Wayne Gretzky now? (X-post HF)

[Mathew Barzal]

Reading through the thread on HF really had me shocked. I thought it was a pretty much unanimous opinion that Gretzky was an elite player for his time that put up the numbers he did because of the shoddy defensive systems and goalie style of the time.

Don't get me wrong, for HIS ERA he was a generational talent but I had no idea people actually thought he could put up similar numbers now.

Seriously reading through that thread made me feel like I'm the idiot. What is everybody else seeing that I'm not, the big highlights of Gretzky's so called god-tier hockey IQ are plays that any and every elite player nowadays makes on a consistent basis but when Gretzky does it it's GOAT.

But I digress, what do YOU, the intellectual prodigies of CDC think?

Case in point:

[The Weasel]

HF Boards is full of elitists and a waste of time.

It's hard to compare eras though. Personally, I like Lemieux better.

I hate Gretzky. He'd still be elite though. The dude put up 200+ point seasons for a reason. Would we see points that high now? I doubt it, but he'd still be in beast mode territory. 80-90 points, really? A declining Henrik Sedin put up 73 points in 82 games.

[c00kies]

It's hard to say because of adaptation. Goalies have adapted to a much more efficient way to make saves, forwards have become more complete players, and coaches have set up plays and strategies to reduce the impact of star players.

That said, there has also been a plethora of rule changes.

I don't think he'd be a bum, but the difference between the elite players and depth players today is a lot smaller than it was when Wayne was controlling the league.

[Mathew Barzal]

HF Boards is full of elitists and a waste of time.

It's hard to compare eras though. Personally, I like Lemieux better.

I hate Gretzky. He'd still be elite though. The dude put up 200+ point seasons for a reason. Would we see points that high now? I doubt it, but he'd still be in beast mode territory. 80-90 points, really? A declining Henrik Sedin put up 73 points in 82 games.

Fair enough, I'd say he tops out at 130 in his prime though. I just can't picture any ridiculous 150+ seasons unless he was part of a juggernaut team signed to sweetheart deals.

[BeefcakeBo]

I think another aspect to this that isn't really brought up, is that Gretzky was able to dominate at a level above everyone else in his class except maybe Mario. There were a lot of incredible athletes that played with him that have just retired in the last few years, or will, Jagr. Players like Sakic , Yzerman, Modano are not that far retired and Gretzky was still better than all those players. I mean what's to say that his level of competition wouldn't rise to match today's great players like Teows or Crosby. If he played his way into the league against today's talents he might have been even better. Give him new stick technology and lighter skates ect. He could easily end up better than he was in his time if he played today.

I think it's really hard to compare one era to another though. I mean different equipment, systems teammates ect. What if Gretzky played with Ovechkin and Kane for wingers for his whole career? I mean you have to consider who did anyone play with, that will inflate or deflate the number of goals and assists too.

He also played through most of the dead puck years of trap hockey and still put up great numbers too.

[Goat James]

You can't compare players from different eras by just comparing their points, you have to look at how good they were in comparison to their peers. And Gretzky was miles ahead of everyone else (apart from Mario). He'd be super dominant. I mean, he won the tied for most points in the league as a rookie and then proceeded to win the Art Ross for seven straight years.

[Horvat]

ok? BARZAL! Henrik Sedin put up 112 points once, Gretzky would be a consistent 100+ point player imho

/thread

[Mathew Barzal]

ok? BARZAL! Henrik Sedin put up 112 points once, Gretzky would be a consistent 100+ point player imho

/thread

I heard you're stoned

[Grape]

Around 130 in his prime IMO

[WHL rocks]

I watched him play many times in the PNE Coliseum and at the old Maple Leafs Gardens. He was great but to compare him to players now is unreasonable. Today's NHL players are in phenomenal shape. The guys from the 80's wouldn't be able to keep up. And the players now all play a 2 way game compared to the 80's players. Yes even the ones considered floaters are 2 way players compared to the 80's. During the last few years Gretzky was barely touched or checked hard. He had built up such respect that players were hesitant to play hard against him.

The fitness level issue came to light dramatically in the 90's when the Russians and Euros started coming over. They were so dominating that it led the NHL to change it's rules so the likes of Mogilny, Sellane and Bure don't break Gretzky's goals record of 92. Thus began the clutch and grab era amid National uproar about changing the game at grass roots level. Many hockey minds were dispatched to Europe and Russia to learn the way they trained. Dead puck era lasted until Canadian kids trained with new techniques started coming in to the NHL, approximately 10+ years.

I remember when Bure first came over, during training camp he could bench 225 lbs 20 times. This was huge news as no other player came any where close to that. He had incredible core strength.

