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11 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

I was watching the Comets games last night and tonight and have been very impressed with GB.  As he puts on a little muscle I think he could be a #2 or #3 defenseman.  He may even be ready next year for some NHL games.

Coming out of junior, word was that he was mobile and had a Tanev-like cool to his game, and showed some offensive upside.  That about right, or what else have you noticed?

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9 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Coming out of junior, word was that he was mobile and had a Tanev-like cool to his game, and showed some offensive upside.  That about right, or what else have you noticed?

I have been suprised at his physicality.  He doesn't shy away from the corners at all.  Also he is starting to develop the offensive side to his game.  He is a quick skater with good balence as well.  I would consider him one of our best D prospects.

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13 minutes ago, dpn1 said:

I have been suprised at his physicality.  He doesn't shy away from the corners at all.  Also he is starting to develop the offensive side to his game.  He is a quick skater with good balence as well.  I would consider him one of our best D prospects.

To be fair that isn't saying much.

 

It is nice to get some feedback on how he has been doing this year, I've been wondering how his game would develop. 

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4 hours ago, cyoung said:

He needs another full season in Utica for sure but we are starting to see him get the confidence at the pro level. 

 

2 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

That's great to hear. The progression of Brisebois and Chatfield (and McEneny, but unfortunate injury) was the one of the main things to follow in Utica this year.

I think you are right about one more year in Utica for Brisebois & Chafield and we may see them the next year.

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4 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

To be fair that isn't saying much.

It is what it is. I think we’re looking ok for future bottom pairing guys and depth defensemen. At this point, I figure at least a couple of our D prospects will pan out as modestly successful NHLers. Maybe some of them beat the odds (and Brisebois fits in here) and push into middle pairing range. But other than Juolevi, we don’t appear to have many future top-4 guys. Probably need to add at least 2-3 high upside Ds in this draft and the next, and sprinkle in a few longshots with later picks before I’m feeling too good about the system depth on D.

 

That all said, you can change things in a hurry through trades and free agency. But we still need to build up our defensemen prospects regardless.

 

Obviously none of this is a secret and JB has been pretty clear that improving the D side of the prospects pool is at the top of the current team agenda.

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I think Brisebois and Chatfield are very underrated dmen that will go fairly unnoticed until they impress with the big club. I see them very much like Tanev who many call a top 2 dman or putting Tanev in some pretty crazy proposals. They seem to be very good defensively, but not a whole lot to show for offensively, which is fine if/when we add more high calibre offensive guys. They are mobile and good enough puck movers and also can handle the physical part of the game.

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2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It is what it is. I think we’re looking ok for future bottom pairing guys and depth defensemen. At this point, I figure at least a couple of our D prospects will pan out as modestly successful NHLers. Maybe some of them beat the odds (and Brisebois fits in here) and push into middle pairing range. But other than Juolevi, we don’t appear to have many future top-4 guys. Probably need to add at least 2-3 high upside Ds in this draft and the next, and sprinkle in a few longshots with later picks before I’m feeling too good about the system depth on D.

 

That all said, you can change things in a hurry through trades and free agency. But we still need to build up our defensemen prospects regardless.

 

Obviously none of this is a secret and JB has been pretty clear that improving the D side of the prospects pool is at the top of the current team agenda.

Ya I'm excited and nervous to see what Benning will do to shore up the defensive side of our prospects. 

 

I'm a little nervous because while he's shown to be able to draft and find excellent forward talent so far,  with his pro scouting he's been less than stellar evaluating defenseman.  I mean picking up Sbisa in the Kelser trade then signing him to a 4m a year contract with the expectations he's going to be a solid top 4 defender was a big tell all.  Same with Gudbranson, I don't mind Guddy but it seems Benning is just a bit off on his expectations of what these defenseman can do.  Hopefully, as we've seen with Benning so far is that his amateur scouting is much better than his pro scouting and he really hasn't used many of his picks yet on defenseman. 

