SaintPatrick33 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Why are we still talking about oil and not the other energy technologies out there? I went to a 3rd world country recently, and they have SOLAR POWER PLANTS which power entire villages, wow bright idea, but I guess since the oil industry is against this, costs remain sky high over here. What a scam and a joke. Technology exists besides oil powered bs, but since there is no profit for the oil-war-profit machine, it will not be accessible here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Oil is everywhere. This is the problem with this theory, people have no clue about how the industry works. The big Oil companies don't care where they get oil from, the only thing they care about is how much money they are making. The more costs you pile into their extracting costs the less profit comes from extraction. If anything you are making your oil revenue more volatile, because what was profitable at $80/bbl now needs to be at $90/bbl. oil companies will only operate at highs in commodity price and scale back during the lows. You don't get royalties when nothing is being extracted, you don't get corporate tax if a corp is losing money either. If suncor, for example, is losing money on a consistent basis in Canada and making money on a consistent basis in Peru. They will eventually divert their capital to a growth environment and the negative assets will dry up. Do you realize that Canadian select is at a $18 discount right now? It's around $22/bbl. That refinery in Indiana that went down is a major refiner of Canada Crude. Now the oil is backed up in our storage facilities and soon we will run out of room and Canadian select will be worthless. You can't use the "we have oil they come and get it" mentality anymore. The world is awash with crude. They will get it from the cheapest place possible. So again, why don't we do everything possible to move away from such a volatile and fickle industry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Why are we still talking about oil and not the other energy technologies out there? I went to a 3rd world country recently, and they have SOLAR POWER PLANTS which power entire villages, wow bright idea, but I guess since the oil industry is against this, costs remain sky high over here. What a scam and a joke. Technology exists besides oil powered bs, but since there is no profit for the oil-war-profit machine, it will not be accessible here. How many washer, driers, microwaves, AC units and dishwashers did they have in the village? Also, explain how oil powers my house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 So again, why don't we do everything possible to move away from such a volatile and fickle industry? So again, how does this happen now? Your innocence was cute at first but now I'm really starting to worry about your grasp on reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 So again, how does this happen now? Your innocence was cute at first but now I'm really starting to worry about your grasp on reality. How does anything happen? The will to make change is needed. The ability to look being this quarters financial numbers and make some difficult decisions. It's been done before, it can be done again. You're so afraid of rocking this wildly incredibly unstable boat for fear it might sink. Well guess what, it's gonna sink sooner or later, so let's do all we can to get the hell off while we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 How does anything happen? The will to make change is needed. The ability to look being this quarters financial numbers and make some difficult decisions. It's been done before, it can be done again. You're so afraid of rocking this wildly incredibly unstable boat for fear it might sink. Well guess what, it's gonna sink sooner or later, so let's do all we can to get the hell off while we can. With what? What will replace the revenue? All this talk of increased social programs with increased corporate tax is pretty cheap. It's nothing but a fairytale to convince hopeless romantics that this NDP is going to unchain us Canadians from the corporate slavedrivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The also don't understand that the Nordic countries have even worse problems than us. Look at a list of countries by household debt sometime. We're bad, but see who's at the top. True, but the government has more money from their 60% personal income tax to decide for the people what to do with it and how spend it. Personal debt? Pfft... they get to ride a fancy train to work, pretty hard to put a price on that. Freedom!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 With what? What will replace the revenue? All this talk of increased social programs with increased corporate tax is pretty cheap. It's nothing but a fairytale to convince hopeless romantics that this NDP is going to unchain us Canadians from the corporate slavedrivers. Nothing will replace it if we don't have a discussion about it first. You just sit here and scream nothing can replace it! And that basically shuts down the conversation. Nothing will replace it tomorrow either. This isn't a thing that happens overnight. It's a long term process that requires long term thinking and incremental change. Oil is never going to disappear. We get it. We need it. But we can make changes so that over time we can need less of it and be less susceptible to it's incredible instability. What will replace it? Probably a combination of things. Some we have, some we can grow, others we might not even know about yet. But we'll never get to any of them if we just put our heads in the sand about this entire problem because we can't solve it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 @J.R Btw you say if companies want our oil they build refineries? Are you crazy? Shows you don't know nearly as much as you think you do when discussing the oil sector. Oil companies would simply say no and leave if they were given an ultimatum like that. Kinda like they did in the 80's. So what are you left with? All this oil just laying underground not being drilled? Great idea. Oh wait as a ndper you would probably support nationalizing the oil... This is the second thread you've wrongly labeled me as an 'ndp'er' BTW... As I said in my earlier comment, given current pricing we've missed the boat on domestic refining. That's (oh look another one!) Harper's failing. Fyi, nationalizing energy was a Liberal thing, not NDP. I'd love us to have been smart enough to be the 'Norway of North America' though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Oil is everywhere. This is the problem with this theory, people have no clue about how the industry works. The big Oil