It was a different era, it was different hockey. Can't compare him to today's athletes. Hockey has come a long way over the past 20 years.

[AFrame14]

There's no point comparing him to today's nhl players.. players now a days train alot harder and smarter. They are groomed by the chl to become professionals

If Gretzky was just drafted I'm sure he would be alot stronger then he was when he was 17. To think he wouldn't be an elite player now is just stupid... think about it. If crosby played back then his highlights would prolly be similar to Gretzkys. Players that are elite during their career are elite players for a reason, they have more talent, skill and determination than the rest. Changing eras doesn't change that fact. But in saying that, there's no way he would put up those kinds of numbers in today's nhl. Goalies and systems have changed so much since then. I would fully expect him to be the best player in the nhl tho

[Rey]

ASSETS: Possesses Gretzky-like vision and passing skills. Also features terrific speed, puck-handling ability and a feisty attitude.
FLAWS: Needs talented scorers on his line in order to maximize his talents. Doesn't play a physical game and lacks the strength to dominate.
CAREER POTENTIAL: First line center.

Guess this player? Give up? Hold your mouse button and highlight the bottom to find out. I used white color to cover it up.

Scott Gomez

This was TSN's scouting report back in 2009.

[DontTouchMeGuys]

^

scouting report for scott gomez?

edit: just realized you highlighted it.

[-AJ-]

He'd be a 120-140 point guy in his prime. His size would be more of a deterrent in today's NHL though. Lemieux would be more dominant in today's NHL.

[canuktravella]

cant really compare now and then the training and doctors now are so much better i think 99 would still put up huge point totals maybe not 200 pnt seasons but 150-170 look ar jagr he the best player in last 20 consistanly put up points wayne was better offensively

[TOMapleLaughs]

HF Boards is full of elitists and a waste of time.

Here here.

HF is affixed on the validity of Gretzky's performances overall and imho this is a big part of the wasted time done there. How does he do now? What difference does it make? But really, Johnny Fraudreau and Jiri freakin' Hudler just lit it up last season. Safe to say this supertough league that would keep Wayne down no longer exists. The NHL would make damn sure their league ambassador rises to prominence.

[elvis15]

I watched him play many times in the PNE Coliseum and at the old Maple Leafs Gardens. He was great but to compare him to players now is unreasonable. Today's NHL players are in phenomenal shape. The guys from the 80's wouldn't be able to keep up. And the players now all play a 2 way game compared to the 80's players. Yes even the ones considered floaters are 2 way players compared to the 80's. During the last few years Gretzky was barely touched or checked hard. He had built up such respect that players were hesitant to play hard against him.

The fitness level issue came to light dramatically in the 90's when the Russians and Euros started coming over. They were so dominating that it led the NHL to change it's rules so the likes of Mogilny, Sellane and Bure don't break Gretzky's goals record of 92. Thus began the clutch and grab era amid National uproar about changing the game at grass roots level. Many hockey minds were dispatched to Europe and Russia to learn the way they trained. Dead puck era lasted until Canadian kids trained with new techniques started coming in to the NHL, approximately 10+ years.

I remember when Bure first came over, during training camp he could bench 225 lbs 20 times. This was huge news as no other player came any where close to that. He had incredible core strength.

It was a different era, it was different hockey. Can't compare him to today's athletes. Hockey has come a long way over the past 20 years.

That begs the question then of if you were just going back in a time machine to grab Gretzky in his prime and then asking him to play now, or if we're talking about if Gretzky had been born 20-30 years later. If we're talking about him being born later, then Gretzky would have all the advantages in health and fitness that players now do, yet still have all his abilities.

Dropping him into the league now after transporting his prime-self from the past would be a shock and he'd have trouble adjusting. Even then, he would adjust and eventually be able to compete.

[-AJ-]

That begs the question then of if you were just going back in a time machine to grab Gretzky in his prime and then asking him to play now, or if we're talking about if Gretzky had been born 20-30 years later. If we're talking about him being born later, then Gretzky would have all the advantages in health and fitness that players now do, yet still have all his abilities.

Dropping him into the league now after transporting his prime-self from the past would be a shock and he'd have trouble adjusting. Even then, he would adjust and eventually be able to compete.

This is a good point. There is likely a marked difference between 80s Gretzky playing today and a Gretzky born 20 years later.

[Shift-4]

You can't compare eras - ever. You can only compare players within their era. Gretzky was way beyond everyone else from his time. He is the greatest without doubt.

[Nave]

Gretzky is the best of all time, by all accounts, when it comes to points. It irritates me when people say he wouldn't do well in this era