TPP Leaks Show Canada Post and CBC up for Trade

[nucklehead]

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/council-canadians/2015/07/tpp-leaks-show-canada-post-and-cbc-trade

According to a document leaked on Wikileaks, the CBC and Canada Post could be jeopardized by the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement being negotiated this week in Maui by Canada and 11 other countries. State-owned enterprises in the TPP could be severely restricted and subject to rules that force them to give up their public service mandates in order to become purely profit-driven organizations. They would also be prohibited from buying services exclusively from local or national sources.

Leak: https://wikileaks.org/tpp-soe-minister/

"The TPP will hinder our state-owned enterprises from acting in the public interest," says Sujata Dey, trade campaigner with the Council of Canadians. "The very mission of the CBC -- telling the bilingual and multicultural story of Canada -- will be reduced to simple profit-making. Likewise, Canada Post will no longer function as a nation builder, but as a private company. The essence and mandate of our Crown corporations are being traded away in favour of private corporate profit."

Garry Neil, the Council's executive director and a cultural policy expert says, "because of a long string of government funding cuts, the CBC is already acting too commercially and straying from its essential public service mandate. Forbidding it from giving preference to Canadian producers undermines the Canadian content rules that ensure it remains an essentially Canadian service. All of this sets the stage for the privatization of the CBC, which has been the goal of the Harper government since it was first elected."

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is the largest economic trade agreement in the world, comprising more than 40 per cent of the world's GDP.

[Provost]

I am not sure I see a problem with this to tell you the truth.

It is manifestly unfair to make private broadcasters compete in the same space as the CBC. Somehow without billions of tax dollars, the CTV has come out with better Canadian content.

The post office has been operating effectively free of government dollars for a couple of decades now. They have managed to have modest profits most years and return a healthy dividend back to the government. Reducing government involvement would actually mean the post officer would have more money for services because it doesn't have to kick back hundreds of millions to the federal coffers.

There are also many clauses in agreements such as this that protect certain industries or goals. There are many ways to protect what could be considered important as well such as:

CBC radio gets rolled into a government department with the mandate of providing telecommunications that is also tasked with bringing broadband internet to remote communities (government departments are not subject to TPP... but any contracts tendered to 3rd parties have to be open).

A law can be in place that any private enterprise wanting to provide postal services must abide by the postal act including having the same postage rate for mailing a letter between any two points in the country. No one would want to do that because it loses money.

[TOMapleLaughs]

As much as things like gag orders on the CBC during an election period suck, the impact of Canada Post and CBC will be on a continued decline regardless of government interference, because of technologies such as the internet and email. These things are being monitored though, so it's tough to predict where free media will be coming from once the internet is locked down.

There is this though: http://www.rt.com/usa/outernet-cubesat-free-internet-153/

Dubbed 'The Outernet', it's hundreds of tiny satellites that could broadcast free and universal internet around the world, uncensored. Sounds nice, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

I don't think world governments, corporations or banks are too keen on free information flying around the world without it being monitored or censored. Information can be very dangerous.

[nucklehead]

. Information can be very dangerous.

To the overlords and those trying to steal your life. Can't think of anyone else it could harm.

[Mr. Ambien]

As much as things like gag orders on the CBC during an election period suck, the impact of Canada Post and CBC will be on a continued decline regardless of government interference, because of technologies such as the internet and email. These things are being monitored though, so it's tough to predict where free media will be coming from once the internet is locked down.

There is this though: http://www.rt.com/usa/outernet-cubesat-free-internet-153/

Dubbed 'The Outernet', it's hundreds of tiny satellites that could broadcast free and universal internet around the world, uncensored. Sounds nice, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

I don't think world governments, corporations or banks are too keen on free information flying around the world without it being monitored or censored. Information can be very dangerous.

Interesting link, but I wonder if the issues of latency (ping/ploss) that's always hindered satellite will be an issue still.. I presume so.

So the issue of "can I play online games without being kicked off and stream porn at the same time?" will be the inevitable question.

[Warhippy]

The TPP terrifies me.

Harper is getting his arse handed to him via the economy

Two of the biggest sticking points in Canadian involvement aer the Dairy/Poultry supply and control and BC and Ontario/Quebec lumber.

To hell with CBC and postal issues which can go the way of the dinosaur for all I care at this point due to emerging technologies.

Harper could very well bend over and allow canada to take one dry just to make it look good for the day of or within days of announcing the election kick off.

Fear this TPP and a man with a terrible economic track record. He's bent over in trade agreements before, he'll do it again if he has too

[TOMapleLaughs]

To the overlords and those trying to steal your life. Can't think of anyone else it could harm.

Well, I think the general public could be frightened by cyber-terrorism quite easily. Just one day of debit machines going off is enough to cause significant panic.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Anyone remember those people on cdc who wanted Harper and the neocons in soooo bad back in the day?

Wondering if they're still onboard with that now, considering he can't even get the economy rolling, despite throwing everything else to the wayside.

[Dazzle]

Anyone remember those people on cdc who wanted Harper and the neocons in soooo bad back in the day?

