External Validation

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

Check all three points for 2014-15.

[slaythedragon]

It's awful to hear experienced writers sounding alarm bells about Trevor Linden and Jim Benning's abilities and qualifications because the team fired people who's fingerprints are all over the team (yes, THAT team) that's been crumbling before our eyes for years, the team that is saddled with contracts they complain about being stumbling blocks, yet celebrate when the man responsible for them is fired?

I'm glad someone noticed this. I thought I might actually be crazy.

To be pissed off at the management this year you have to bring together quite a few elements:

1) Total amnesia

2) Outrageous homer overestimation of players

3) The view that Kassian is a good player (we all hoped he would be)

4) The belief that your goalie is elite because you love twitter

5) Ignorance of the fact that having veteran warriors on your team is what develops prospects, so you don't turn out like Carolina.

6) Simultaneous desire for and fear of roster changes

7) Utter mis-estimation of the trade market

8) The strange and false memory of Matthias being a physical force and not a marshmallow ghost - as they pushed on the radio today.

That radio bit was just as weird as praising Gilman, totally forgetting a year of talking about untradeable contracts and no-trade clauses.

And for the tankers (for effing shame), I am pretty sure that JB intends to draft a little higher - while remaining competitive. As in, fighting every night like a real hockey team. I know that losing is the new winning, but since you don't care about hockey or understand it, you can just pick a different team. Just be a Spoilers fan. I am sure they will still be able to land a big OHL kid this year.

Anyone, like Botch, Mac, or Gally, who is baffled or confused by the utterly consistent program of this management group really should not be proud of it.

I wish i had some way of magically making every delusional person (who wants to tank and doenst get what JB is doing, and wants to run him outta town) read this. Love your post!

[soshified]

I think everyone's just sick of losing our top assets for scraps.

We lost elite players in Luongo, Kesler, Schneider and all we got left is Bonino, Sbisa, Markstrom, Horvat and McCann.

Just Luongo and Kesler alone should have gotten atleast that.

I get they have ntc's etc, but it's not the fans faults.

Then there's the Lack and Kassian trade. Lack one is whatever, but I'm sure we could have made a package with Kassian, Burrows and something else intriguing and gotten Scherbak or Gallagher back or something.

Kesler waived for only one team. Vancouver had no advantages for negotiations.

Luongo wanted to go to Florida. Add that to Vancouver's goalie controversy, Vancouver had no say in negotiations.

Why can't people understand these trades?

And Kassian + Burrows for Gallagher? LOOOOOL

[Baggins]

This threat is hilarious

Dura I like what you say and I hope its true, but there are 2 posters below you who believe everything is the medias fault and a couple more that just blindly believe TL and JB have a plan that is working.

Like I said I hope you are right, but my gut feeling is the Canucks will be just good enough to threaten to pull an Ottawa next year and the JB will start trading picks to make the playoffs just like Nonis did when he was here.

Here is the problem I see with your plan. What if Sven Baertchi and Horvat play just well enough to drag us into 10th or 11th place in the conference? WHat if we are in 11th, 5 points back of the playoffs at the deadline? Does Benning buy or sell?

Just how many rentals did Benning acquire at the last deadline? Zero. He's stated a year ago he wouldn't be trading prospects/picks for rentals. He said he's only open to hockey trades. Like trading a second for Baertchi.

If we're out of the playoff race it wouldn't surprise me at all if he traded expiring contracts as rentals. If we're in the playoff race I won't be surprised if he holds onto those pending ufa's.

[Baggins]

I think everyone's just sick of losing our top assets for scraps.

We lost elite players in Luongo, Kesler, Schneider and all we got left is Bonino, Sbisa, Markstrom, Horvat and McCann.

Just Luongo and Kesler alone should have gotten atleast that.

I get they have ntc's etc, but it's not the fans faults.

Then there's the Lack and Kassian trade. Lack one is whatever, but I'm sure we could have made a package with Kassian, Burrows and something else intriguing and gotten Scherbak or Gallagher back or something.

