LaBamba Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It's because people at least have some sanity to realize that the NDP would run this country into the sh1tter. This country does need change, but not change that's unrealistic and useless. The way we handle Alberta's oil money needs to be completely made over though. Look at what norway does. Don't even get me started on this, I have explained in great detail +\- 180 times that the way Norway does oil cannot be done in Canada. We lost in our attempt to nationalize oil 30 years ago. It would literally cost multiple trillions to buy back all of the oil leases/ infrastructure then operate it nationally. Think about it, how much would it cost to buy the oilsands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Looks like the liberals are spreading the gap. As pro conservative as I am, I could live with the liberals. NDP is the absolute worst choice imaginable and it's starting to show in the polls. Almost a 10 point spread between the 3rd place NDP and 1st place Liberals. It shows me that people want change not complete destruction. I think people DO want change and the Liberals have wisely set themselves up as the party for it while the NDP (quite mistakenly IMO) tried to broaden their base. They've moved too far away from their core principles in the process and now represent less change than the Liberals. It's likely cost them their first chance at forming government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I think people DO want change and the Liberals have wisely set themselves up as the party for it while the NDP (quite mistakenly IMO) tried to broaden their base. They've moved too far away from their core principles in the process and now represent less change than the Liberals. It's likely cost them their first chance at forming government. Notley in Alberta has really hurt the NDP on a national level. She is a walking, talking disaster. The 7% raise they gave themselves, looked pretty bad but it looked even worse when they publicly admitted it was a mistake and reversed it. Their back-pedalling royalty review. Investment is in mass exodus in Alberta on all levels. She has been trying to drum up investment across Canada and the USA with cold reception. The NDP has no plan. If I was the liberal party I would attack the NDP and suck the remaining life out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Notley in Alberta has really hurt the NDP on a national level. She is a walking, talking disaster. The 7% raise they gave themselves, looked pretty bad but it looked even worse when they publicly admitted it was a mistake and reversed it. Their back-pedalling royalty review. Investment is in mass exodus in Alberta on all levels. She has been trying to drum up investment across Canada and the USA with cold reception. The NDP has no plan. If I was the liberal party I would attack the NDP and suck the remaining life out of them. The Liberals have been attacking the ndp all campaign. And yes I totally agree on the Alberta ndp, complete disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The Liberals have been attacking the ndp all campaign. And yes I totally agree on the Alberta ndp, complete disaster. Really both parties have, most of the NDP supporters support the NDP because they hate Harper more than they really realize what the party is really about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Really both parties have, most of the NDP supporters support the NDP because they hate Harper more than they really realize what the party is really about. Bang on. The real true supporters of the ndp are the far left supporters of socialism which is why the ndp has only made official opposition once and that was because of Quebec separatists voting ndp rather then bloc which isn't saying much for the ndp. All along I assumed this ndp bit was a flavour of the week kinda thing. Canadians are smarter then that. Just look at the ndp resume in B.C, Ontario, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta, would any normal individual promote them? More like fire them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 And yes I totally agree on the Alberta ndp, complete disaster. It's a well known fact that Albertans have put up with 40 years of 'disaster' under the Alberta PCs. Despite over 25 years of massive oil revenues, Alberta has basically no savings left in the Heritage Fund. Alberta had the resources to be one of the richest places in the world, but the government squandered all that money to private interests. Everyone got rich off oil except the average Albertan. Yet, after only a few months of government, and a couple questionable but relatively low-impact policies, you pronounce the Alberta NDP 'a complete disaster'. If Notley's government is a disaster, what did that make Redford's? The apocalypse? End of times? Prentice forced a by-election even though he won his seat. How much money did that waste? You don't like fact that the NDP tried to get some government people a raise? How many times did the PCs get a bump? How many times did they get re-elected? They name a hospital and roadways after Peter Lougheed, worshipped him like a demigod, even though he blew through money faster than a homeless man with a cocaine addiction. It's been SIX months of NDP government in Alberta....accept the fact that most of Alberta's problems have to do with 1)The price of oil 2)The results of the previous governments' policies. Alberta has pissed away literally BILLIONS of dollars over the last two and a half decades. Don't worry though, Sun News is there to report the excessive waste caused by a government trying to vote in a salary increase (not for MLAs), which ended up being reversed anyway. They did however, begin a program to see minimum wage eventually be an amount that might be worth getting out of bed in the morning. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Lol minimum wage at 15/hr will hurt small businesses the very people the ndp says they're behind. Btw I supported the wild rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Lol minimum wage at 15/hr will hurt small businesses the very people the ndp says they're behind. Btw I supported the wild rose. The $15/hr thing is only for federal gov't workers. Less than 1% of minimum wage earners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 The $15/hr thing is only for federal gov't workers. Less than 1% of minimum wage earners. No Rachel Notley is raising Alberta's minimum wage to 15/hr over a few years. Which only affects about 1% of Albertans and hurts small business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 It's a well known fact that Albertans have put up with 40 years of 'disaster' under the Alberta PCs. Despite over 25 years of massive oil revenues, Alberta has basically no savings left in the Heritage Fund. Alberta had the resources to be one of the richest places in the world, but the government squandered all that money to private interests. Everyone got rich off oil except the average Albertan. Yet, after only a few months of government, and a couple questionable but relatively low-impact policies, you pronounce the Alberta NDP 'a complete disaster'. If Notley's government is a disaster, what did that make Redford's? The apocalypse? End of times? Prentice forced a by-election even though he won his seat. How much money did that waste? You don't like fact that the NDP tried to get some government people a raise? How many times did the PCs get a bump? How many times did they get re-elected? They name a hospital and roadways after Peter Lougheed, worshipped him like a demigod, even though he blew through money faster than a homeless man with a cocaine addiction. It's been SIX months of NDP government in Alberta....accept the fact that most of Alberta's problems have to do with 1)The price of oil 2)The results of the previous governments' policies. Alberta has pissed away literally BILLIONS of dollars over the last two and a half decades. Don't worry though, Sun News is there to report the excessive waste caused by a government trying to vote in a salary increase (not for MLAs), which ended up being reversed anyway. They did however, begin a program to see minimum wage eventually be an amount that might be worth getting out of bed in the morning. You're welcome. The NDP is a disaster because they aren't adjusting to the current environment. Investment in Alberta has come to a screeching hault due to the uncertainty of the royalties and the raising of corporate taxes. Crescent Point announced Friday that they will be investing 1.1B of capital in Saskatchewan. It's not that Saskatchewan is a better tax haven, it's because there is certainty in their royalties and corporate taxes. Alberta IS the richest province in Canada and the average household income IS the highest in Canada. It's got the highest millionaires per capita too. All of this is possible because of free enterprise. The people who help take the dragons from the ground make the money and everyone else makes money off what they buy. Why give the oil riches to the government? Why do you people need the government so much? Why do you trust the government that much? If you think it's unfair that you aren't richer from the oil we have then you need to throw on some coveralls and go get you some yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 +1 million Labamba well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Maybe you guys can start your own Alberta / oil circle jerk thread somewhere else so the adults can talk about the federal election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The NDP is a disaster because they aren't adjusting to the current environment. Investment in Alberta has come to a screeching hault due to the uncertainty of the royalties and the raising of corporate taxes. You are mistaken. The NDP government has made it clear that there will be no changes to rates until 2017 at the earliest.http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-royalty-review-no-changes-to-rates-before-2017-1.3207381 Crescent Point announced Friday that they will be investing 1.1B of capital in Saskatchewan. It's not that Saskatchewan is a better tax haven, it's because there is certainty in their royalties and corporate taxes. Both Saskatchewan and Alberta have the same tax rate as of the new changes, and there isn't any 'uncertainty' about the tax rate