Wondering if they're still onboard with that now, considering he can't even get the economy rolling, despite throwing everything else to the wayside.

I never wanted him in.

Our low voter turnout cost us.

[Lancaster]

The TPP terrifies me.

Harper is getting his arse handed to him via the economy

Two of the biggest sticking points in Canadian involvement aer the Dairy/Poultry supply and control and BC and Ontario/Quebec lumber.

To hell with CBC and postal issues which can go the way of the dinosaur for all I care at this point due to emerging technologies.

Harper could very well bend over and allow canada to take one dry just to make it look good for the day of or within days of announcing the election kick off.

Fear this TPP and a man with a terrible economic track record. He's bent over in trade agreements before, he'll do it again if he has too

If Harper does approve, he will be doing it knowing that he'll be losing a sizeable voter block. That would be a very surprising move.

I say Canada should open up. If Canadian farmers are unable to compete globally, what does that say about their efficiency. Why should we as consumers be forced to pay more due to some piece of paper with some rules written about how we gotta "protect Canadian jobs". I believe Canada as a whole are smart enough and entrepreneurial to compete with anyone around the world.

We need to get onto this TPP unless we get left behind in the dust. A while back, Canada and South Korea were in discussion for a free trade agreement. Apparently it went no where, so Australia, the United States and maybe even New Zealand pre-empted Canada and got their own respective agreements. I believe that Canada eventually did what it can to move it along, but in the end, Canada lost billions of dollars worth of business with the South Koreans.

On an interesting note, it appears that most Canadians are unaware of what TPP is... but in Japan it's like 24/7 news right now. Canada is barely ever mentioned as it is currently.... not a good sign for Canadians if we're not part of the deal.

[Mr. Ambien]

Anyone remember those people on cdc who wanted Harper and the neocons in soooo bad back in the day?

Wondering if they're still onboard with that now, considering he can't even get the economy rolling, despite throwing everything else to the wayside.

With the loonie plunging, one would hope that this might bring some production jobs back to Canada, as there should be incentive for that alone, especially by American companies. The problem is, the country is in recession, and the CAD is dropping turds, yet people are demanding drastic minimum wage increases. Obviously someone (re: most of the Liberal and NDP supporting Canadian population) failed economics and can't see why this is pouring water on a gasoline fire.

Harper is pretty bad for the economy, the problem is, Liberals and NDP are even worse. That's why Harper stands a good chance of re-election. I can't see the NDP being re-elected here in Alberta either, people have been scared crapless of them. I can only see that possibility if they abandon their minimum wage increase plan for now.

[Hugor Hill]

With the loonie plunging, one would hope that this might bring some production jobs back to Canada, as there should be incentive for that alone, especially by American companies. The problem is, the country is in recession, and the CAD is dropping turds, yet people are demanding drastic minimum wage increases. Obviously someone (re: most of the Liberal and NDP supporting Canadian population) failed economics and can't see why this is pouring water on a gasoline fire.

Harper is pretty bad for the economy, the problem is, Liberals and NDP are even worse. That's why Harper stands a good chance of re-election. I can't see the NDP being re-elected here in Alberta either, people have been scared crapless of them. I can only see that possibility if they abandon their minimum wage increase plan for now.

While some Canadians failed economics, Mrs. Schiff here didn't even take his at all. Min wage has nothing to do with the value of the currency.

[TOMapleLaughs]

While some Canadians failed economics, Mrs. Schiff here didn't even take his at all. Min wage has nothing to do with the value of the currency.

Yeah, I don't think the minimum wage issue affects much at all. I don't think the proposed increase will even get those on welfare off of it. The economy drivers are more about those well above minimum wage, and it's those people who you want to remain employed here, because they're buying all the expensive toys and property. If Harper can't even manage to keep these people happy, then what is he good for?

[mdehaan]

While some Canadians failed economics, Mrs. Schiff here didn't even take his at all. Min wage has nothing to do with the value of the currency.

Why am I having deja vu? I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[otherwise]

If Harper does approve, he will be doing it knowing that he'll be losing a sizeable voter block. That would be a very surprising move.

I say Canada should open up. If Canadian farmers are unable to compete globally, what does that say about their efficiency. Why should we as consumers be forced to pay more due to some piece of paper with some rules written about how we gotta "protect Canadian jobs". I believe Canada as a whole are smart enough and entrepreneurial to compete with anyone around the world.

We need to get onto this TPP unless we get left behind in the dust. A while back, Canada and South Korea were in discussion for a free trade agreement. Apparently it went no where, so Australia, the United States and maybe even New Zealand pre-empted Canada and got their own respective agreements. I believe that Canada eventually did what it can to move it along, but in the end, Canada lost billions of dollars worth of business with the South Koreans.

On an interesting note, it appears that most Canadians are unaware of what TPP is... but in Japan it's like 24/7 news right now. Canada is barely ever mentioned as it is currently.... not a good sign for Canadians if we're not part of the deal.

