dura_mater Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't think many people argue that Sutter is the better player. I think some are concerned with giving up Clendening and swapping for a worse draft pick. That aside, what I'm concerned about is re-signing Sutter. Not just to a reasonable cap hit but re-signing him at all. Someone mentioned he was unlikely to re-sign with Pitts as he doesn't want to stay in a 3rd line centre role. Correct me if I'm wrong but how is his situation any different here? We've got Henrik as 1c and Horvat projecting as our 2c. I'm not saying Horvat plays 2c this year but I don't think there's anyone on here that would argue he will eventually move to our 2nd centre position. So where does that leave Sutter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't think many people argue that Sutter is the better player. I think some are concerned with giving up Clendening and swapping for a worse draft pick. That aside, what I'm concerned about is re-signing Sutter. Not just to a reasonable cap hit but re-signing him at all. Someone mentioned he was unlikely to re-sign with Pitts as he doesn't want to stay in a 3rd line centre role. Correct me if I'm wrong but how is his situation any different here? We've got Henrik as 1c and Horvat projecting as our 2c. I'm not saying Horvat plays 2c this year but I don't think there's anyone on here that would argue he will eventually move to our 2nd centre position. So where does that leave Sutter?It is a ideal op for Sutter. 2C is open on the Canucks and 1C will be open in a couple of years. Horvatlooks like a top 6 C but that cannot be rushed. Not to say he doesn't snatch it. Does not change thefact that Sutter gets a shot as well. Better deal than Pitt. IMHO Sutter will be excited to resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baer. Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It's clear as day to anybody who actually watches hockey why Sutter is a better hockey player than Bonino. The people that follow hockey loosely and watch stat sheets over real games are the ones who need it explained to them like this. So because I don't agree with you, I'm not a real hockey fan? Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 my only concern is, if sutter is not a play maker, can he be successful on the second line with vrbata...? seems to me, he'ld fit better with burrows and maybe baerschi...if sutter was a third line centre he would fit perfect...maybe he will surprise us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 So because I don't agree with you, I'm not a real hockey fan? Makes sense.just means you havent watched alot of penguins vames so your basing your opinions on stats and other analysts. He never said real hockey fan. You did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baer. Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 just means you havent watched alot of penguins vames so your basing your opinions on stats and other analysts. He never said real hockey fan. You did. "The people that follow hockey loosely and watch stat sheets over real games are the ones who need it explained to them like this." Real fans don't "follow Hockey loosely". It was implied. And just because I used the many dozens of advanced stats created to determine a player's skill as accurately as possible to compare a player who I physically cannot watch on TV or Internet like NHL.com without paying some stupid amount. Somehow that makes me less knowledgeable or less of a fan? Sutter hasn't proven anything, not just in Pittsburgh but in Carolina as well, to me that shows he can be a 2nd line center. Sure, he's good defensively. But so was Bonino. Sutter is older too. And about to get a raise without playing a game for us yet. It's not like I searched his name, saw how many points he had, and came here. There's video on the internet too, you know that? I've watched his highlights and lowlights on YouTube. Pardon me if I don't want to see my favourite team pay over $4.25 million for a 3rd liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliboy Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't think many people argue that Sutter is the better player. I think some are concerned with giving up Clendening and swapping for a worse draft pick. That aside, what I'm concerned about is re-signing Sutter. Not just to a reasonable cap hit but re-signing him at all. Someone mentioned he was unlikely to re-sign with Pitts as he doesn't want to stay in a 3rd line centre role. Correct me if I'm wrong but how is his situation any different here? We've got Henrik as 1c and Horvat projecting as our 2c. I'm not saying Horvat plays 2c this year but I don't think there's anyone on here that would argue he will eventually move to our 2nd centre position. So where does that leave Sutter? It's been reported that the contract extension will be done within days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 "The people that follow hockey loosely and watch stat sheets over real games are the ones who need it explained to them like this." Real fans don't "follow Hockey loosely". It was implied. And just because I used the many dozens of advanced stats created to determine a player's skill as accurately as possible to compare a player who I physically cannot watch on TV or Internet without paying some stupid amount. Somehow that makes me less knowledgeable or less of a fan? Sutter hasn't proven anything, not just in Pittsburgh but in Carolina as well, to me that shows he can be a 2nd line center. Sure, he's good defensively. But so was Bonino. Sutter is older too. And about to get a raise without playing a game for us yet. It's not like I searched his name, saw how many points he had, and came here. There's video on the internet too, you know that? I've watched his highlights and lowlights. Pardon me if I don't want to see my favourite team pay over $4.25 million for a 3rd liner.its funny gow you can look all that stuff up but you cant seem to find that sutter is a year younger than bonino. Im not going to restart this entire thread from page one again as to why bonino looks better in charts. If youd like go read from the trade thread starting on page one. Also, calm your tits. Im not the enemy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baer. Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 its funny gow you can look all that stuff up but you cant seem to find that sutter is a year younger than bonino. Im not going to restart this entire thread from page one again as to why bonino looks better in charts. If youd like go read from the trade thread starting on page one. Also, calm your tits. Im not the enemy here. I read the trade thread. It gave me a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Soldier Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't think many people argue that Sutter is the better player. I think some are concerned with giving up Clendening and swapping for a worse draft pick. That aside, what I'm concerned about is re-signing Sutter. Not just to a reasonable cap hit but re-signing him at all. Someone mentioned he was unlikely to re-sign with Pitts as he doesn't want to stay in a 3rd line centre role. Correct me if I'm wrong but how is his situation any different here? We've got Henrik as 1c and Horvat projecting as our 2c. I'm not saying Horvat plays 2c this year but I don't think there's anyone on here that would argue he will eventually move to our 2nd centre position. So where does that leave Sutter? Uh, no. Sutter is 2C, Horvat is 3C. The kid has played great, but part of this move is to help Bo move at a steady pace and not bump him up the depth chart so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Advanced stats, although they can be useful, are also so inappropriately used that they lose some of their muster. They allow people who are not able to watch and evaluate players to still give an opinion, which is not a good thing. At the same time, many people can be completely misinformed about a players value, and advanced stats help clarify that. This problem is not new, it has existed in psychology for decades. How do we assess an offender's risk for re-offending? The field started out with clinical judgement, then moved to actuarial, assessment, and then structured professional judgement. Essentially, I see hockey moving towards this structured professional judgement approach to statistics. We use the statistics to garner a sense of the player's ability, but then have a pro-scout/expert analyst like Ferraro break down whether we should give weight to the statistic, or whether there are other unidentified factors that should have been considered. Sutter is an upgrade over Bonino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Sutter will start at 2C and has the opportunity to play with some much better wingers than he had in Pitt. There, the never had the opportunity to test his ceiling playing behind Crosby and Malkin. So while most people see him as the long term 3C he will have a year to prove us wrong. It would be a real bonus if he could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Note that Ray Ferraro was also high on us getting Kassian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van bc Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Brandon Sutter might work out here if he's not overpaid but Ray Ferraro is a complete idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chayne Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Ray says he looks at the Canucks with a mish-mash of parts and he is not sure how it will all fit together. He also said he doesn't have a feel for the finished product. Totally agree and I think most of the league is the same. It's fingers crossed for young guys now, which is exciting and scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Advance stats are just a way for everyone to prove they're right. I have never been a believer in using them to try and draft/develop/form a team and i will continue to believe this until someone shows me a GM who bases all his decisions purely on advanced stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 There is a high probability that Brandon Sutter is indeed a career black hole of puck possession and he's going to be paid WAY too much here based on 100% intangibles. Those expecting 'the next Kesler' will be disappointed. Kesler was a 40-goal man at Sutter's current age. Pittsburgh would not have given him up if he was this 'buried offensive star' that some think he may be. Right now Benning is working the phones like he's everyone's best friend. I've always found it amusing that metrix are thrown right out the window as soon as the numbers don't fit their argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Note that Ray Ferraro was also high on us getting Kassian.Nobody bats 1.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Honestly I think both clubs are going like this trade. Bonino might find it easier to play in the East. Sutter might find playing in the West more suited to his playing style. Sutter has also not have the greatest of coaching with both Carolina and Pittsburgh. Maybe a coach like Willie will help Sutter be the best player he can be. He probably won't get to Kesler's level, but I think he can be a useful player when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Note that Ray Ferraro was also high on us getting Kassian. A lot of Canucks fans thought so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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