Type R Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Hey guys and gals of CDC.. I've been a silent follower of this group and our Canucks for a long time, and this is the first time I've been compelled to voice an opinion. I love this team like the rest of you and I watched with bated breath through this draft and was hoping for something that we would consider a "game changer". The draft came and gone, many of us are losing our minds now because the rest of the division has gotten better and many feel we either stayed the same or took a step back. I was on the same boat until I really started to think about it. Since GMJB took over, he's had his hands cuffed on many issues, most of which is player contracts. So keeping that in mind, I started thinking about what he has been able to do and I'm feeling pretty good about it. Lets think about this.. Everyone is clamouring for a new top 3, there is a lot of fear that there is nobody to replace the Sedins when they retire. This is a legitimate concern, and I'm in no way going to argue against that, but what I think many are missing is we have now drafted/traded for our up and coming LEGIT second line! Virtanen / Horvat / Boeser From what I see and what I read, this will be a hell of a line to contend with, so even though we are still pushing for the playoffs in the Sedin era (which lets be honest, has to be done for damage control after Torts from a business view) Benning has put together what could be arguably one of the better second lines in the league in the not so distant future. We also have some grit & scoring talent coming up which we may see as early as next year (Cassels, Baertschi, O'Reilly etc) which may help with a tightening cap this upcoming season and allow us to stay competitive. If we don't make the playoffs next season, so be it, then we draft higher and maybe look at trading some of our core (facing reality). This draft was far from a failure, and I think its simple short-sightedness to think otherwise, because when you look at who we got with this years picks (trades included) our prospect pool hasn't looked this healthy in forever. I could be wrong, but my gut tells me otherwise, would love to hear some added positivity. I'm thinking next year will be another surprise, and I also think when the 2015 season starts we will be minus a couple of current core players and have a couple more picks up our sleeves. Heres to youth, speed, and the next gen Canucks team. Go Canucks Go!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuporbust Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Good read. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yes, like I said as long as we have the Sedins, we just need a 2nd line that can be counted to score or create chances for us. Our D is an issue, but it wouldnt be as big if someone else besides the Sedins were able to create chances. I really look forward to watching our young prospects step up in the bigs, this will provide me the excitement I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory40 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I agree and am feeling too many fans think the Sedins will fall flat. I tend to feel they will be 80 plus point players for a while, The biggest weakness has been our low scoring defense. You could easily add 10 points to Daniel and Henricks totals ,If we had some better back end support, That being said I could see the line above being a number 1 line and the Sedin s becoming line 2. It hasn t been the Sedins fall off. It has been the supporting cast and poor player management after 2011. Salo , Erhhoff two players , that combined added points to the Sedins. Kesler I feel was the demise of line 2. When he was a third line center it was .O.K, But as a second line player that could not pass , it hurt our depth and neutralized our second line.. We will be fine, and as of march This year and same as March next year, Unless we shore up our defense, and have a better second line, we will be golfing 5 or 6 games into the play-offs. That being said we may be only 1 good defenseman, and one good forward away from having a completely different team. Then maybe we could be a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Type R Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yep, I think you hit it. Edler and Tanev have been a terrific surprise, but neither are true #1/#2 material (that i've seen). I may eat my words in the next couple of years (god i hope so), but if not, the Canucks do need a legitimate top pair PMD and they have sorely missed that since the cup run. Between Erhhoffs smooth passes, and Salo's (very accurate) bomb of a shot, our blue line hasn't been the same. Banning seems to have a lot of faith in Clendening, and Corrado may come though as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStandingCloutierFan Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Future's looking bright! Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen Shinkaruk-McCann-Boeser Gaunce-Cassels-Kassian Kenins-Vey-Grenier and a crap ton of D to pick the best out of: Edler-Tanev Pedan-Clendening Tryamkin-Subban Sbisa-Corrado Hutton Hoping like crazy that they all pan out well! With Utica being Utica it seems there's a good chance for all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I appreciate that we want to be optimistic and I think some of the points made by the OP are legitimate. 