companies don't care where they get oil from, the only thing they care about is how much money they are making. The more costs you pile into their extracting costs the less profit comes from extraction. If anything you are making your oil revenue more volatile, because what was profitable at $80/bbl now needs to be at $90/bbl. oil companies will only operate at highs in commodity price and scale back during the lows. You don't get royalties when nothing is being extracted, you don't get corporate tax if a corp is losing money either. If suncor, for example, is losing money on a consistent basis in Canada and making money on a consistent basis in Peru. They will eventually divert their capital to a growth environment and the negative assets will dry up. Do you realize that Canadian select is at a $18 discount right now? It's around $22/bbl. That refinery in Indiana that went down is a major refiner of Canada Crude. Now the oil is backed up in our storage facilities and soon we will run out of room and Canadian select will be worthless. You can't use the "we have oil they come and get it" mentality anymore. The world is awash with crude. They will get it from the cheapest place possible. Wouldn't it be nice if we had diversified our economy so we wouldn't bother/vastly slow down extracting oil when it's worth less than it costs to get out of the ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 So your alternative then? Many have already been suggested, (solar, wind, tidal, etc.) but it looks like Lithium could be the next big thing and it looks like Bolivia could become the next Saudi Arabia: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/03/22/lithium-dreams The article is a bit too long to copy and paste, but an interesting read, if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Wouldn't it be nice if we had diversified our economy so we wouldn't bother/vastly slow down extracting oil when it's worth less than it costs to get out of the ground... Ya totally, but a lot if things could be avoided if you're some type of sorcerer that can see the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Nothing will replace it if we don't have a discussion about it first. You just sit here and scream nothing can replace it! And that basically shuts down the conversation. Nothing will replace it tomorrow either. This isn't a thing that happens overnight. It's a long term process that requires long term thinking and incremental change. Oil is never going to disappear. We get it. We need it. But we can make changes so that over time we can need less of it and be less susceptible to it's incredible instability. What will replace it? Probably a combination of things. Some we have, some we can grow, others we might not even know about yet. But we'll never get to any of them if we just put our heads in the sand about this entire problem because we can't solve it right now. That is quite the gap from bankrupt government to thriving green technology leading empire. How does the government pay for all of this while its struggling to keep its head above water. It's fun to fantasize, sometimes I fantasize about winning the lottery, it makes me feel warm inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Many have already been suggested, (solar, wind, tidal, etc.) but it looks like Lithium could be the next big thing and it looks like Bolivia could become the next Saudi Arabia: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/03/22/lithium-dreams The article is a bit too long to copy and paste, but an interesting read, if you're interested. The article is a bit too old, 5 years old. I know, let's check in on Bolivia, are they Saudi Arabia yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 That is quite the gap from bankrupt government to thriving green technology leading empire. How does the government pay for all of this while its struggling to keep its head above water. It's fun to fantasize, sometimes I fantasize about winning the lottery, it makes me feel warm inside. You're so black and white. And/or your being willfully obtuse. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The article is a bit too old, 5 years old. I know, let's check in on Bolivia, are they Saudi Arabia yet? Oh, you were looking for overnight alternatives? Sorry, can't help you there. FTR, I didn't post it because I remembered reading it five years ago. I saw a story about it on Discovery a few days ago. Maybe the New Yorker was just ahead of the curve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 https://www.facebook.com/alex.m.moretti/videos/10153623180657642/ A little insight from O'leary, I love this man. I know it's Facebook but it's the only place I could find this beautiful video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Oh, you were looking for overnight alternatives? Sorry, can't help you there. FTR, I didn't post it because I remembered reading it five years ago. I saw a story about it on Discovery a few days ago. Maybe the New Yorker was just ahead of the curve? All of this stuff is great, and essential to our survival onthis planet. Tight oil has done nothing more then buy us time. 2020 is the predicted peak of shale oil, thats not even 5 years away, we need to replace 10M bbls a day in like 10 years. We are so screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 All if this stuff is great, and essential to our survival in this planet. Tight oil has done nothing more then buy us time. 2020 is the preticted peak of shale oil, that not even 5 years away, we need to replace 10M bbls a day in like 10 years. We are so screwed. I think those four words are the key. It's not a case of finding that one magical solution to lessen our global dependency on oil. It's going to take a combination of several alternatives. Solar, wind, tidal, lithium....all will have a part to play. Also, I doubt that we'll ever eliminate our need for oil. It's used in too many ways to ever completely eliminate. The goal is to reduce the amount we use and find other ways of fueling things like transportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I find it incredible that the oil crowd will tell you that we need to mvoe off of oil yet tell you how essential it is to icnrease production in the same breath Fun fact, oil development took decades. Like literally 60+ years to get to where it is today and still it demands massive subsidization. If we transfer those subsidies to green tech, green research and building green infrastructure we will employ many, start the foundation for all and move away from those issues. But then, we'd have to start doing and not just talking right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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