It's not about efficiency, it's about maintaining a supply so that there are not drastic price swings. It's also about having a very high quality of product when it comes to dairy. I'm not interested in having lower quality milk or UHT milk. (ie. the only people who might be able to provide fresh dairy would be the US, their milk is trash compared to ours. )

[Lockout Casualty]

It's not about efficiency, it's about maintaining a supply so that there are not drastic price swings. It's also about having a very high quality of product when it comes to dairy. I'm not interested in having lower quality milk or UHT milk. (ie. the only people who might be able to provide fresh dairy would be the US, their milk is trash compared to ours. )

Exporting dairy to Canada, US, Australia and Japan is a big sticking point for New Zealand.

In theory I don't have a problem with removing supply management and opening up our market, provided it's opened to other developed nations and we don't compete with a dairy equivalent of Bangladesh.

Our standards should also remain high, or the deal shouldn't go through.

Overall, I don't think this deal is needed for Canada whatsoever. We already have a deal with the US (who make up a bigger portion of economic activity than the rest of the members combined), as well as South Korea, Peru, Colombia, and Chile (edit: and Mexico). We're working on deals with Japan and Singapore. I'm sure we could negotiate separate deals with members of the common wealth like Australia and New Zealand. Edit: And there are exploratory discussions with Philippines and Thailand.

I don't see so much benefit to Canada from signing this deal, especially in light of what the leaks have revealed. A deal with Brunei, Taiwan, Malaysia, and Vietnam simply isn't worth the concessions on prescription drugs, copyright, the secrecy, and the clear hand off of power to global corporations, who unlike our government's MPs, get to not just read the agreement, but call the shots on what's in it.

I'm curious what supports of this deal think is in it for Canada.

[Lancaster]

Exporting dairy to Canada, US, Australia and Japan is a big sticking point for New Zealand.

In theory I don't have a problem with removing supply management and opening up our market, provided it's opened to other developed nations and we don't compete with a dairy equivalent of Bangladesh.

Our standards should also remain high, or the deal shouldn't go through.

Overall, I don't think this deal is needed for Canada whatsoever. We already have a deal with the US (who make up a bigger portion of economic activity than the rest of the members combined), as well as South Korea, Peru, Colombia, and Chile (edit: and Mexico). We're working on deals with Japan and Singapore. I'm sure we could negotiate separate deals with members of the common wealth like Australia and New Zealand. Edit: And there are exploratory discussions with Philippines and Thailand.

I don't see so much benefit to Canada from signing this deal, especially in light of what the leaks have revealed. A deal with Brunei, Taiwan, Malaysia, and Vietnam simply isn't worth the concessions on prescription drugs, copyright, the secrecy, and the clear hand off of power to global corporations, who unlike our government's MPs, get to not just read the agreement, but call the shots on what's in it.

I'm curious what supports of this deal think is in it for Canada.

It's about the timing. Sure, Canada has a deal with South Korea..... that's only after Australia, the USA got it first, thus they stole a lot of market shares from Canada by getting it done first. Canada need to export to other countries more than other countries need to import Canadian stuff.

Japan can get their lumber, resources and other commodities from Australia and the US first before Canada is they have a deal and we don't. That's tons of Canadian jobs and money lost. Sure, some Canadian industries will suffer, but others will thrive and cause a net gain.

As the current TPP stand, it doesn't include China. Imagine if Canada has unfettered access to the Chinese market once they also join the TPP.

[Lockout Casualty]

It's about the timing. Sure, Canada has a deal with South Korea..... that's only after Australia, the USA got it first, thus they stole a lot of market shares from Canada by getting it done first. Canada need to export to other countries more than other countries need to import Canadian stuff.

Japan can get their lumber, resources and other commodities from Australia and the US first before Canada is they have a deal and we don't. That's tons of Canadian jobs and money lost. Sure, some Canadian industries will suffer, but others will thrive and cause a net gain.

As the current TPP stand, it doesn't include China. Imagine if Canada has unfettered access to the Chinese market once they also join the TPP.

Are you saying a trade agreement works on first come, first serve basis, so if S. Korea is trading cell phones with the US, there may not be enough for Canada? I don't think it's about who gets there first, but about what you have to export and what you want to import. If a Canadian company provides something cheaper than a US company, I don't think a country with free trade agreements with both nations would be forced to go with the one who signed first. Sounds preposterous and impractical.

Sure, Japan can get their lumber elsewhere, but if we have an agreement we may be able to provide it at the best price. Australia's lumber is more expensive due to their much higher wages alone, compared to Canada. I'm not familiar with the US lumber industry. And yes, no matter what you do, some industries will benefit and others suffer. There's no alternative where everyone is happy.

First of all, has China even expressed interest in joining the TPP? Second, does it benefit the US, main driver behind the agreement, to have China join and would they be on board? Third, it's less Canada having access to the Chinese market, and more China having access to ours. We won't be selling consumer goods to China, nor the other nations I've listed that we don't have agreements with. They'll be selling us cheap crap. Who in Malaysia or Vietnam is going to be able to afford Canadian products? Are we just chasing natural resource exports? If so, I'd rather we keep our resources and invest in domestic production, instead of free trade agreements with nations who'll turn said resources into products with (obviously not competitive) slave labour wages.

I don't think free trade agreements with nations that don't have a comparable wages are in our interests. I think they're detrimental.