 

It's too early to really get a read on what Juolevi will turn into and other than that Breisbois seems to be doing decent for a 3rd rounder.  Rathbone is way to far off to have any idea so really we haven't had much to go on to judge what Benning can do with his amatuer scouting of defenseman but he has shown to be pretty dismal at evaluating the talent level of NHL defenseman. Although he does get some brownie points for getting Pouliot, he has potential. 

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9 hours ago, dpn1 said:

I have been suprised at his physicality.  He doesn't shy away from the corners at all.  Also he is starting to develop the offensive side to his game.  He is a quick skater with good balence as well.  I would consider him one of our best D prospects.

Should also note, it was indicated that after his d+1 year he grew (I think) a couple inches and added more weight.  The fact he was named team captain in his first year also says something.

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5 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Ya I'm excited and nervous to see what Benning will do to shore up the defensive side of our prospects. 

 

I'm a little nervous because while he's shown to be able to draft and find excellent forward talent so far,  with his pro scouting he's been less than stellar evaluating defenseman.  I mean picking up Sbisa in the Kelser trade then signing him to a 4m a year contract with the expectations he's going to be a solid top 4 defender was a big tell all.  Same with Gudbranson, I don't mind Guddy but it seems Benning is just a bit off on his expectations of what these defenseman can do.  Hopefully, as we've seen with Benning so far is that his amateur scouting is much better than his pro scouting and he really hasn't used many of his picks yet on defenseman. 

 

It's too early to really get a read on what Juolevi will turn into and other than that Breisbois seems to be doing decent for a 3rd rounder.  Rathbone is way to far off to have any idea so really we haven't had much to go on to judge what Benning can do with his amatuer scouting of defenseman but he has shown to be pretty dismal at evaluating the talent level of NHL defenseman. Although he does get some brownie points for getting Pouliot, he has potential. 

Let's put into perspective the Kesler trade that involved Sbisa also included Bonino and a 1st (McCann) and a 3rd (traded for Dorsett). The Canucks were hopeful that Sbisa would become a top 4 guy but he was a bottom pairing dman when acquired. He was transitioning from that bottom pairing role into a top 4 role so mistakes were made. By the time the final Canucks season came around he was worth his 4 million stepping into a top 4 role after injuries happened and looked decent while being the only dman that year to play a full season. He was picked up by Vegas and was having a career year before getting injured. Sbisa had become that top 4 guy that Benning thought he would become, just unfortunate that the expansion draft took him away. He looked decent with a more high powered offensive team, one that we are slowly trying to become rather than the trap team that he was stuck on for a few years.

 

We have yet to see Gudbranson at his best, but we know what kind of physical intimidator he can be. Benning has also brought in Stetcher who looks excellent and would be a force if only he was slightly bigger. As you mentioned, he has brought in Pouliot who has shown glimpses of potential. He has also brought in Chatfield and McEneny who could become bottom pairing NHL dmen. Let's not forget he brought in Holm for free and was able to flip him for Leipsic so a team also saw potential in Holm to give up a decent young prospect/project player. We surely need more high end dmen (Juolevi could/should be one), but that is more likely to be found through the draft rather than through the pro scouting as teams are less likely to be giving them up.

 

Benning and his scouting staff have made mistakes (eg Larsen), but I think they've made enough decent decisions that make me not feel too concerned about the talent evaluation.

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18 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It is what it is. I think we’re looking ok for future bottom pairing guys and depth defensemen. At this point, I figure at least a couple of our D prospects will pan out as modestly successful NHLers. Maybe some of them beat the odds (and Brisebois fits in here) and push into middle pairing range. But other than Juolevi, we don’t appear to have many future top-4 guys. Probably need to add at least 2-3 high upside Ds in this draft and the next, and sprinkle in a few longshots with later picks before I’m feeling too good about the system depth on D.

 

That all said, you can change things in a hurry through trades and free agency. But we still need to build up our defensemen prospects regardless.

 

Obviously none of this is a secret and JB has been pretty clear that improving the D side of the prospects pool is at the top of the current team agenda.

