Canucks Four Biggest Non-Mistakes Over the Last Year

[Gaudette Celly]

Miller got us Brisebois. No miller signing, means no goalie trade, means no (3rd) Brisebois.

And trading Miller might have got us a Lecavalier or Savard.

[Alflives]

And trading Miller might have got us a Lecavalier or Savard.

You are scary correct.

[Steve23]

EDIT: ^^ And do you have a comment on the topic, Steve?

Huh, seems like the moves here we've pretty much beat to death elsewhere, and we can agree not all the moves listed are sure fire, home run, non-mistakes. Imagine that and imagine I make mention of it before continuing to discuss the topic.

If people want to not reply to the thread and only reply to me, that's on them (and you, quoting board rules at me like I don't know them - thanks for replying on topic at least though), not on me posting in and actually discussing a thread.

I might not agree totally on Miller not being a great goalie for some time, but I do agree he's not what he once was and isn't worth what we're paying him at this point unless somehow he really is a master mentor. I'm happy to discuss it even, as much as I've done so extensively in the Miller/Lack threads.

There were plenty of rumours that Gillis was happy to deal with Toronto and might even have had the workings of a deal, but Luongo shut that down thinking he could still get to Florida. Of course, we found out once the deal was eventually made that Florida hadn't even been in a position to ok any kind of deal at that time.

Blaming Gillis for that but lauding Benning for Kesler when Anaheim - Kesler's one approved destination (apart from maybe Chicago, who weren't playing ball) - is pretty much incorrect.

To be honest, I'm more into reading these forums to keep up to date on current goings-ons. What grates me the most is your constant fickleness that discourages new discussion. I mean to me, this was a completely valid topic that I was pleased to see, rather than all of the current negativity surrounding Benning's off season moves. To see you automatically come in with this holier-than-thou attitude to posters offering new opinions or views is sickening. Sure there are threads already discussing all of the points the poster brought up, but the whole idea of the thread from what I got, was the OP trying to incite some positivity on these forums for a change of the offseason. Why don't you try and lighten up for a change and allow new discussion rather than to be an annoying pseudo-mod?

[JeremyCuddles]

How is trading for Prust and trading lack non-mistakes when we haven't seen the effects of them yet? Will it still be a non-miatake if Kassian is 15ish goal scorer and Prust is just a 4th line goon or Miller poops the bed? Feel like those two shouldn't count just yet.

[IBatch]

Oh, and I definitely do not agree that the Miller signing wasn't a mistake. Hate the fact we gave him 3 years. I've been going against the Miller bandwagon ever since the season after he won his Veniza. Plain and simple, he just isn't, and never was (save 2010) a great goalie.

The point is - after Schneider and then Luongo left, we had a gaping hole in net. Without the Miller signing we wouldn't have made the playoffs last season and had a chance at the cup - and nowadays every team that makes it has a chance (LA's first cup is a good example). The Lack-Markstrom tandem last year wouldn't have worked. Miller played for some incredible Buffalo teams for a few years, and then kept the team higher in the standings than they would have been once the stars started leaving. He is comparable to Luongo at this stage, and without him there is no way we finished 8th overall and 12 points outside of the presidents trophy. Which happens to be the sixth best season this club has ever had.

[IBatch]

Roy won the Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe trophy in his rookie year. During the regular season that year, he was 9th in voting for the Vezina trophy.

For each of the following eight years, he either won the Vezina, Jennings, Stanley Cup, Conn Smythe Trophy, or was a 1st or 2nd team All-Star or was a Vezina finalist. Almost always more than one of these each year.

There was no point in nearly the first decade of Roy's career where he was anything other than remarkable, save perhaps for the regular season of his rookie year (still 9th for the Vezina, and he won the Cup).

Yes I know this - I should have been clearer - check out his pre-NHL stats that are comparable to what Markstrom did last year - you may be surprised to find out that they were below average. He obviously thrived under pressure, and was lucky to get the shot given his mediocre at best stats pre-nhl (Markstom). I love Roy, one of my idols growing up.

[puckdontlie]

Non-mistake 1: willing to move players with NTCs. I think this is the biggest significant difference between Benning and Gillis.

Non-mistake 2: upgrading amateur scouting and drafting. The mandate isn't just to simply draft NHLers, but to draft winners. It remains to be seen how successful this will be.

Non-mistake 3: Sbisa and Dorsett NOT given no trade clauses.

Non-mistake 4: many short term deals, salary cap flexibility for next few years.

