DeNiro Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 And what of Voynov? If the Kings are such a Moral organization that the smuggling of prescription drugs across boarders is an instant contract termination how come wife assault convictions are deemed worthy for the team to stand behind their player? Perhaps Richards was caught red handed but there hasn't been any charges laid as far as I have seen, though I may be wrong about that. Well sadly I don't think there's any grounds for terminating contracts for assault (even though there should be) There is however a grounds for terminating contracts for drug use as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 As opposed to many, I expect the Kings to win this grievance. The NHL has been seeking ways to terminate players contracts (non-guaranteed) for years. This will be a foundation stone ruling for which we will see many more in the coming years. Players be warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 As opposed to many, I expect the Kings to win this grievance. The NHL has been seeking ways to terminate players contracts (non-guaranteed) for years. This will be a foundation stone ruling for which we will see many more in the coming years. Players be warned. I think the NHL has the upper hand (and the better lawyers). The NHL wins IMO, not because they have a better case, but because the NHLPA will cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 And yet you know very little about the detail of what actually happened in either case. We can assume Richards was charged at this point, where we know Kane hasn't been (as yet). Voyonov is a better comparable, even if there isn't as clear cut a policy on abuse within the NHL as there is for drugs. I don't know why this would be assumed. As of ten days ago: Since then though the NHLPA hasn’t filed a grievance and Richards still hasn’t been charged with anything. https://www.google.ca/search?q=mike+richards+charged&oq=mike+richards+charged&aqs=chrome..69i57.3521j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=mike+richards+charged&tbm=nws For a guy that rags on other people for not searching for things, you sure could have pretty quickly searched for whether or not Richards had been charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I don't know why this would be assumed. As of ten days ago: https://www.google.ca/search?q=mike+richards+charged&oq=mike+richards+charged&aqs=chrome..69i57.3521j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=mike+richards+charged&tbm=nws The charges are pretty much a foregone conclusion though. This is not an accusation, he was caught in possession of drugs at the border. As long as all proper procedures were taken and all police reports were filed correctly, he's gonna be charged. That being said, the seriousness of the charges and whether or not they would effect his NHL career have not been determined. I think the Kings organization looks pretty suspicious here as it's no secret they've been trying to dump Richards without success. That will definitely be taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 The charges are pretty much a foregone conclusion though. This is not an accusation, he was caught in possession of drugs at the border. As long as all proper procedures were taken and all police reports were filed correctly, he's gonna be charged. That being said, the seriousness of the charges and whether or not they would effect his NHL career have not been determined. I think the Kings organization looks pretty suspicious here as it's no secret they've been trying to dump Richards without success. That will definitely be taken into account. Eric Macramalla (lawyer and TSN contributor) stated that : it was reported that Richards was allegedly taken into custody at the Canadian/U.S. border in connection with the unlawful possession of OxyContin pills." Beyond his possible border arrest, not much is known regarding the RCMP’s investigation into Richards. So at this point, the precise reasons for termination are not known. Further, whatever transpired at the border constitutes nothing more than allegations against Richards. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmacramalla/2015/07/02/mike-richards-oxycontin-and-the-termination-of-his-contract/ I don't know what happened, but I feel like if he was caught 'red handed', it would have been mentioned in his article. That charges are clearly coming isn't as clear to me. For example, if he was caught red-handed, why the delay in laying formal charges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I don't know what happened, but I feel like if he was caught 'red handed', it would have been mentioned in his article. That charges are clearly coming isn't as clear to me. For example, if he was caught red-handed, why the delay in laying formal charges? I'm sure the Kings are aware of what happened. I doubt they would even toy with the idea of terminating his contract unless they thought they had grounds for it. That would mean they believe a charge is coming. You wouldn't be able to terminate a contract if they were legal prescription drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 About time, this should be reversed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I'm sure the Kings are aware of what happened. I doubt they would even toy with the idea of terminating his contract unless they thought they had grounds for it. That would mean they believe a charge is coming. You wouldn't be able to terminate a contract if they were legal prescription drugs. Macramalla disagrees with your position: I suspect, however, the Kings will not argue it killed the deal because Richards was picked up on possession since that argument is essentially an automatic loss for the team. Rather, expect the team to argue that it terminated the Richards deal because he failed to advise the team he had been arrested. The Kings were working on a trade that would have seen Richards shipped to another team, and at the eleventh hour, the Kings became aware of incident and had to pull the plug on the trade. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmacramalla/2015/08/01/whats-going-on-with-mike-richards/ Essentially, it is Richards' conduct AFTER the arrest that the Kings are claiming was reason for termination, not the alleged possession of oxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Good, I feel like this is one of the most obvious attempts at Cap Circumvention we have seen since the Salary Cap Era Began. They may have legitimately felt that he kept information from them - they supposedly found out while trying to trade him - but they never had a chance of pulling this off. The timing is just unbelievably bad for them. I think that they know they'll get his contract back and a fine slapped on them, but maybe they thought it would be worth it for the cap flexibility. This isn't a morality issue. It's a CBA issue. The agreement has strict provisions for drug cases that have a tonne of precedent. I really don't see LA winning this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Macramalla disagrees with your position: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmacramalla/2015/08/01/whats-going-on-with-mike-richards/ Essentially, it is Richards' conduct AFTER the arrest that the Kings are claiming was reason for termination, not the alleged possession of oxy. They said they suspect this is what happened. Just speculation, no more in the know than anything anyone on here would speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I think the NHL has the upper hand (and the better lawyers). The NHL wins IMO, not because they have a better case, but because the NHLPA will cave. This is the same Don Fehr that made sure a baseball player convicted of smuggling cocaine from Mexico into Texas for the purposes of trafficking had his contract paid out. (source: Macramella) I don't think there is any way they'll back down. This is an under-performing garbage contract on a cap team at UFA time....pretty much no way that they can let this precedent be set. As theminister said, this is a very important case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 They said they suspect this is what happened. Just speculation, no more in the know than anything anyone on here would speculate. But the only grounds they might have, based on the information that is public, is that he withheld information. They know that they can't terminate for drugs or for an arrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Well sadly I don't think there's any grounds for terminating contracts for assault (even though there should be) There is however a grounds for terminating contracts for drug use as far as I know. Nope. There is a collectively bargained drug policy that is mandatory for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 based on the information that is public Key phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 If they terminated Voynov's contract (or tried to at least), I would've been fine with them doing it to Richards. Either keep both or neither of them. It's not a gut-feel justice kind of thing. It's a CBA thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Nope. There is a collectively bargained drug policy that is mandatory for everybody. Yep. And players agree to not use any performance enhancing drugs. They break those terms, and there may be a case to terminate their contracts. Also if there is a charge that bars him from crossing the border, he wouldn't be able to play in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 This is the same Don Fehr that made sure a baseball player convicted of smuggling cocaine from Mexico into Texas for the purposes of trafficking had his contract paid out. (source: Macramella) I don't think there is any way they'll back down. This is an under-performing garbage contract on a cap team at UFA time....pretty much no way that they can let this precedent be set. As theminister said, this is a very important case. We'll see. The league has a stake in this too, and that's keeping a very important market to them strong. We've seen them bend the rules before, and I would not aat all be shocked to see them do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Key phrase. I'm not saying they aren't withholding information. Who knows what they're secrets are? I'm just saying, based on what we know, given all the precedents, it can't just be for doing drugs and getting arrested. Yep. And players agree to not use any performance enhancing drugs. They break those terms, and there may be a case to terminate their contracts. Also if there is a charge that bars him from crossing the border, he wouldn't be able to play in the NHL. There is a only a termination here if he refuses to follow the drug program, which in the case of an arrest, also includes detox. You can't just find out a guy is playing on the greasy side of town and just drop his contract, there is a process. And a tonne of precedent cases. LA is either knowingly breaking the rules, or they think that there is some other ground to terminate - i.e. withholding information, or some dark secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 We'll see. The league has a stake in this too, and that's keeping a very important market to them strong. We've seen them bend the rules before, and I would not aat all be shocked to see them do it again. This is one the NHL would love to win, but it's one the NHLPA just cannot afford to lose. Consider also the fact that this is a pain-killer, not crack. Oxy addiction is an occupational risk, and very common. Also, 29 other management groups are more than likely pissed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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