I think your comments are bang on. Currently the only top pairing d-man on the Canucks is Edler IMHO. Yes, I consider Tanev a solid 2nd pairing. Stecher & Tryamkin might be  2nd pairing capable. MDZ, Hutton, and Guddy are bottom pairings. My take on Poiliot is that he likely doesn't make it. Joulevi might be 2nd pairing but I want to see more of him. Cannot comment on Utica d-men as I have not seen enough. Really excited about McEnney  as I saw him in Penticton and was very impressed. Losing a season won't help him. 

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16 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Let's put into perspective the Kesler trade that involved Sbisa also included Bonino and a 1st (McCann) and a 3rd (traded for Dorsett). The Canucks were hopeful that Sbisa would become a top 4 guy but he was a bottom pairing dman when acquired. He was transitioning from that bottom pairing role into a top 4 role so mistakes were made. By the time the final Canucks season came around he was worth his 4 million stepping into a top 4 role after injuries happened and looked decent while being the only dman that year to play a full season. He was picked up by Vegas and was having a career year before getting injured. Sbisa had become that top 4 guy that Benning thought he would become, just unfortunate that the expansion draft took him away. He looked decent with a more high powered offensive team, one that we are slowly trying to become rather than the trap team that he was stuck on for a few years.

 

We have yet to see Gudbranson at his best, but we know what kind of physical intimidator he can be. Benning has also brought in Stetcher who looks excellent and would be a force if only he was slightly bigger. As you mentioned, he has brought in Pouliot who has shown glimpses of potential. He has also brought in Chatfield and McEneny who could become bottom pairing NHL dmen. Let's not forget he brought in Holm for free and was able to flip him for Leipsic so a team also saw potential in Holm to give up a decent young prospect/project player. We surely need more high end dmen (Juolevi could/should be one), but that is more likely to be found through the draft rather than through the pro scouting as teams are less likely to be giving them up.

 

Benning and his scouting staff have made mistakes (eg Larsen), but I think they've made enough decent decisions that make me not feel too concerned about the talent evaluation.

I think you're reaching a bit to call Sbisa a bonafide top 4 player.  You're basically ignoring 3 seasons of playing here as the pizza delivery man and taking a 30 game sample size from Vegas to conclude that Benning was right on his assessment of Sbisa.  Sbisa has a team worst corsi of 43% on Vegas so I'm not so sure it's safe to call him the top 4 defenseman that Benning thought he would be.

 

As for as Gudbranson saying we have yet to see what he can bring after 2 full seasons at the age of 26 is a lot like Sbisa, it's hoping on a player becoming the player you want to be, not what he is. Benning seems to pro scout like he amateur scouts, expecting these older guys to develop into something else.  I don't think Gudbranson is a bad player or a bad signing but when you heard Benning talk about how good he was and what his role would be as a top 4 defenseman then watched him play you could see there was a disconnect.  

 

Also we're forgetting about Clendenning for Forsling,  how he thought Clendenning was an NHL defenseman is another big question mark on his ability to evaluate defenseman at an NHL level and like you mentioned Larsen too.

 

Any of these on their own and you don't really blink an eye. But Sbisa, Gudbranson, Larsen, Clendenning. All guys that were evaluated poorly, all moves that made you question what he was thinking and getting Stecher who was a college free agent signing that wanted to come home and play for the Canucks and Pouliot who is still another guy who is a hopeful to be a bonafide top 4 defenseman doesn't really balance it out to bring confidence into his ability to evaluate defenseman at the NHL level.  

 

Compared to his trades and signing for forward talent at the NHL level where he has had some misses (Vey, Eriksson) but also some wins (Baertchi, Dorsett) and it evens out and brings confidence that while he may miss on a few he'll still hit on a few and find talent.  

 

Anyway I don't want to turn this whole thread into a Benning debate. Just couldn't resist throwing out my 2c

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a little bump for the next player in our system who will become a regular with the big club next year.  

 

Okay, to get back into the present from the future, can anyone update us on his games lately? I see that he's had an assist in each of the last two games.  