Given that the old model was get players via trade from Florida and let our players sign with the Leafs, there's room fo improvement. These 4 non-mistake in cohesion gives the Canucks lots of room to upgrade. NTCs, Luongo, Ballard and Booth long term deals and poor drafting crippled the team for too long. Hasn't been proven yet but my guess is Benning is willing to draft, develop, trade and trade again until he lands on cup winning talent. I'll judge him mostly by his long term commitments and big time trades. Many good teams regularly let good players leave but have suitable replacements... That's a winning model which the Canucks are implementing. Lack and Kassian trades are small fish which won't do any long term damage.

[IBatch]

Non-mistake 1: willing to move players with NTCs. I think this is the biggest significant difference between Benning and Gillis.

Non-mistake 2: upgrading amateur scouting and drafting. The mandate isn't just to simply draft NHLers, but to draft winners. It remains to be seen how successful this will be.

Non-mistake 3: Sbisa and Dorsett NOT given no trade clauses.

Non-mistake 4: many short term deals, salary cap flexibility for next few years.

Given that the old model was get players via trade from Florida and let our players sign with the Leafs, there's room fo improvement. These 4 non-mistake in cohesion gives the Canucks lots of room to upgrade. NTCs, Luongo, Ballard and Booth long term deals and poor drafting crippled the team for too long. Hasn't been proven yet but my guess is Benning is willing to draft, develop, trade and trade again until he lands on cup winning talent. I'll judge him mostly by his long term commitments and big time trades. Many good teams regularly let good players leave but have suitable replacements... That's a winning model which the Canucks are implementing. Lack and Kassian trades are small fish which won't do any long term damage.

I like these points - and agree 100% with you. There was a great reply somewhere in this message board that outlined Bennings actual draft record compared to the league over the same time period in Boston to factualize his ability in this department and it showed just how good he is at this. Hopefully this translates into the Canucks over the next couple years and we can mine some real gems in the later rounds and get them into the line-up.

[IBatch]

To be honest, I'm more into reading these forums to keep up to date on current goings-ons. What grates me the most is your constant fickleness that discourages new discussion. I mean to me, this was a completely valid topic that I was pleased to see, rather than all of the current negativity surrounding Benning's off season moves. To see you automatically come in with this holier-than-thou attitude to posters offering new opinions or views is sickening. Sure there are threads already discussing all of the points the poster brought up, but the whole idea of the thread from what I got, was the OP trying to incite some positivity on these forums for a change of the offseason. Why don't you try and lighten up for a change and allow new discussion rather than to be an annoying pseudo-mod?

Steve23, you nailed it. Was getting wearisome reading through all the mud and the criticism (and the impatience - this line-up hasn't even played a game, or a couple months to give us a correct sample size on how these moves work for the team) and wanted to make a positive. light hearted thread for those who would prefer to discuss the actual merits of what Benning and Linden have achieved (the sixth best season in Canucks history, 12 points off the Presidents Trophy).

[Pete M]

I wish we had a thumbs down. Our d was very good last year and will be better next year. Our forwards hung them out to dry in the play-offs just with lack of compete.

You're joking right?

Weber, Sbisa, Bieksa...were very good. Go on keeping your head buried in the sand.

If you know anything about hockey, it is obvious our "D" sucks.

However, the right players being brought in could fix that quickly...this is a failure on JB's part to date.

Let's hope he fixes the situation.

[Canorth]

EDIT: ^^ And do you have a comment on the topic, Steve?

If people want to not reply to the thread and only reply to me, that's on them (and you, quoting board rules at me like I don't know them - thanks for replying on topic at least though),

Every time you start policing these threads you draw attention to your self - and you know it. Each one of your 'helpful' little post creates much more spam and derailment than without - and you know it. If you cared so much about the quality of threads in this forum then you'd stop.

[5 decades and no cup]

You're joking right?

Weber, Sbisa, Bieksa...were very good. Go on keeping your head buried in the sand.

If you know anything about hockey, it is obvious our "D" sucks.

However, the right players being brought in could fix that quickly...this is a failure on JB's part to date.

Let's hope he fixes the situation.

Please list the dmen that JB shoulda woulda coulda brought in. And do keep in mind that the Canuck cannot offer up numerous picks and prospects like Edm or Cal did at the draft. Oh, and our best players are +30 and have NMCs.

[Pete M]

My 2 cents...

A fan whether he/she is new to the game or has played and coached the game at a high competitive level is left with seeing only the result of a teams effort and the current situation.

All the behinds scene stuff...contracts, cap situation can also be seen once reported.

Therefore, the fan is left commenting on the result...this is usually 20/20 vision for the present because the information when reported is hind sight, has happened and is factual.

The future stuff is unclear to the fan because the fan has no control about the decision making.