Lou may have been worth something if not for his contract and ntc. Kesler had a reasonable contract but only one team he was willing to go to. If you were the GM of that one team would you be offering top dollar knowing you were the only option? I'm guessing not.

Lack and Kassian don't have the trade value you seem to think. Henrik, who never says a negative thing publicly about anybody, said, "shut up and play better" regarding him last season. That about sums up Kassians value. Lack is a backup who will be a ufa next summer. Wherever he was traded he could simply walk away next summer. Would you pay top dollar for that backup? Again, I'm guessing not.

Your laughable trade proposal is enough on it's own to tell everybody how unrealistic you are.

[BI3KSA-]

It's awful to hear experienced writers sounding alarm bells about Trevor Linden and Jim Benning's abilities and qualifications because the team fired people who's fingerprints are all over the team (yes, THAT team) that's been crumbling before our eyes for years, the team that is saddled with contracts they complain about being stumbling blocks, yet celebrate when the man responsible for them is fired?

I'm glad someone noticed this. I thought I might actually be crazy.

To be pissed off at the management this year you have to bring together quite a few elements:

1) Total amnesia

2) Outrageous homer overestimation of players

3) The view that Kassian is a good player (we all hoped he would be)

4) The belief that your goalie is elite because you love twitter

5) Ignorance of the fact that having veteran warriors on your team is what develops prospects, so you don't turn out like Carolina.

6) Simultaneous desire for and fear of roster changes

7) Utter mis-estimation of the trade market

8) The strange and false memory of Matthias being a physical force and not a marshmallow ghost - as they pushed on the radio today.

That radio bit was just as weird as praising Gilman, totally forgetting a year of talking about untradeable contracts and no-trade clauses.

And for the tankers (for effing shame), I am pretty sure that JB intends to draft a little higher - while remaining competitive. As in, fighting every night like a real hockey team. I know that losing is the new winning, but since you don't care about hockey or understand it, you can just pick a different team. Just be a Spoilers fan. I am sure they will still be able to land a big OHL kid this year.

Anyone, like Botch, Mac, or Gally, who is baffled or confused by the utterly consistent program of this management group really should not be proud of it.

It's absolutely bizarre seeing someone with an IQ above room temperature on this forum

[dura_mater]

This threat is hilarious

Dura I like what you say and I hope its true, but there are 2 posters below you who believe everything is the medias fault and a couple more that just blindly believe TL and JB have a plan that is working.

Like I said I hope you are right, but my gut feeling is the Canucks will be just good enough to threaten to pull an Ottawa next year and the JB will start trading picks to make the playoffs just like Nonis did when he was here.

Here is the problem I see with your plan. What if Sven Baertchi and Horvat play just well enough to drag us into 10th or 11th place in the conference? WHat if we are in 11th, 5 points back of the playoffs at the deadline? Does Benning buy or sell?

I worry about the same thing. If he's smart he'll sell.

Did he say that he intended to piss away assets?

He said: 1) Be competitive so don't have a loser culture

2) Support the core so they don't hate playing there

3) Integrate young players into the lineup

Pretty simple. I'm not gonna speculate about his deadline moves. Though apparently you are.

This may come as a surprise but half the point of a discussion board is speculation. If we weren't allowed to speculate there'd be little to talk about.

[Dynamic Innovator]

Did he say that he intended to piss away assets?

He said: 1) Be competitive so don't have a loser culture

2) Support the core so they don't hate playing there

3) Integrate young players into the lineup

Pretty simple. I'm not gonna speculate about his deadline moves. Though apparently you are.

I'm baffled by anyone who says Linden and Benning don't have a strategy!!!!! KPLAC has very accurately summarized Benning's strategy which was clearly and publically stated when he took the job. To be very clear KPLAC nailed it - those three points are exactly the strategy, which IMO is an excellent one.