 

I'm not seeing the box scores for the games.

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9 hours ago, Derp... said:

Brisebois is scoring at a slightly higher clip .25 than Chris Tanev .23 did in his first AHL season. 

I've been saying for a while, I think he's our eventual Tanev replacement.

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On 2018-03-04 at 11:08 PM, theo5789 said:

Let's put into perspective the Kesler trade that involved Sbisa also included Bonino and a 1st (McCann) and a 3rd (traded for Dorsett). The Canucks were hopeful that Sbisa would become a top 4 guy but he was a bottom pairing dman when acquired. He was transitioning from that bottom pairing role into a top 4 role so mistakes were made. By the time the final Canucks season came around he was worth his 4 million stepping into a top 4 role after injuries happened and looked decent while being the only dman that year to play a full season. He was picked up by Vegas and was having a career year before getting injured. Sbisa had become that top 4 guy that Benning thought he would become, just unfortunate that the expansion draft took him away. He looked decent with a more high powered offensive team, one that we are slowly trying to become rather than the trap team that he was stuck on for a few years.

 

We have yet to see Gudbranson at his best, but we know what kind of physical intimidator he can be. Benning has also brought in Stetcher who looks excellent and would be a force if only he was slightly bigger. As you mentioned, he has brought in Pouliot who has shown glimpses of potential. He has also brought in Chatfield and McEneny who could become bottom pairing NHL dmen. Let's not forget he brought in Holm for free and was able to flip him for Leipsic so a team also saw potential in Holm to give up a decent young prospect/project player. We surely need more high end dmen (Juolevi could/should be one), but that is more likely to be found through the draft rather than through the pro scouting as teams are less likely to be giving them up.

 

Benning and his scouting staff have made mistakes (eg Larsen), but I think they've made enough decent decisions that make me not feel too concerned about the talent evaluation.

Man, what a pile of excuses!  Sbisa played in the top six because everybody ahead of him was hurt and because Benning had signed him to an outrageous contract for what he showed (when he wasn’t hurt).  Basically let’s just concede that he was ta seven or eight defenseman on a 28th place team.    Gudbranson is a bottom pairing D on a team about to finish last in the league.  Juolevi has proven nothing while several D in the same draft are in their second year in the league.  Pouliot is a Pittsburg reject with good reason.  About Stetcher, you said it all yourself - he’d be wonderful, if only he was bigger... he’s not going to get any bigger, he is exactly what you see - a small energetic defenseman that brings no offence.  He is only playing because we are a last place team and we have no-one else.  If this team is to ever again become a contender, the only players currently on the roster that will be playing for it will be Boeser, Horvat, and maybe Leipsic and Virtanen.  All the rest will have been replaced and upgraded, if they aren’t, we will still be at the bottom of the league.  That is why there is no excuse for keeping the Sedins for another year, and why there is no excuse for not trading any of the others for whatever draft picks he can acquire.

 

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On 19/03/2018 at 11:12 PM, VancouverHabitant said:

Just a little bump for the next player in our system who will become a regular with the big club next year.  

 

Okay, to get back into the present from the future, can anyone update us on his games lately? I see that he's had an assist in each of the last two games.  

 

I'm not seeing the box scores for the games.

I think he'll get a look next year but I don't expect him to be a regular yet. I like Brisebois, but with the current landscape of defense on this team, I don't see a spot for him. This can change of course with off season moves, but for now, I expect most of his season to be in the A next year.

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On 3/5/2018 at 4:31 PM, Ihatetomatoes said:

I think you're reaching a bit to call Sbisa a bonafide top 4 player.  You're basically ignoring 3 seasons of playing here as the pizza delivery man and taking a 30 game sample size from Vegas to conclude that Benning was right on his assessment of Sbisa.  Sbisa has a team worst corsi of 43% on Vegas so I'm not so sure it's safe to call him the top 4 defenseman that Benning thought he would be.

