team.

 

The bonus of trading Boeser would be that you add to our defence and can afford to sign Tanev as well as getting another top 4D.  It doesn’t mean we “should” trade Boeser it is just that there are some benefits to it considering the cap limitations.

 

Hughes-Tanev

Edler-Ristolainen

Juolevi-Myers

Rathbone/Rafferty/Chatfield

 

That is suddenly a lot better D than this past season.  I love Stecher more than most, but if you can upgrade you have to do it.  Benning’s comments sure suggested they don’t see Stecher as a future piece.

 

I wouldn’t normally say having young prospects on the roster and not playing every game, but this coming year practicing with the big club may be the best option compared with whatever limited playing opportunities there will be elsewhere.  Also with a compressed NHL season, we could do load management and platoon guys in to rest our starting 6D.  If you could give 10-15 games off to our older guys and Hughes over a season it could mean they don’t get hurt and worn down before the playoffs.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Ristolainen isn’t a defence disaster... he is asked to do too much on a terrible team.

 

The bonus of trading Boeser would be that you add to our defence and can afford to sign Tanev as well as getting another top 4D.  It doesn’t mean we “should” trade Boeser it is just that there are some benefits to it considering the cap limitations.

 

Hughes-Tanev

Edler-Ristolainen

Juolevi-Myers

Rathbone/Rafferty/Chatfield

 

That is suddenly a lot better D than this past season.  I love Stecher more than most, but if you can upgrade you have to do it.  Benning’s comments sure suggested they don’t see Stecher as a future piece.

 

I wouldn’t normally say having young prospects on the roster and not playing every game, but this coming year practicing with the big club may be the best option compared with whatever limited playing opportunities there will be elsewhere.  Also with a compressed NHL season, we could do load management and platoon guys in to rest our starting 6D.  If you could give 10-15 games off to our older guys and Hughes over a season it could mean they don’t get hurt and worn down before the playoffs.

 

 

I'd much rather try to work something around Jake+prospect(s) for Risto than Brock. Buffalo is apparently one of the teams on the self-imposed internal cap of ~70 mil or so, so with Jake as our primary roster player in the deal that can save 2 to 2.5 mil in the deal. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

I'd much rather try to work something around Jake+prospect(s) for Risto than Brock. Buffalo is apparently one of the teams on the self-imposed internal cap of ~70 mil or so, so with Jake as our primary roster player in the deal that can save 2 to 2.5 mil in the deal. 

 

It sounds like Krueger is going to have a much larger say in roster decisions.  Before the firing he was saying that he hopes to have Ristolainen as a core player for a long time.  

 

Friedman believes that they might not qualify Montour because of the arbitration risk.  If they let him walk they are down to 5 Ds - Ristolainen, Miller, McCabe, Dahlin and Jokiharju.  Colin Miller has been in Krueger's dog house and has still 2 years at 3.875M.  CapFriendly also shows Pilut as RFA but he signed in the KHL after spending most of his season in the AHL.  

 

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1 hour ago, Robert Long said:

Miller-Petey-Brock

Pearson-Bo-Toffoli 

 

gives us one o the best top 6's in the league. Why would we rush to change that if we don't have to? 

 

Maybe if Podkolzin and/or Hoglander come in and prove they can score in the 30 range, maybe then we think about moving a too 6 piece but not before imo. 

Who or what do we use to land us a pot 2 d man? Our defense needs more improvement then our offense. Like you said we have Hogs and Podz in the system and expect them to be here next season and Raff and OJ are expected on defense but loosing Edler and possibly Tanev, Stetcher and Benn means we need a top 2 d man to improve our d core

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I don't think Boeser is getting traded anytime soon. He has a decent contract and great character. Would be great if Brock could score 25-30 every season. Can't ask for much more from a #23. He's still young and has had some bad injury luck. If he can stay healthy, he'll be a great player for years. When he becomes an RFA in 2 years, and is expected to make around $7.5, I can see Benning offering him around $6, then another team offering him the $7.5. Brock, being Brock, will re-sign in VAN for what Benning offers. 

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56 minutes ago, Sbriggs said:

Who or what do we use to land us a pot 2 d man? Our defense needs more improvement then our offense. Like you said we have Hogs and Podz in the system and expect them to be here next season and Raff and OJ are expected on defense but loosing Edler and possibly Tanev, Stetcher and Benn means we need a top 2 d man to improve our d core

We may simply need to be patient.

 

Edler and Tanev are likely both here for a few more years and we have Juolevi and Rathbone, both of whom have top 4 potential. Adding them may not bring us the #2 you seek but it does give us potentially VERY good depth and potentially something close to three solid 'second' pairs. Which is not dissimilar to what we had in 2011 when we were arguably the best team in the league.