Just because you don't like it or want it to be different doesn't mean it doesn't exist!!!!

As for the frenzy around "asset management", I understand people feeling negative about the trade return on their favorite players. I was super mad when the Canucks traded ROnnie Stern for Dana Murzyn! Consider that for a moment - Stern for Murzyn. Hard nose guy for a slow, defensive D-man. Impact? No.

The Lack, Bieksa, and Kassian trades may bum you out but those players on or off the team won't change it's fortunes!

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

If we weren't allowed to speculate there'd be little to talk about.

Okay then, I'll speculate that Benning doesn't get the 2 firsts he could get for Hamhuis at the deadline. Therefore, he's an idiot. I wish Botch was GM.

[Dynamic Innovator]

If we weren't allowed to speculate there'd be little to talk about.

Okay then, I'll speculate that Benning doesn't get the 2 firsts he could get for Hamhuis at the deadline. Therefore, he's an idiot. I wish Botch was GM.

If Benning doesn't put together a package of Hamhuis, Higgins + 5th for three 1st rounders he is a super, flaming, should be shot, dummy, bum face, worthless idiot fail jerk who is way out of his league and can't manage assets and can't trade for value and keeps getting pwnd and should be run out of town on a rail.

Botch is the greatest, TG knows everything, I demand to be GM because I personally guarantee I could get Arizona's next 15 first round picks for Alex Grenier. THAT'S asset management, something clearly neither Benning nor Linden, nor any other NHL GM know anything about.

[TheCammer]

Local criticism sells newspapers and creates listeners for radio stations.

I've said it before and I will say it again most Vancouver hockey fans are "lemmings" that follow the opinions and "facts" stated by the local media as opposed to having their own opinions. The fact is they are not that knowledgeable about hockey and so they subscribe to what they are told.

I'm not criticizing those people: they love the game. They just don't perhaps understand the nuances of running a system or how teams go about building a winning environment. With all that said a number of the moves Benning and the organization have made have been questioned outside of this market but some have been applauded as well. I guess we'll just have to see. Sometimes change is good sometimes change is just for the sake of change.

[TheCammer]

It's awful to hear experienced writers sounding alarm bells about Trevor Linden and Jim Benning's abilities and qualifications because the team fired people who's fingerprints are all over the team (yes, THAT team) that's been crumbling before our eyes for years, the team that is saddled with contracts they complain about being stumbling blocks, yet celebrate when the man responsible for them is fired?

I'm glad someone noticed this. I thought I might actually be crazy.

To be pissed off at the management this year you have to bring together quite a few elements:

1) Total amnesia

2) Outrageous homer overestimation of players

3) The view that Kassian is a good player (we all hoped he would be)

4) The belief that your goalie is elite because you love twitter

5) Ignorance of the fact that having veteran warriors on your team is what develops prospects, so you don't turn out like Carolina.

6) Simultaneous desire for and fear of roster changes

7) Utter mis-estimation of the trade market

8) The strange and false memory of Matthias being a physical force and not a marshmallow ghost - as they pushed on the radio today.

That radio bit was just as weird as praising Gilman, totally forgetting a year of talking about untradeable contracts and no-trade clauses.

And for the tankers (for effing shame), I am pretty sure that JB intends to draft a little higher - while remaining competitive. As in, fighting every night like a real hockey team. I know that losing is the new winning, but since you don't care about hockey or understand it, you can just pick a different team. Just be a Spoilers fan. I am sure they will still be able to land a big OHL kid this year.

Anyone, like Botch, Mac, or Gally, who is baffled or confused by the utterly consistent program of this management group really should not be proud of it.

It's awful to hear experienced writers sounding alarm bells about Trevor Linden and Jim Benning's abilities and qualifications because the team fired people who's fingerprints are all over the team (yes, THAT team) that's been crumbling before our eyes for years, the team that is saddled with contracts they complain about being stumbling blocks, yet celebrate when the man responsible for them is fired?