 

As for as Gudbranson saying we have yet to see what he can bring after 2 full seasons at the age of 26 is a lot like Sbisa, it's hoping on a player becoming the player you want to be, not what he is. Benning seems to pro scout like he amateur scouts, expecting these older guys to develop into something else.  I don't think Gudbranson is a bad player or a bad signing but when you heard Benning talk about how good he was and what his role would be as a top 4 defenseman then watched him play you could see there was a disconnect.  

 

Also we're forgetting about Clendenning for Forsling,  how he thought Clendenning was an NHL defenseman is another big question mark on his ability to evaluate defenseman at an NHL level and like you mentioned Larsen too.

 

Any of these on their own and you don't really blink an eye. But Sbisa, Gudbranson, Larsen, Clendenning. All guys that were evaluated poorly, all moves that made you question what he was thinking and getting Stecher who was a college free agent signing that wanted to come home and play for the Canucks and Pouliot who is still another guy who is a hopeful to be a bonafide top 4 defenseman doesn't really balance it out to bring confidence into his ability to evaluate defenseman at the NHL level.  

 

Compared to his trades and signing for forward talent at the NHL level where he has had some misses (Vey, Eriksson) but also some wins (Baertchi, Dorsett) and it evens out and brings confidence that while he may miss on a few he'll still hit on a few and find talent.  

 

Anyway I don't want to turn this whole thread into a Benning debate. Just couldn't resist throwing out my 2c

How can you say JB messed up with Sbisa and Guddy? Guddy has been injured almost the whole 2 years he has been here wouldn't it be more accurate to assess his play while in Florida? As for Sbisa you throw out one Corsi stat yet fail to mention all his positive stats, a little bit of cherry picking IMHO. Also when it comes to Adam. At the time we needed players in A certain age group, I don't think JB really thought of him as a top 4 more of just a stop gap. Pouliot has been improving his D the last few months and is second in scoring. His plus minus has also dropped quite a bit FWIW. Its way to early to say Forsling will become anything special after such A small sample size. We all thought wrong on Hutton after he had one good year.  I respect your opinion, just A little different than mine. Cheers.

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21 hours ago, bp79 said:

How can you say JB messed up with Sbisa and Guddy? Guddy has been injured almost the whole 2 years he has been here wouldn't it be more accurate to assess his play while in Florida? As for Sbisa you throw out one Corsi stat yet fail to mention all his positive stats, a little bit of cherry picking IMHO. Also when it comes to Adam. At the time we needed players in A certain age group, I don't think JB really thought of him as a top 4 more of just a stop gap. Pouliot has been improving his D the last few months and is second in scoring. His plus minus has also dropped quite a bit FWIW. Its way to early to say Forsling will become anything special after such A small sample size. We all thought wrong on Hutton after he had one good year.  I respect your opinion, just A little different than mine. Cheers.

A quick look at Guddy's record tells a lot. In his last two years of junior, he played 41, and 44 games.  He has never played a full season in the NHL In 2011/12 he played 32 games.  In 2012/13 he missed 18 games - almost a quarter of the season, and in 2015/16 (the year before we took him) he missed 18 games - again nearly a quarter of the season.  Then in 2016/17, he plays 30 games out of 82, and most of those games he was hurt.  But then Benning signs him up for another term, unable to admit that he gave up a first rounder plus for this guy, that's like when you go to Vegas and you are losing your shirt and you throw your car keys on the table.  Benning's only out now is to get whatever he can for the guy before he hurts himself again.  Staying healthy is for by far the most part, a skill and something that you train for - how to position yourself to make a hit, how to block a shot, how to position your body to absorb a check, and Gudbranson is like Tanev and Baertschi, they don't have it.  The Sedins, when they werre younger, had that ability, but a dozen or so years of being cross-checked in the back ot the neck will slow down all of your thinking skills and your ability to make  and take passes and handle the puck - exactly the things that the Sedins have lost.  And as players of previous generations have often said, "It's the hands that go first."  Well, that is the symptom.  The cause is all that accumulated whiplash over a career.

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