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Finally, a dose of much needed optimism. Thank you OP.

It frustrates me tremendously when I see all these CDC'ers campaigning for a "full tank". Even if JB wanted to go such a route he was tied up with so many NTC's and bad contracts when he came into the position such a route would be impossible to completely clear house and start from the ground up. Frankly, I think "tanking" is the worst possible thing any franchise could do. One of the only real tanks I can think of is the Edmonton Oilers. Now if fans are willing to miss the playoffs for a full decade and hope that they win a draft lottery for the best prospect since Crosby than I suppose tanking would be an option.

I constantly hear the argument "oh we need a top 5 pick in the draft to be a contender in the future so we need to tank in order get that pick." If only it were that easy. The amount of teams who have gotten a top 5 picks over the last decade and have failed to make any real run for the cup is an endless list. The Islanders got one of the best #1 overall picks outside of Crosby in recent memory and If I'm not mistaken haven't made it out of the 1st round since he's landed there. Florida has gotten so many top 5 picks I've lost count and have made the playoffs what, once in the last 6 or 7 years thanks to being in a bad division? Edmonton I don't even need to explain. Columbus is another one, Toronto, and the list goes on. Getting a good draft position is not a guaranteed pathway to success, there are plenty of other aspects of "rebuilding" that must be performed.

Everyone looks at Chicago and says "Well they had a #1 pick and a #3 pick and they've won x amount of cups". This is true, but don't forget the amount of pieces that have surrounded Kane and Toews that have aided in success. Duncan Keith was a 2nd round pick, Andrew Shaw a later round guy, they've had guys like Saad, Hjalmarsson, Sharp etc. all of whom have been picked outside of the top 10 and have been instrumental to their success, not to mention acquired players like Hossa who have also played major roles.

I think Anaheim is one of the most well rounded teams in the league, and they haven't had a top 5 pick since Bobby Ryan who isn't even on the team anymore. They have drafted extremely well with their 1st round picks regardless of their position (Getzlaf 19, Perry 28, Fowler #12), and with their 2nd+ round picks (Andersen 87, Vatanen 106) and have picked up outside pieces (Kesler, Silfverberg) all of whom have been instrumental to their success. Theres a whole process to rebuilding and its not as easy as tanking and getting a high draft pick, then filling up your roster with 18 year olds who aren't ready and bombing every year.

Last point, I think people underestimate the importance of veterans and leadership having an impact on young players. Oilers youngsters lacked this guidance and it showed. Calgary is a great example. Yes they have a lot of young players, but instrumental to their success is the guidance and leadership of guys like Giordano, Hudler, Russell, etc. who helped the Gaudreau's (btw a 4th round pick), and Monahan's perform the way they did. Bo Horvat said in an interview that a major reason for his success was the guidance and leadership of guys like Dorsett, Mathias, and the Sedins, who not only helped Bo directly, but showed on and off the ice the qualities and practices of being a successful NHL player. He said one of the greatest eye openers was seeing the work ethic and how in shape the Sedins were. It made him realize the off ice commitments he needed to make to be successful, and look at his development thus far. We need some guys in the lineup who can help develop the younger players through leadership, whether it be through helping them directly or leading by example, its important for development. Imagine you were a police officer and your entire patrol was rookies. Who would you learn from? How would you transition from a young police officer with little experience and knowledge to a trusted officer who can deal with all situations? You have to learn from experienced people who show you by example and by teaching you, its like any other job. Professional hockey is no different.

JB is doing his best to ease in the younger core of players without blowing everything up. He's surrounding these players with veterans who can help them the way they helped Bo. He's creating a winning environment in the AHL so players can transition better to the big league, and look how that helped the Tampa Bay Lightning and their core of young players who came through the AHL. Theres so much more to rebuilding than tanking; it involves good scouting, good development, and surrounding these players with good leaders. By the end of this year many of the vets will be at the end of their contracts, so it is safe to say that the opening roster for next year will have its fair share of young players, all of whom will have had the luxury of not being rushed into an NHL roster.

Trust the process and realize how much there is to rebuilding a team.

Man you hit the nail on the head with that one! +1

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While I admire your optimism and desire to look at the positives, there are some main difference between the 2006 era and now.