1. I agree that the prospect pool is better now than it has been for at least 7 or 8 years. It has been a long time since the Canucks have had 4 or 5 high quality young (under 21) players in the system like Virtanen, Horvat, McCann, Boeser and Cassels. And JB has filled in the slightly older group as well (Baertschi, Clendenning, Pedan). So that is good. 2. As a minor point, we are not likely to see Horvat, Boeser, and Virtanen on the same line as Boeser and Virtanen will probably both play RW at the NHL level. Also, Boeser and Virtanen are too similar. They are both strong, hard-skating, physical shooters. It would make more sense to put someone like Baertschi on the other side. Putting Baertschi and Virtanen on the same line would make sense as they are both very fast and Horvat is probably now fast enough to keep up with them (or close enough) although McCann could also center than line down the road. 3. However, this year and next year the team is likely to struggle. The Sedins are still good but, realistically, they are likely to decline slightly each of the next two years. Same with Vrbata (who is only signed for one more year anyway) and Burrows. But it will be a while before any other combination of players will be ready to take over the first line. And, while Horvat, etc. (as named above) are all good players who are likely to be solid top 6 players, it is far from clear than any of them will be high end first liners. (This reflects the fact that the Canucks have had very few high first round draft picks in the past 7 or 8 years). 4. JB has handcuffed himself regarding the Cap for this year by overpaying for Miller last year and overpaying Sbisa, Dorsett, and Tanev (who is good but who should have been signed for maybe $4 million). An extra 2 or 3 million saved by paying those guys less would look very good right now. And JB should have pulled the trigger on the Bieksa trade even if the draft pick was for 2016. 5. The future looks pretty good given the pipeline, but we still need a really good draft in 2016. So I favor full tank for 2015-16, trading Vrbata and Hamhuis for likely 1st round picks at the deadline and Bieksa (if he is still around) for a second. Higgins would be worth a second or third at the deadline as well. With a monster draft in 2016 the Canucks would be well-positioned to build another Cup contender in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honey Badger Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 We are WAY too early to put virtanen-Horvat-boeser on the same line and call them legit. One had a good nhl season, one doesn't have any nhl experience and one was drafted a few days ago. We haven't even seen two of these kids played a single nhl game for crying out loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Type R Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 JamesB, I agree with you (although I thought Virtanen was LW through and through). JB is handcuffed with the team, but I honestly think Gillis has more to do with that than his own actions. I see Sbisa completely replacing Bieksa through cap and his game. Whether or not he can play with the same amount of heart is yet to be seen, but he does play a very similar chippy gritty game. I feel that in the next 2 years we will be drafting top 10, which is when our opportunity will be to address first line needs. Sedins will see the next gen Canucks off to their start, the same way Linden did, and they will set the example. The rumours out of Cody Fransons camp have been quiet, and I'm just wondering if the Canucks might be moving towards a player like him? If this were the case, this could be a long term solution to our defensive woes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoosh Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 No one can argue the fact we'll have a tough season ahead of us with our current NTC contracts there. No matter how much I love Hammer & Bieksa on the back end and Higgins up front, I think the time is to unload a few of them at a good moment i.e. deadline. With Vrbata hitting UFA in a year and Burrows & Miller contracts coming to an end the following year, then we'll really get back in business. Until then, I like what I see in the mentality of "growing in a winning environment" and I like that we stay competitive and try to make the playoffs even if we can't challenge for the cup for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Agreed with OP in that we could probably have a couple of decent, competitive lines moving forward (e.g. Bart - Bo - Jake, Hunter - Yes-He-McCann - Brock) but I think the worries are in the strong and realistic likelihood that the quality of the team will drop after our heart-and-soul Twins leave, and if the team's defense is still lacking mobility that would cause problems in terms of competitiveness. Lastly, running with an uncertain guy with potential in Jacob is a cause for concern for me. I like some of the moves that Jim's made to at least provide a solid future for the team, but there's too much uncertainty, as we need multiple things to fall into place in terms of player development to have the multitude of "game-changers" needed to compete in today's league. Call it realistic optimism mixed with a patience for the process, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Perfect start to a CDC thread title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Is the OP also a 20-year season ticket holder? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Type R Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 lol SP, i'm still on the waiting list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanbieksa Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I agree with you, I don't want to see this team lose just to get better picks. But as you said, it's not the end of the world either if we have a bad season or two. With our conference/divsion getting better at a faster rate than us and I could actually see us dropping to a top-10 pick this year and if we ship off some veterans at the deadline we'll hopefully get a couple of other promising prospects. But it's always a question wheter or not a prospect makes the NHL, we can never know if the 7th round pick we got from Carolina turns out to be the next Datsyuk or Lundqvist. So a retool/rebuild can be made faster than expected as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaythedragon Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I am not the one for tanking intentionally, just to get higher draft picks. But I think this year we may or may not end up, in the 21-30 spot in the standings . But having said that the team did surprise us all last year with such an amazing performance through the season. Honestly though, I don't think we will be bad enough to draft top 5 or top 3 ,which is what we need. We could be bad enough for a top 10 pick though. Then again there is no guarantee that a 1st round pick will pan out as expected. Hopefully JB's good eye as a scout might just land us our own Datsyuk or Zetterberg at the next years draft, which btw he claims is very deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I like the optimism and I'm glad that the prospect pool is starting to get better, but we need to bear in mind that Hockey's Future gives our prospect pool a middle of the pack ranking. These players that we have coming up not only have to step up, they need to exceed expectations. I'd also feel better if there was a blue-chip defender in the system somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 scoring talent coming up which we may see as early as next year (Cassels, Baertschi, O'Reilly etc)#160; Didn't Cal O'Reilly sign with the Sabres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I appreciate that we want to be optimistic and I think some of the points made by the OP are legitimate. 1. I agree that the prospect pool is better now than it has been for at least 7 or 8 years. It has been a long time since the Canucks have had 4 or 5 high quality young (under 21) players in the system like Virtanen, Horvat, McCann, Boeser and Cassels. And JB has filled in the slightly older group as well (Baertschi, Clendenning, Pedan). So that is good. 2. As a minor point, we are not likely to see Horvat, Boeser, and Virtanen on the same line as Boeser and Virtanen will probably both play RW at the NHL level. Also, Boeser and Virtanen are too similar. They are both strong, hard-skating, physical shooters. It would make more sense to put someone like Baertschi on the other side. Putting Baertschi and Virtanen on the same line would make sense as they are both very fast and Horvat is probably now fast enough to keep up with them (or close enough) although McCann could also center than line down the road. 3. However, this year and next year the team is likely to struggle. The Sedins are still good but, realistically, they are likely to decline slightly each of the next two years. Same with Vrbata (who is only signed for one more year anyway) and Burrows. But it will be a while before any other combination of players will be ready to take over the first line. And, while Horvat, etc. (as named above) are all good players who are likely to be solid top 6 players, it is far from clear than any of them will be high end first liners. (This reflects the fact that the Canucks have had very few high first round draft picks in the past 7 or 8 years). 4. JB has handcuffed himself regarding the Cap for this year by overpaying for Miller last year and overpaying Sbisa, Dorsett, and Tanev (who is good but who should have been signed for maybe $4 million). An extra 2 or 3 million saved by paying those guys less would look very good right now. And JB should have pulled the trigger on the Bieksa trade even if the draft pick was for 2016. 5. The future looks pretty good given the pipeline, but we still need a really good draft in 2016. So I favor full tank for 2015-16, trading Vrbata and Hamhuis for likely 1st round picks at the deadline and Bieksa (if he is still around) for a second. Higgins would be worth a second or third at the deadline as well. With a monster draft in 2016 the Canucks would be well-positioned to build another Cup contender in a few years. You had me until you said FULL TANK. You have argued that they are close, why would you say that? Vrbata will only be moved when a young prospect is ready to take his spot imo. I wouldn't be surprised then if he were re-signed for another year. We won't see any of this happen until towards the end of the season when Benning knows better how things are setting up for the following season. While by no means a full tank, I think it is possible that Benning puts a package together to trade up in next years draft to get the high end defenseman we are all holding our breath for. One or 2 assets plus a 1st for the 4-7th overall pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Anyone else notice that Boeser is a RW and Virtanen is a RW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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