I'm glad someone noticed this. I thought I might actually be crazy.

To be pissed off at the management this year you have to bring together quite a few elements:

1) Total amnesia

2) Outrageous homer overestimation of players

3) The view that Kassian is a good player (we all hoped he would be)

4) The belief that your goalie is elite because you love twitter

5) Ignorance of the fact that having veteran warriors on your team is what develops prospects, so you don't turn out like Carolina.

6) Simultaneous desire for and fear of roster changes

7) Utter mis-estimation of the trade market

8) The strange and false memory of Matthias being a physical force and not a marshmallow ghost - as they pushed on the radio today.

That radio bit was just as weird as praising Gilman, totally forgetting a year of talking about untradeable contracts and no-trade clauses.

And for the tankers (for effing shame), I am pretty sure that JB intends to draft a little higher - while remaining competitive. As in, fighting every night like a real hockey team. I know that losing is the new winning, but since you don't care about hockey or understand it, you can just pick a different team. Just be a Spoilers fan. I am sure they will still be able to land a big OHL kid this year.

Anyone, like Botch, Mac, or Gally, who is baffled or confused by the utterly consistent program of this management group really should not be proud of it.

+1. Love this post.

I will disagree on the point around kassian. I still don't like this move (but it may just be the pain of having to replace two jerseys). Radio wants ratings, newspapers want sales and the Vancouver hockey fans are drawn in like cows to the slaughter. I think Benning has a vision and has done what he said he would do. Have i liked every move? No, but I have never seen our prospect pool look as promising in 40+ years.

With all that said I do know a lot of business people have been leaving the Canucks in recent years. I'm not sure the working environment is a good one given the amount of turnover i have seen. ( I work in the business and have several clients that have sponsorship deals with the team). Not sure that is on Gillis or Linden but rather pressure from above.

[cyoung]

Let's be honest the team is headed for a rebuild. Not necessarily bennings fault but since hes the gm hes the one that's gonna take the heat. Sure hes made some questionable moves but hes also revamped the future of the team while mainting a solid roster. Just remember these next 3-4 years can potentially be very rough, but that needs to happen.

[VanGnome]

Rebuild? Top players moving? Ok.....that's life (Panties fit loosely)

Top assets REPEATEDLY traded for MUCH less valuable returns? Not cool (Panties twisting into knot)

Kassian Lack and Bieksa gone and not ONE sexy asset to show for it? (Throw Kessler in there too....although McCann could be the savior)

If it walks like a suck and quacks like a suck...It sucks,

And these deals suck

Benning's trades remind me of the Phanuef to TO deal.....5 pounds of whatever does not equal 1 pound of top tier talent.

1. Lack > An asset that would have left via UFA at years end anyway, considering the payday he is going to want, but not really deserve. Turned that into a 3rd and a 7th. 3rd used to pick Brisbois who by all accounts if development goes well, looks to be a solid T4 with significant leadership qualities.

2. Kassian > An under performing, inconsistent winger who just couldn't put it together. Has been through 4 NHL coaches and is soon on to his 5th and has yet to surpass the role of a 3rd line player. Turned that into a character guy to help with the transition, and most importantly is on an expiring contract = roster flexibility for youth the year after next.

3. Bieksa > An over the hill, past prime 5/6 defender with the cap hit of a T4. Needed to move on to allow other leaders in the room to step up and have their voices heard. Turned that into a 2nd round pick (probably a late 2nd) in a ridiculously deep draft.

4. Kesler > A beat up, egotistical a-hole who acted as such by severely handcuffing Benning by only giving him one real team to trade with. Turned that into a young (at the time) fringe T4 dman who could very well improve (and has), an elite 3rd line center and a 1st which turned into McCann who looks like a beauty.