You had it right on the button, but your analysis went a little sidways

The first part of your statement is true, but then you contract yourself by saying the Sedins are mentoring our young players. What young players? By the time our best prospects are regulars in the NHL the Sedins will most likely be retiring.

You said that Naslund, Morrison, Linden and Ohlund helped mold the 2011 core, and yes they did but you have to realize that the Sedins, Kesler, Burrow and Bieksa were already established NHL'ers by 2006-07, not still developing in the minors or in junior. McCann, Cassels, Shinkaruk and Gaunce are still not reading to be NHL regulars so what are the Sedins mentoring? Horvat? That's not enough.

This is where some Canucks fans are worried. We all understand that we need veterans to help mentor young players, but where are our young players? We traded away Kassian for a 31 year old, and while you can argue that frees up a RW spot that takes away a LW spot. You aren't subtracting any roster spots by trading away Kassian.

We were able to stay competitive and get younger because we offloaded our assets, for example Bertuzzi, when their value was greatest. This re-tool your are trying to coin should have happened at the end of 2011-12 or atleast 2012-13 after the Lockout, and not now. That retool in 2006 was proactive while this one seems forced and almost like damage control.

I agree that this situation isn't exactly the same as 2006. But it's not really Benning or Lindens fault. It was the previous management that left this team in a mess. Benning came in far too late. He's trying his best to rebuild this team. Sure it's going to be a rough 4-5 years but hey, like the OP said stick it out like true fans

Go Canucks go!!

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I value hamhuis at least a mid first. Maybe I'm wrong. What does everyone else think?

Also I assume he has a ntc clause. . That probably hurts his value I guess.

Probably worth a mid 1st but at the deadline the teams vying for him will likely be late 1st rounders. So maybe a 1st and a decent prospect. Depends on his year and his health, really.

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It's going to get better....but not before it gets worse.

Canucks will be lucky to compete for a wild card spot, not because they are a horrible team, but because the division is way tougher now.

Anaheim and LA have top end talent in their prime, Calgary has the strongest roster since before the Nieuwendyk trade and now Edmonton has completely overhauled their team top to bottom, including the addition of McDavid as the cherry on top of that win sundae.

Canucks don't have the horses to get in this year, unless a lot of things go sideways for one of those teams listed above.

In the old playoff system, maybe the Canucks sneak in, but with the way it is now, you need to beat your divisional opponents to get in. How many games do you see the Canucks winning against the like of LA and Anaheim? Even Calgary and Edmonton will be stiff competition, no more Dallas Eakins behind the Oilers bench.

I would not be surprised if Oilers break out 80's style and murder the whole division, the forward depth on that team is beyond impressive.

i wonder how many points it's going to take to make the playoffs this year? my guess is that the west is going to own the east even more than usual, but it will be a battle royal within the west. we could have a pretty decent/respectable record (5-10 games over .500) and end up with a top ten pick, which would satisfy most everyone - we would have been competitive and still received a decent pick.

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You literally have zero empircal evidence to back up your statement. In fact the ONLY data available to Canucks fans suggests that Benning suffers from an acute inability to execute trades at market value. I get that he has been thrust into a bad position, but to suggest that he will somehow find a way to magically trade all of our past ripe vets for picks and prospects is Harry Potter

How did he not receive market value?? People on here seem to think that Kassian and Lack were worth a 1st and a prospect! This is not NHL 15... Our media here rubs off waaay too hard on the average know it all CDC'er

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There's market value and what CDC sees as market value. Shockingly they aren't the same.

The market value is determine by supply and demand and it's always changing

Benning has received fair value in his deals so far when you look at the CURRENT market

Think of it this way , if there are way more buyers at the deadline then sellers and most of those teams feel they really need a good quality Dman and there's say only 2 available that fit that mold then Hamhuis is going to bring a great return but if there's 6 or 7 Dman that other GMs value the same as him then isn't it obvious that it becomes a buyers market and the return won't be near as good ? Kinda like what happen with Lack

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One of the best post I have seen all summer. There is a lot of negativity on this site, people bashing other peoples posts, bashing Benning (who took a team that the experts said would finish around 16 overall to 8th) and questioning if Linden was the right hire as President or to figurehead/spearhead this team after one year. Benning didn't get great value for Lack but he did get market value with a glut of very good goalies available. Nice job!