or the royalty rate. It's a stupid argument even if there was uncertainty, simply because the price of oil has been cut by more than one half since February. It's funny that you use Crescent Point as your example, because they are basically profiting off of another company selling off its assets for pennies on the dollar BECAUSE of the drop in oil prices. Taxes and royalty rates having piss all to do with it. Would you buy a car for 10% of it's value because the previous owner went broke? I sure as hell would, and that's what Crescent Point did. Alberta IS the richest province in Canada and the average household income IS the highest in Canada. It's got the highest millionaires per capita too. By IS, you mean WAS. The difference was the $100 barrels of oil, which no longer exists, and is likely not to rise again to that level anytime soon. Don't address the arguments of the present with facts from the past. There's a new Stampede in Calgary, the scurrying of oilfield workers leaving to find jobs somewhere else. Blame it on NDP if you like, but that's just BS. It has everything to do with falling oil prices and you know it. Why give the oil riches to the government? Because those resources belong to Alberta, and as such a percentage of any resource extracted should go to the government to pay for the public services and infrastructure they provide. Why do you people need the government so much? Because the government (supposedly) represents the will of their constituents, the citizens of Alberta. Would you rather the people entrust their needs to private enterprise? Should we have a crappy mandatory private insurance healthcare system like the US? Make it so that I have to 'buy a policy' from a company who will try their damndest to find a way to deny my claim when I get sick? No thanks, Ayn Rand. Why do you trust the government that much? We can always elect a new government if we don't like the current one. We can't 'fire' corporations. If you think it's unfair that you aren't richer from the oil we have then you need to throw on some coveralls and go get you some yourself. And I quote: "Between 1980 and 2014, although non-renewable resource revenues (NRR) in Alberta generated almost $190 billion, the value of the Heritage Fund in 2014 was only $17.3 billion." http://albertaventure.com/2014/05/non-renewable-resource-revenue/ My problem isn't with the oil companies...it's with the government that squandered the money. The Progressive Conservative government, you know, the ones who espouse 'great fiscal management'. THEY did this, not the 'evil' NDP. Now I ask, where's the missing 170+ billion dollars?? WHERE IS IT? Probably in the pocket of lobbyists for private enterprise...forgive me if I don't shed a tear for them because their tax rate went up 2 whole percent.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 You are mistaken. The NDP government has made it clear that there will be no changes to rates until 2017 at the earliest.http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-royalty-review-no-changes-to-rates-before-2017-1.3207381 Both Saskatchewan and Alberta have the same tax rate as of the new changes, and there isn't any 'uncertainty' about the tax rate or the royalty rate. It's a stupid argument even if there was uncertainty, simply because the price of oil has been cut by more than one half since February. It's funny that you use Crescent Point as your example, because they are basically profiting off of another company selling off its assets for pennies on the dollar BECAUSE of the drop in oil prices. Taxes and royalty rates having piss all to do with it. Would you buy a car for 10% of it's value because the previous owner went broke? I sure as hell would, and that's what Crescent Point did. By IS, you mean WAS. The difference was the $100 barrels of oil, which no longer exists, and is likely not to rise again to that level anytime soon. Don't address the arguments of the present with facts from the past. There's a new Stampede in Calgary, the scurrying of oilfield workers leaving to find jobs somewhere else. Blame it on NDP if you like, but that's just BS. It has everything to do with falling oil prices and you know it. Because those resources belong to Alberta, and as such a percentage of any resource extracted should go to the government to pay for the public services and infrastructure they provide. Because the government (supposedly) represents the will of their constituents, the citizens of Alberta. Would you rather the people entrust their needs to private enterprise? Should we have a crappy mandatory private insurance healthcare system like the US? Make it so that I have to 'buy a policy' from a company who will try their damndest to find a way to deny my claim when I get sick? No thanks, Ayn Rand. We can always elect a new government if we don't like the current one. We can't 'fire' corporations. And I quote: "Between 1980 and 2014, although non-renewable resource revenues (NRR) in Alberta generated almost $190 billion, the value of the Heritage Fund in 2014 was only $17.3 billion." http://albertaventure.com/2014/05/non-renewable-resource-revenue/ My problem isn't with the oil companies...it's with the government that