To say a fan knows nothing compared to those in positions on NHL teams, I would say is incorrect because the fan can see the result and the facts after the season is over and the playoffs are complete. At this time, the facts and results are on the table and cannot be hidden.

For many on this forum, they see the facts because they follow the team and every game the team plays.

However, each fan can interpret the result differently, which becomes opinion on how they see the facts based on their knowledge of the game.

I actually enjoy reading the difference of opinion...just like this post has, yet again, brought us an opinion (which Elvis15 has noted); and like all opinions, it can be debated until the Earth blows up and the only thing remaining of the Canucks are ashes.

[Pete M]

Please list the dmen that JB shoulda woulda coulda brought in. And do keep in mind that the Canuck cannot offer up numerous picks and prospects like Edm or Cal did at the draft. Oh, and our best players are +30 and have NMCs.

The Canucks have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th round picks every year.

Those D men were available and others like Meyers, Boychuk, Leddy, Mitchell...and many more.

It is more about evaluating what you have...and JB things what they have is good enough.

2011, the Canucks had Salo, Erhoff, Hamhuis, Bieksa, etc...all in their prime, except Salo, who was one of the most under rated "D" in the league. It comes down to over valuing and under valuing a players worth. The Canucks "D" was undervalued in 2011 because when they walked, they were not replaced by the same quality.

Even Mitchell went on to win two cup after he was let to walk in 2010; if they had Mitchell in 2011, one could say they could have been holding the cup...Mitchell was under valued just like the rest of them.

[Pete M]

because the "D" has been under valued in the past...the Canucks are left with what they have...I guess they deserve what they have.

[aqua59]

love the positive look...we've read the negative look a thousand times...i'm looking forward to seeing the team that benning is building....he knows bartkowski and thinks he'll help this club....sutter could surprise a lot of people and even pittsburgh fans, if he can gel with his line mates...markstrom can learn from miller and eventually be the goalie florida thought they had....dorsett, prust and sbisa add some toughness to the roster....over the next couple of years, this team will be rebuilt....i love the method of not a complete rebuild...this takes patience but not as much as a full rebuild would....good job, trev and jim.

To add to this, if JB did nothing he'd be criticized for that too by the same people. I like the fact we have a management group that is staying the course with their plan. Ownership knows is too.

[gino#29]

all the negativity in this thread,you guys are a bunch of whiners.i remember when jim banning and his brother brian played for the canucks.he's the gm i want,he was highly touted as one of the best in the league at evaluating talent.now we have horvat,virtanen,casuals,mccain,subban,cederholm,shinkaruk.thats some excellent drafting.this is you guys.WHAAA,WHAAA we gave up a second round pick.WHAA WHAA we gave up a fifth round pick.don't worry your pretty little heads we;ll get your precoius 5th back in another trade.

[gino#29]

Benning has drafted really well.

Some of his trades and most of his signings are seriously questionable.

For me, the direction this organisation is going in will result in the team being a continual 5-10 game playoff team rather than actually having a legitimate shot at winning the Cup.

if you make the playoffs you have a legitimate shot.

[5 decades and no cup]

The Canucks have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th round picks every year.

Those D men were available and others like Meyers, Boychuk, Leddy, Mitchell...and many more.

It is more about evaluating what you have...and JB things what they have is good enough.

2011, the Canucks had Salo, Erhoff, Hamhuis, Bieksa, etc...all in their prime, except Salo, who was one of the most under rated "D" in the league. It comes down to over valuing and under valuing a players worth. The Canucks "D" was undervalued in 2011 because when they walked, they were not replaced by the same quality.

Even Mitchell went on to win two cup after he was let to walk in 2010; if they had Mitchell in 2011, one could say they could have been holding the cup...Mitchell was under valued just like the rest of them.

I don't see where any of this is JBs doing. Those picks were missed by Gillis. As far as Mitchell goes, the management was very concerned about the terrible head injury. The Canucks were too close to the cap to take a gamble on a player with that kind of injury.

I think JB should be given some time to rebuild the d. Pedan and Brisbois are a good start. It looks to me that the developing process for young players has improved measurably, which will enhance the current and future prospects. I suspect there will be opportunities to pick up young (26/27yr) dmen in the coming UFA markets, as the Canuck cap hit will be much lower. Who knows, if they have a bad season this year, they'll likely pick up a good dman in the draft.

[gino#29]

This is what I find hilarious. I type a full response and this Canucklehead quotes only part of my post (which he can't even do right) to sound cool and then never actually replies to the topic.

:sigh:

Do either of you have something to say about the "non-mistakes"?

EDIT: removed the other post after it was removed from this thread.

canucklehead?you're not even a canucks fan?you have nothing better to do but troll the canucks?what a loser!!!!