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IMO our forward prospect ceilings

~Sven-Mike Cammalleri

~Bo-Patrice Bergeron

~Jared- Claude Giroux lite

~Jake-Brandon Saad

~Cole-Dave Bolland

~Brock-Kyle Okposo

Tell me what we had in our system back then?

If you think our prospects have that high a ceiling then you've been taking something. You honestly think that a roster of All-Star players is just sitting there waiting to play? If Baertschi was a Cammalleri in waiting he'd have been an NHL regular long before now. And if Bo Horvat turns into Patrice Bergeron then I'll eat my hat, my shoes, and Patrice Bergeron's mother.

Perhaps Cole Cassels could be Dave Bolland, but those other ratings? Utter madness.

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If you think our prospects have that high a ceiling then you've been taking something. You honestly think that a roster of All-Star players is just sitting there waiting to play? If Baertschi was a Cammalleri in waiting he'd have been an NHL regular long before now. And if Bo Horvat turns into Patrice Bergeron then I'll eat my hat, my shoes, and Patrice Bergeron's mother.

Perhaps Cole Cassels could be Dave Bolland, but those other ratings? Utter madness.

I don't think you get what he means by ceiling. He's saying if everything goes right, that is the best case scenario. The maximum they could achieve.

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Nice bit of perspective OP and MattA16.

I see the difference between 2006 and now is the difference in age between the old core and the new core. This makes this go around a little trickier but Benning is up to it.

The Sedins were 26 in 2006 and Kesler was 22. Now, Horvat is 20 and Boeser is 17.

So Benning is trying to narrow the gap by picking up players like Vey, Baertschi, Pedan and Clendening. At the other end, some older players like Bieksa have been let go and Bartkowski has been picked up. This will help with keeping the team competitive until the new core matures.

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I don't think you get what he means by ceiling. He's saying if everything goes right, that is the best case scenario. The maximum they could achieve.

Patrice Bergeron is an elite two-way centre, one of the very best to have played the game. A perennial Selke contender. Not only does Bo play a different game, but even the ceiling of his ceiling isn't that high. We have got to stop over-rating our prospects.

I'd love Horvat to become as good as Bergeron, but there is no evidence that his ceiling is even remotely that high. I fundamentally disagree with all of the ceilings he posted, bar Cassels. Bolland may be a good shout for him. But to say that Boeser has a ceiling as high as Kyle Okposo, a guy with 305pts in 450 games and a player who himself hasn't reached his peak yet, is ludicrous. Boeser's ceiling is surely someone like Radek Dvorak.

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All I've read for the last week and a half has been nothing but negativity on this board, and it's pathetic. I know Benning's made a couple questionable moves, and the Canucks are in no position to win anything right now. But you guys are completely missing the point. The point isn't to win right now. Benning knows we can't. Linden knows we can't. Hell, even the owners know we can't. But that's not what we're trying to accomplish. Don't any of you get it? We're not winning NOW. We're rebuilding, albeit not your standard rebuild, but it's what we're doing whether you want to admit it or not. You know what, we've been in this exact same situation very recently too. TBT time, to 2006!

In 2005-2006, the season right after the lockout, the Canucks tried loading up veteran talent to make a run at the Stanley Cup that year. Naslund, Bertuzzi, Morrison, Linden, Jovanovski, Ohlund, Richard Park, and Anson Carter to name a couple. The Canucks had a few younger players in place too. The Sedin's, Burrows, Kesler, Salo, and Bieksa to name a few. What happened that year? Well, the WCE, which had been our core for years, they declined quite heavily. Part of it was the Moore fiasco obviously, but it marked the end of our cup window with the vets. We missed the playoffs by a slim margin, but it was apparent that they were done. The Canucks went into rebuilding mode that off season. Thing was, the Canucks had young players in place already that could lead this team to possible greatness, and they knew it, so they didn't have to build through the draft. First order of business was to get a young goalie with elite potential. They brought in Luongo, giving up a huge piece of our core in Todd Bertuzzi. They started building a defensive first game until our younger players could start contributing offensively, and thus the beginning of a new era started. Naslund, Morrison, and Linden stayed and mentored the twins, Kesler, Burrows, etc. The Canucks brought in stay at home defenseman Willie Mitchell, while Mattias Ohlund helped groom our D core. We suddenly got a lot YOUNGER.