 

From there, we might need to wait for guys like Hogs/Podz to actually make someone expendable in trade. Or a UFA to make sense. Or luck out on a later draft pick turning in to one etc, etc.

 

But we will continue to see slow, gradual improvement as guys like Juolevi, Rathbone, Woo etc make the team the next couple years. I know that's probably not the magic cure-all you're looking for, but that's likely reality.

 

And if Virtanen isn't used to dump one of Eriksson/Sutter or to recoup a pick, perhaps he's part of a package for a potential 2nd pair D (hopefully with sneaky-Benning, JT Miller-like 1st pair upside).

 

However it shakes out, I doubt we're trading Boeser anytime soon.

Edited by aGENT
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50 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I don't think Boeser is getting traded anytime soon. He has a decent contract and great character. Would be great if Brock could score 25-30 every season. Can't ask for much more from a #23. He's still young and has had some bad injury luck. If he can stay healthy, he'll be a great player for years. When he becomes an RFA in 2 years, and is expected to make around $7.5, I can see Benning offering him around $6, then another team offering him the $7.5. Brock, being Brock, will re-sign in VAN for what Benning offers. 

If Benning offers 6, Brock could just elect to take the qualifying offer (which has to be 7.5 or Brock can become a UFA).

 

I think the elephant in the room with Brock is that he hasn't been the play driver he was in his rookie season these past two years.  Whether that's due to injury or increased attention from opposing defenses it's tough to say.  That being said, and this playoff run showed it, Brock has made other parts of his game stronger to compensate for the lack of play driving.

 

If he can combine the player he was in the playoffs with the play driver he was in his rookie season, 7.5 million will be a bargain. 

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

We may simply need to be patient.

 

Edler and Tanev are likely both here for a few more years and we have Juolevi and Rathbone, both of whom have top 4 potential. Adding them may not bring us the #2 you seek but it does give us potentially VERY good depth and potentially something close to three solid 'second' pairs. Which is not dissimilar to what we had in 2011 when we were arguably the best team in the league.

 

From there, we might need to wait for guys like Hogs/Podz to actually make someone expendable in trade. Or a UFA to make sense. Or luck out on a later draft pick turning in to one etc, etc.

 

But we will continue to see slow, gradual improvement as guys like Juolevi, Rathbone, Woo etc make the team the next couple years. I know that's probably not the magic cure-all you're looking for, but that's likely reality.

 

And if Virtanen isn't used to dump one of Eriksson/Sutter or to recoup a pick, perhaps he's part of a package for a potential 2nd pair D (hopefully with sneaky-Benning, JT Miller-like 1st pair upside).

 

However it shakes out, I doubt we're trading Boeser anytime soon.

Unfortunately Virt is not even close to get us a top 2 d man. I think If we use Brock & Virt to land a top 2 d man and we let Tanev & Stetcher walk. Thats over 13.5 mil off the books and we can land a 5-7 mil d man.

 

Hughes xxxxxx

edler Rafferty

Oj   Myers

Rathbone

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2 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

Who or what do we use to land us a pot 2 d man? Our defense needs more improvement then our offense. Like you said we have Hogs and Podz in the system and expect them to be here next season and Raff and OJ are expected on defense but loosing Edler and possibly Tanev, Stetcher and Benn means we need a top 2 d man to improve our d core

Rathbone, Juolevi and patience. 

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

@Sbriggs, Benning could also surprise us all and sign Pietrangelo this offseason instead of Tanev etc :lol:

I wonder if Jake for Colin Miller could be a trade.... it would save Buffalo ~1 mil in cap and someone was saying Krueger doesn't like him. Thats a nice upgrade on Stech, or a serviceable Tanev type on the cheap. 

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1 hour ago, Sbriggs said:

Unfortunately Virt is not even close to get us a top 2 d man. I think If we use Brock & Virt to land a top 2 d man and we let Tanev & Stetcher walk. Thats over 13.5 mil off the books and we can land a 5-7 mil d man.

 

Hughes xxxxxx

edler Rafferty

Oj   Myers

Rathbone

You'll note, that's not actually what I said.

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On 9/8/2020 at 4:21 PM, Provost said:

I am going to really be curious whether Boeser ends up staying or not.  There is plenty on both sides of the argument on keeping him

Pro's
- right age profile for our core

- fits well with the team chemistry
- has potential to be a perennial 30 goal/70 point player

Con's
- some signs he may not keep progressing and will end up being a complementary 50-60 point guy (not too shabby at all, but a good, not "elite" player)

- his contract structure means he gets really expensive to qualify really soon and with a flat cap may not be good value
- has his family issues and may just want to be nearer home or even just in the USA an easy flight away.. so may not be a Canucks lifer anyways
- He has significant trade value right now and would return us nice assets

There is definitely an argument to reap some rewards for him in trade and then use some of those assets to replace him and then some.  You could get a top 4D and even get a winger with similar production from a cap strapped team.  If you could trade Boeser and end up with Ristolainen and Killorn for example... you are definitely ahead in the short and medium term.