So to summarize:

Out:

1 Washed up overpaid defender

1 Inconsistent and enigmatic winger

1 Beat up hard nosed center who can win draws, but with serious attitude issues

1 Pending UFA goaltender with a log jam at that position

In:

1 2nd round pick in a deep draft

1 Future T4 dman

1 Character guy to help with this years portion of the transition

1 Fringe T4 dman who has improved since arriving (trending up)

1 Elite 3rd line center

1 Future 1/2 line center

All in all, I'd say Benning did quite well with what he had to work with.

[TimberWolf]

If you don't agree with me then you are a stupidhead that doesn't understand hockey

[lmm]

Did he say that he intended to piss away assets?

He said: 1) Be competitive so don't have a loser culture

2) Support the core so they don't hate playing there

3) Integrate young players into the lineup

Pretty simple. I'm not gonna speculate about his deadline moves. Though apparently you are.

Did he say he intended to piss away assets? no

He traded Garrison for a second, so far so good, then flipped that second for Vey

he had a deal in place for Bieksa for 40thpick, backed out and took a 58-60th 24 hours later

I don't think I need him to say he is going to piss away assets.

[wren223]

I don't need to be told by others that I like or feel good about the moves my favourite team makes. I'm an adult and can make those choices for myself.

I was sad to see so little return for Lack. However, at least Benning got something in return. He could have walked next year if we kept him or we could have lost Markstrom for nothing. Make the best of a bad situation. Benning may have handcuffed himself with the Miller signing but if he didn't bring in anyone last year then this team would have been in a ton of trouble. Goal needs to be solid and Miller was.

Bieksa got a second next year. It's an assest the team can use. He was getting older, was slowing. He's a heart and soul guy but if you want younger players in, the players that were traded for and that used up some of our draft picks from this last draft, then older core guys have to go. Keeping them because fans think they should net first round picks when the market doesn't bear that out is foolish.

Kassian. Well, people say we lost two power forwards in Kassian and Matthias but we never had a power forward to start with. Not a consistent, show up and paly each game power forward. Maybe a few games here and there, but that isn't a power forward, that's just some guy who can play like one sometimes. I think that the Kassian trade shows what Benning wants this team to be, hard working, consistent with smarts and drive. Kassian didn't work hard. He wanted it handed to him, he made foolish decisions and cost us bad penalities. Don't show up and out the door you go. Prust isn't flashy but he shows up each and every shift. Look at guys like him Horvat, McCann. These are hard working, driven players. They aren't McDavid or Tavarres but we don't have those kind of prospects because we haven't sucked enough to get them so too bad.

The media likes flash and pop because it gives them somthing to report on and talk about. Small moves, long vision and little progression moves don't make headlines, don't sell anything. No one cares if Benning slowly moves young guys up and works them into the team with a focus on development. Last year people wanted Horvat on the second line, but he played consistently and with drive and developed amazingly on the fourth line. At times they were the teams second line because they could do it when they could not being expected to every night. Let the young guys develop and step into the roles. Don't shove them in because they had a flash of skill. That's how you stunt and kill prospects. Just go look at the leafs, Pogge comes to mind.

Final note. The media projected us to be basement dwellers last season and they were shocked. So ya, the media is always right and we need to have them validate our team or else we are in such trouble. Bah! Let's see what happens this year and next. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Zedlee]

We're a fragile bunch, us old time Canuck fans. All we want is one Cup - and it was within our grasp...game 7...there for the taking. How different EVERYTHING would be if we had just won that game. Tanking? Go for it. Rebuild? No problem...we have a cup already.

But no...we can do nothing now but wait for this team to be a contender again. And get hyper sensitive about every little move that might mean we're further away from our dream...the Cup.

[SaintPatrick33]

David Pratt is one of our official media reps...that says it all right there. People listen to this guy hype of the BS meter on the radio then act like they know hockey. Way to go TSN!

[J-Dizzle]

David Pratt is one of our official media reps...that says it all right there. People listen to this guy hype of the BS meter on the radio then act like they know hockey. Way to go TSN!

Come on Pratt never hypes things.

"Lack has got to be worth a mid first round pick"

-Dave Pratt