What people forget was, this turn around did not happen overnight. In fact, there were a lot of growing pains. Luongo pretty much single handedly got us into the playoffs in 2006-07, and we missed all together in 2007-08. But our young core was getting progressively better, and it was showing. We didn't have to tank either, we stayed competitive in this time. The Sedin's became PPG players, Kesler became an amazing 2way player, Burrows found his offense, and Bieksa and Mitchell lead our D corps on the blue line. Nobody can forget 2008-09, almost a disastrous year. Naslund and Morrison left at free agency, and Linden retired, and the reigns were given to the Twins, Luongo, and Kesler as the new leaders on the team. They struggled a bit, but also played good too, until in January, where we hit an 8 game losing streak. AV was nearly fired, our season was nearly lost, and it looked bleak. What happened next... Alex Burrows scored short handed and snapped our skid, and suddenly we went on an insane tear and made the playoffs. The new core had finally found themselves. They had come together as the future of Vancouver hockey, and as we're all aware, eventually took the Canucks on one of the most memorable runs in BC history in 2011. They became the new core.

This is exactly what Vancouver's doing now.... our window on our current core is closed, and we know that. The difference between now and then, is the Canucks do not have the young guns yet to lead this team like we did back then. The Sedins right now are mentoring our young players until their ready to take over the reigns, same goes for Burrows, Higgins, Hamhuis, etc. Miller too. Miller is a huge key factor actually, more then you guys give him credit for You're all so hung up on Lack that you all forget about one key player. Jacob Markstrom. Remember when the Canucks acquired Luongo as our elite netminder? Well we don't have to get one. We already have one with the potential to be the next Luongo. Did any of you watch Utica's playoff run? If you did, you saw Markstrom make UNBELIEVABLE save after save. He carried this team on his shoulders to the Calder Cup Finals. No, he hasn't had success in the NHL. YET. But that's why we have Miller. Miller is going to do for Jacob what Lu did for Schnieder and develop him. Don't forget, Cory stunk too when he first hit the NHL scene. Miller is going to groom Markstrom into that number one goaltender. That's why we signed him in the first place, and many of you forget that. Eddie Lack never had and never will have elite potential in him. Markstrom does, and if he hits it, the Canucks are going to have one hell of a goaltender. Maybe even the next Luongo, or possibly better! Miller was never meant to lead us to the cup. Markstrom is. And if Markstrom fails, another name in the organization. Thatcher Demko.

Is this going to be easy? No, not at all. The Canucks are gong to struggle, and they will struggle hard. I see next year going a lot like 2008 even. But, 2006-2008 is what turned the Canucks into the team that was one win away from a cup. All of you criticize Benning, but fail to realize the huge mess he was left, and is working valiantly to fix it. Bieksa for a 2nd was a great trade, because he was heavily declining. The Kassian trade looks bad at first glance, but look at it deeper. Kassian was a lazy player who was never going to become anything with us. Trading him opens up a spot in the top 6 for somebody even younger who can become something! Brandon Prust is a leader who can mentor these kids as well. Lack needed to go, and he had very little value thanks to the crowded market. Briesbrois has the makings to be another 3rd round steal for Vancouver though, and can become the next Willie Mitchell one day. That day is a long time away, but we've got time. The rebuild in 06 started with trading Bertuzzi, and ours started with Kesler. We got a great return given how handcuffed we were with the trade options. Bo Horvat could even be a better Kesler one day, and Jared McCaan... that kid has potential.