That is the part of me that questions whether Brock has a long term future with this organization.  No question Brock is still a very solid offensive contributor to our team, but as you said, his evolution of his game has become a more complimentary player rather than a play driving offensive player as we saw him in North Dakota and his first season with the club.

 

Still great to get 50-60 points from a complementary player like Brock, but with his contract to expire in 2 years with a QO at 7.5 mil and likely a relatively flat cap/lack of increase, do you really want to pay 7+ mil for a guy who is at best a complementary player?  My argument would be no, you spend that kind of money of players who can sustain play not just on a good line but on their own as well, which I don't think Brock generally is able to do on his own.  In addition, you can find good complementary players offensively for cheaper costs, because once you start paying for expensive complementary piece, you get a Loui Eriksson situation.

 

I still believe Brock can get back to being able to drive play on his own, and thought he did better as the playoffs went along, but at points too he looked too dependent on Miller and Pettersson to do the work.  There were moments of brilliance for Brock, and moments where I questioned his overall commitment and engagement in the game.

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8 hours ago, Robert Long said:

I'd much rather try to work something around Jake+prospect(s) for Risto than Brock. Buffalo is apparently one of the teams on the self-imposed internal cap of ~70 mil or so, so with Jake as our primary roster player in the deal that can save 2 to 2.5 mil in the deal. 

 

I would like to trade Jake and a prospect (not named Hoglander or Podkolzin) for Risto too... unfortunately Buffalo's GM has something to say in the decision and would think that is just silly compared with what he could get from other teams.  He isn't giving away a valuable asset just to save cap space.

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5 hours ago, Wilbur said:

If Benning offers 6, Brock could just elect to take the qualifying offer (which has to be 7.5 or Brock can become a UFA).

 

I think the elephant in the room with Brock is that he hasn't been the play driver he was in his rookie season these past two years.  Whether that's due to injury or increased attention from opposing defenses it's tough to say.  That being said, and this playoff run showed it, Brock has made other parts of his game stronger to compensate for the lack of play driving.

 

If he can combine the player he was in the playoffs with the play driver he was in his rookie season, 7.5 million will be a bargain. 

We can't keep every one? you have Pettersson and Hughes to sign next summer???Boeser will want 7.5 next contract and he is both worth that kind of money>>

 

2021-2022

Pettersson 9.5 - 10 million 

Hughes   7.5 - 8 million -- ---Chabot 8 million comparable..

 

Next season

Erickson 6.0

Myers 6.0

Boeser -- 5.8---- Would trade next contract 7.5 ---- Trade for #2 D man

Horvat      5.6

Markstrom 5.5  ???? - I am okay trading his rights for 3rd rounder -- sign veteran backup to play with Demko for under 2.5 million..---- save 3 million

Miller - 5.3 million

Taffoli -- UFA -- sign 2 yr 4.8  -- he will put up good numbers and try UFA when cap issues are over---  Now trade Boeser after signing Taffoli will score 30 G-- 65 points

Tanev UFA  ---would not sign him over 3.8 million 

Virtanen -RFA -- He will be traded for picks or packaged

Leivo -- Sign -- 1.8 X 2 yrs- can play up and down lineup..

MacEwen -- sign 1.1 x 2yrs one way deal -- showing improvement every year..

Motte -- sign 2 X 1.3 million

Stetcher  -  RFA-- trade --- Rafferty will fill #5 spot  or Juolevi 

 

Have to be realistic we cannot keep everyone, all teams have these issues cap issues...Tough decisions

 

Edited by wildcam
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44 minutes ago, wildcam said:

We can't keep every one? you have Pettersson and Hughes to sign next summer???Boeser will want 7.5 next contract and he is both worth that kind of money>>

 

2021-2022

Pettersson 9.5 - 10 million 

Hughes   7.5 - 8 million -- ---Chabot 8 million comparable..

 

Next season

Erickson 6.0

Myers 6.0

Boeser -- 5.8---- Would trade next contract 7.5 ---- Trade for #2 D man

Horvat      5.6

Markstrom 5.5  ???? - I am okay trading his rights for 3rd rounder -- sign veteran backup to play with Demko for under 2.5 million..---- save 3 million

Miller - 5.3 million

Taffoli -- UFA -- sign 2 yr 4.8  -- he will put up good numbers and try UFA when cap issues are over---  Now trade Boeser after signing Taffoli will score 30 G-- 65 points

Tanev UFA  ---would not sign him over 3.8 million 

Virtanen -RFA -- He will be traded for picks or packaged

Leivo -- Sign -- 1.8 X 2 yrs- can play up and down lineup..