squandered the money. The Progressive Conservative government, you know, the ones who espouse 'great fiscal management'. THEY did this, not the 'evil' NDP. Now I ask, where's the missing 170+ billion dollars?? WHERE IS IT? Probably in the pocket of lobbyists for private enterprise...forgive me if I don't shed a tear for them because their tax rate went up 2 whole percent.... Golf clap? Golf clap. Bravo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Great post Mustapha but I say again... FEDERAL ELECTION THREAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 Bang on.The real true supporters of the ndp are the far left supporters of socialism which is why the ndp has only made official opposition once and that was because of Quebec separatists voting ndp rather then bloc which isn't saying much for the ndp.All along I assumed this ndp bit was a flavour of the week kinda thing. Canadians are smarter then that.Just look at the ndp resume in B.C, Ontario, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta, would any normal individual promote them?More like fire them! Are you kidding, NDP supporters are far left supporters of Socialism?The NDP promised a balanced budget. That is hardly left wing. If anything it is the Liberals who aremoving to the left by saying they will runs deficits and making the rich pay more tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magikal Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 As someone who is torn between going Liberal and NDP this year I am a bit concerned since the Liberals seem to be gaining the most support of the left side but I prefer more of the NDP platform. I really hope whoever wins helps bring change to the voting process. This is one of the most "right wing" NDP party I can remember too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Great post Mustapha but I say again... FEDERAL ELECTION THREAD. I don't understand why you are against discussing the way the oil industry is handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 You are mistaken. The NDP government has made it clear that there will be no changes to rates until 2017 at the earliest.I wonder if the federal election has anything to do with that. Wait it probably has a lot to do with that. By IS, you mean WAS. The difference was the $100 barrels of oil, which no longer exists, and is likely not to rise again to that level anytime soon. Don't address the arguments of the present with facts from the past.You stated "Everyone got rich off oil except the average Albertan." got as in past tense, so you got a past tense answer. Here is some more on how the average Albertans benefited and got "rich" And I quote: "Between 1980 and 2014, although non-renewable resource revenues (NRR) in Alberta generated almost $190 billion, the value of the Heritage Fund in 2014 was only $17.3 billion." My problem isn't with the oil companies...it's with the government that squandered the money. The Progressive Conservative government, you know, the ones who espouse 'great fiscal management'. THEY did this, not the 'evil' NDP. Now I ask, where's the missing 170+ billion dollars?? WHERE IS IT? Probably in the pocket of lobbyists for private enterprise...forgive me if I don't shed a tear for them because their tax rate went up 2 whole percent....Albertans give generously of their time and money for charitable causes. The average annual donation for Alberta was $863, the highest in the country and far outpacing the Canadian average of $531. In 2013, the volunteerism rate of Albertans in support of schools, charitable and other non-profit organizations was 50.1 per cent compared to 43.6 per cent in Canada. The total annual volunteer hours were 262 million hours. Say i give you 50k one year. or pretend you have a small business and you generate 50k profit. How much do you put into savings? Do you put all of it into your savings? Do you reinvest it, into growing your business? Do you take some and spend on other areas in your life, maybe a vacation? if you only put $4500 into your savings should I be crying out where is the other 45K? You do realized that money is spent else where and like into healthcare for example. As alberta's population grew, the funding to school, health care, and roads also grew. Less emphasis was put on saving and more on keeping up with the growth. Could have a higher percentage been put into the heritage savings trust fund, sure but a brief period of 7 years it completely stopped. If you actually even bothered to read the article you posted it stated that, had Alberta continued with the initial design of the fund, that number would have been around 50.8 billion.nothing near the 170 billions you are mentioning. You would also realized that the money was being spend on improving the current generations lives, again (ie ...health care, schools....) , not just as you say "in the pocket of lobbyists for private enterprise" It also stated that between 1994 and 2007, Alberta actually did save around 30 per cent of its non-renewable resource revenues, either through debt reduction or putting some money into the Heritage Fund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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