So Canuck fans, be excited for the future we've got ahead. Horvat, Virtanen, McCaan, Baertschi, Gaunce, Markstrom, Clendenning, even Corrado and Shinkaruk. They're going to be something special one day. but we have to be patient with them. Rebuilds do not happen overnight. It is going to be long. It is going to be very painful. But, it is going to pave the way for an amazing core of young players who will become the heart of our team, the foundation of it. We do not need to tank either. The 2006-08 teams never did, and look where it got us. We can stay competitive, but we are still rebuilding. Have faith. The Sedin's, Burrows, Miller, etc. Are here to mentor our guys now while keeping us semi good so that these guys grow up in a good environment. It's going to be a long and very tough road, but stick it out. It's what being a fan is all about. Tough out the hard times. Calgary and Edmonton are gonna smack us around like they did in 06-08, and it's going to be tough to swallow, but we're going to be just as good in a few years time. Just be patient until then, and root for our boys now. Stick it out like true fans do, and cheer on our guys!

GCG!! :towel:

A genuine sign of intelligent life on CDC. Bravo! Good comparison. +1

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What exactly is market value? What we think our players are worth? Is it such a stretch that maybe we overvalue our players?

Most fan bases seem to overvalue; they are emotionally invested....

Chicago fans thought Sharp was worth a 1st and a prospect, and he went for nothing really.

Saad left for Dano (has good upside), an old injury prone Russian, and some minor leaguers.

Oshie went for frickin' Brouwer, goalie prospect and a 3rd.

It's usually far less than a fan base anticipates; 1/2 to 2/3 fan base expectations.

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In 2006 we didn't need to tank. We already had the Sedins who were about to enter their prime. Unless you think Horvat and Virtanen are going to lead the league in scoring soon?

To be fair, the Sedins didn't lead the NHL in scoring until they were 30.

To answer your question, who knows? I certainly didn't see the Sedin's turning into the stars they ended up being.

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Patrice Bergeron is an elite two-way centre, one of the very best to have played the game. A perennial Selke contender. Not only does Bo play a different game, but even the ceiling of his ceiling isn't that high. We have got to stop over-rating our prospects.

I'd love Horvat to become as good as Bergeron, but there is no evidence that his ceiling is even remotely that high. I fundamentally disagree with all of the ceilings he posted, bar Cassels. Bolland may be a good shout for him. But to say that Boeser has a ceiling as high as Kyle Okposo, a guy with 305pts in 450 games and a player who himself hasn't reached his peak yet, is ludicrous. Boeser's ceiling is surely someone like Radek Dvorak.

Fair enough, Bergeron is a lofty comparison for Bo. I'd rank his ceiling above that of Brassard and Jordon Staal, in the neighborhood of O'Reilly and Backes. As for Boeser, I honestly don't know enough about him to be accurate, but his draft year was quite similar to Okposo's, in the same league.

Camemalleri and Sven's careers have actually been remarkably similar so far. Bouncing between the A and NHL with similar production. We'll see what happens next season: Mike spent his draft +4 year completely in the A (lockout) and exploded offensively, leading the league in goals (46).

As for McCann - Giroux lite; well yeah, I'm never expecting him to score 93 points in a season. But I don't think it's crazy to say there is a slim chance he can become an average 1C. More like David Krejic perhaps?

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IMO this is nothing like 2006.

As stated the team already #2 & #3 pick Sedins, 1st round picks Kesler, Ohlund, #2 pick Linden and undrafted Burrows.

The team had 5 of it's own 1st round picks already playing, most of which were close their prime.

They had just traded for one of the best goalies in the world for that decade.

If you want to find a year that correlates with this team now, you will have to back to 1998.

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In 2006 we didn't need to tank. We already had the Sedins who were about to enter their prime. Unless you think Horvat and Virtanen are going to lead the league in scoring soon?

The Canucks don't need to tank now either. There are already plenty of good prospects coming up.

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My grandmother is in her eighties. She's been a Canuck fan for pretty much her whole life. There's a very good chance she won't be around by the time this "rebuild" comes to fruition.

So why exactly should she be happy with what's been done by Benning so far?

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If you think our prospects have that high a ceiling then you've been taking something. You honestly think that a roster of All-Star players is just sitting there waiting to play? If Baertschi was a Cammalleri in waiting he'd have been an NHL regular long before now. And if Bo Horvat turns into Patrice Bergeron then I'll eat my hat, my shoes, and Patrice Bergeron's mother.

Perhaps Cole Cassels could be Dave Bolland, but those other ratings? Utter madness.

I'm not sure you know what a ceiling is.

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