MacEwen -- sign 1.1 x 2yrs one way deal -- showing improvement every year..

Motte -- sign 2 X 1.3 million

Stetcher  -  RFA-- trade --- Rafferty will fill #5 spot  or Juolevi 

 

Have to be realistic we cannot keep everyone, all teams have these issues cap issues...Tough decisions

 

we finally have our top 6 and you want to trade away one of our top six?  seems silly when the Canucks have worked so hard to get that top six.  Benning is a smart guy and he will make the right choice on who to trade, because if it has to be a top six Benning has already said Boeser is going nowhere, so i would say it would be Toffoli being traded, but i hope he keeps the top six intact. 

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1 hour ago, wildcam said:

We can't keep every one? you have Pettersson and Hughes to sign next summer???Boeser will want 7.5 next contract and he is both worth that kind of money>>

 

2021-2022

Pettersson 9.5 - 10 million 

Hughes   7.5 - 8 million -- ---Chabot 8 million comparable..

 

Next season

Erickson 6.0

Myers 6.0

Boeser -- 5.8---- Would trade next contract 7.5 ---- Trade for #2 D man

Horvat      5.6

Markstrom 5.5  ???? - I am okay trading his rights for 3rd rounder -- sign veteran backup to play with Demko for under 2.5 million..---- save 3 million

Miller - 5.3 million

Taffoli -- UFA -- sign 2 yr 4.8  -- he will put up good numbers and try UFA when cap issues are over---  Now trade Boeser after signing Taffoli will score 30 G-- 65 points

Tanev UFA  ---would not sign him over 3.8 million 

Virtanen -RFA -- He will be traded for picks or packaged

Leivo -- Sign -- 1.8 X 2 yrs- can play up and down lineup..

MacEwen -- sign 1.1 x 2yrs one way deal -- showing improvement every year..

Motte -- sign 2 X 1.3 million

Stetcher  -  RFA-- trade --- Rafferty will fill #5 spot  or Juolevi 

 

Have to be realistic we cannot keep everyone, all teams have these issues cap issues...Tough decisions

 

 

Kevin Woodley calls insane the idea that people think that the Canucks could just add someone like Greiss or Khudobin and think they'll perform in Vancouver.  Canucks were a bottom-5 defensive team while NYI and Dallas were top-5 defensively.  It could end up being a Bobrovsky situation where he went from a very good defensive team to a poor one. 

 

Don't see the Canucks wanting to move Boeser.  Pearson is up in a year too and who knows if anyone else can even fill up those spots yet.  Doesn't feel like Benning wants to risk taking a step back. Don't really see a team giving up a D2 for Boeser.  It's harder to find Ds than wingers.  It's also doubtful that many teams want his 7.5M qualifying offer when it's a flat cap.

 

Not sure RFA with arbitration rights have much value in a pandemic.  Friedman actually believes that there might be more players going unqualified this year as teams don't want to risk arbitration.  It is forbidden to use the league or the team's financial condition as argument in arbitration per the CBA - ie they can't argue drop in revenue or flat cap to lower the contract value.  The player side can present comparable contracts but those were handed out when there was no pandemic and the cap was not projected to stay flat.

 

Edited by mll
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1 hour ago, mll said:

 

Kevin Woodley calls insane the idea that people think that the Canucks could just add someone like Greiss or Khudobin and think they'll perform in Vancouver.  Canucks were a bottom-5 defensive team while NYI and Dallas were top-5 defensively.  It could end up being a Bobrovsky situation where he went from a very good defensive team to a poor one. 

 

Don't see the Canucks wanting to move Boeser.  Pearson is up in a year too and who knows if anyone else can even fill up those spots yet.  Doesn't feel like Benning wants to risk taking a step back. Don't really see a team giving up a D2 for Boeser.  It's harder to find Ds than wingers.  It's also doubtful that many teams want his 7.5M qualifying offer when it's a flat cap.

 

Not sure RFA with arbitration rights have much value in a pandemic.  Friedman actually believes that there might be more players going unqualified this year as teams don't want to risk arbitration.  It is forbidden to use the league or the team's financial condition as argument in arbitration per the CBA - ie they can't argue drop in revenue or flat cap to lower the contract value.  The player side can present comparable contracts but those were handed out when there was no pandemic and the cap was not projected to stay flat.

 

thats pretty unfair, but it is what it is. I don't think Jake or Stech get a QO from us, assuming we can't trade them in the next couple of weeks.

 

Woodley may say that, but thats the situation we may very well be in depending on what Marky wants. I don't think its the doomsday scenario he's suggesting, there is a good chance of upgrading our defence if we don't sign Marky as we'll have more cap space. 

 

 

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