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1 minute ago, J.R. said:

:lol: Temper and commenting on my reading ability! :lol:

 

I'm not the one having problems with reading comprehension here...

 

The FULL quote:

 

AKA: He's struggles defensively at the AHL level, not being even NHL replacement quality right now and that's not going to improve playing against the top competition in the world at the NHL level this fall.

 

Elvis could certainly have written it more clearly but it it is not I having trouble understanding words on a page.

Im on vacation and don't really want to be arguing about this. You seem to be reading it differently then I. Im reading it as him saying his defensive abilities aren't going to get better and he won't ever play against NHL talents.

 

I don't rip on Subban, I'm realistic about his abilities. And those abilities are him having trouble playing defence in the AHLwhich isn't going to get better - even to the point of being NHL replacement level acceptable - against some of the top competition in the world. I won't even hold my breath in October.

 

In my mind he's saying that his defensive abilities won't improve and he won't make the NHL. And no where does he say that Subban will ever be NHL ready as your implying. 

 

Anyways agree to disagree but you should reduce your trolling as it doesn't suite you..oh well

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3 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

I don't rip on Subban, I'm realistic about his abilities. And those abilities are him having trouble playing defence in the AHLwhich isn't going to get better - even to the point of being NHL replacement level acceptable - against some of the top competition in the world. I won't even hold my breath in October.

You're not reading the FULL statement. Perhaps that's why you"re not getting a FULL understanding :picard:

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1 minute ago, J.R. said:

You're not reading the FULL statement. Perhaps that's why you"re not getting a FULL understanding :picard:

hahaha omg I can't believe this. He's saying Subban won't be a 7th D. "Replacement level". Holding breath in October means Subban doesn't even have a chance this training camp.

 

Anyways your reading it differently and this argument has wasted enough of my time. Perhaps another poster could give they're input to settle the matter. Or Elvis could clear up his meaning. Anyways peace

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25 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

hahaha omg I can't believe this. He's saying Subban won't be a 7th D. "Replacement level". Holding breath in October means Subban doesn't even have a chance this training camp.

 

Anyways your reading it differently and this argument has wasted enough of my time. Perhaps another poster could give they're input to settle the matter. Or Elvis could clear up his meaning. Anyways peace

Subban was a late 3rd Round pick. His chances of making the NHL always were against odds. His offensive game has flourished in the AHL but his d-side not developed well enough yet to warrant NHL play. 2 pro seasons, entering his 3rd. To early to say he won't make it but it could easily be 2 more seasons in the AHL. I believe his contract is up after this coming year. IMHO Subban is the type of player who could be overwhelmed by improving Canuck defensive prospects. 

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I hope we give this kid a shot on a team that is starving for offense from the blueline. In the past, we signed and played fringe NHLer's like Raphael Diaz and Yannick Weber for their "offensive abilities", yet we all knew their defense was severely lacking. It's not like this team is a cup-contending team, and we've given other rookies plenty of opportunities.

 

I think he'll get at least one game on the Canucks this year.

 

 

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2 hours ago, J.R. said:

Who's doing that? Why is it asking for patience (for a young, not ready prospect) on here gets construed as 'hate', 'doubt' or 'giving up on'?

It's much easier to create a black-and-white dichotomy rather than consider a varied spectrum:

 

1. Subban deserves to play on the Canucks and must do so

2. Subban is a total bust and will never make the NHL

 

Only two possibilities so if you don't hold to one you must necessarily hold to the other.

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I've mentioned it in other threads, but Subby will get at least 2 games with our split squad games being in China this year. The kid is going to score. There's no 2 ways about it. He scored in his 1 pre-season game as a 19 year old and had an assist in his 1 game last year as a 21 year old. His 1st AHL season the Comets went to France *epic face palm* 

 

I hope he studied Ryan Ellis hard like his brother told him. Jordan has a 100 mph shot and he can get it through the gaps. It's something that Stetcher just can't do. If he can even develop a passable defense then he is an asset that the Canucks should be coveting.

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8 hours ago, 250Integra said:

I hope we give this kid a shot on a team that is starving for offense from the blueline. In the past, we signed and played fringe NHLer's like Raphael Diaz and Yannick Weber for their "offensive abilities", yet we all knew their defense was severely lacking. It's not like this team is a cup-contending team, and we've given other rookies plenty of opportunities.

 

I think he'll get at least one game on the Canucks this year.

 

 

Subban's defensive deficiencies make those guys look like all star dmen.  That's how poor hiss defense is.  That doesn't mean he won't put it all together, eventually.  But, based on last season, he's a long way from any time in the NHL.

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43 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

I've mentioned it in other threads, but Subby will get at least 2 games with our split squad games being in China this year. The kid is going to score. There's no 2 ways about it. He scored in his 1 pre-season game as a 19 year old and had an assist in his 1 game last year as a 21 year old. His 1st AHL season the Comets went to France *epic face palm* 

 

I hope he studied Ryan Ellis hard like his brother told him. Jordan has a 100 mph shot and he can get it through the gaps. It's something that Stetcher just can't do. If he can even develop a passable defense then he is an asset that the Canucks should be coveting.

100mph?  What's the source on that?  Legitimately asking

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8 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

@2:37 That was the highlight of his call-up. I guess people missed that one.

 

 

Yup, missed it.  In any case, no one doubts his offensive ability and that's not what is keeping him out of the NHL.

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To me, it comes down to this. It seems that though Subban can score, likely as well if not better than any Dman we have in our system...the opposition scores more, much more.  Subban was -12 last year, in Utica; the main reason his stats looked halfway decent was the 10 PP goals he scored (out of his 16 total). That -12 would have been a hell of a lot worse in the NHL.

Subban evidently cannot defend at the AHL level. Again, yes, he can score and we need pretty much all the scoring we can get from our D...but not at the expense of allowing the opposition to score at will.

@Boudriaspointed out that he was a 3rd round pick, with little real chance of making it. @stawnsnotes that he still lacks even halfway decent defensive abilities at the AHL level. And if you look at all of the D in our system right now, Subban isn't top ten..in fact to me he barely makes the top 15.

It's time to move on from him. He's a name, with some scoring, and little else (no pun intended). But sure, let's see what he does this year in Utica. Let's see if he can show that he's better than: Pedan, Weicioch, Holm, Brisebois, Chatfield, McEneny, Biega and Juolevi (those being the players he will have to pass to earn a spot in Vancouver).

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1 hour ago, Father Ryan said:

To me, it comes down to this. It seems that though Subban can score, likely as well if not better than any Dman we have in our system...the opposition scores more, much more.  Subban was -12 last year, in Utica; the main reason his stats looked halfway decent was the 10 PP goals he scored (out of his 16 total). That -12 would have been a hell of a lot worse in the NHL.

Subban evidently cannot defend at the AHL level. Again, yes, he can score and we need pretty much all the scoring we can get from our D...but not at the expense of allowing the opposition to score at will.

@Boudriaspointed out that he was a 3rd round pick, with little real chance of making it. @stawnsnotes that he still lacks even halfway decent defensive abilities at the AHL level. And if you look at all of the D in our system right now, Subban isn't top ten..in fact to me he barely makes the top 15.

It's time to move on from him. He's a name, with some scoring, and little else (no pun intended). But sure, let's see what he does this year in Utica. Let's see if he can show that he's better than: Pedan, Weicioch, Holm, Brisebois, Chatfield, McEneny, Biega and Juolevi (those being the players he will have to pass to earn a spot in Vancouver).

Pedan is behind Subban imo he has great straight ahead speed, but he doesn't make good decisions and his lateral skating is bad . Weircoch is a 6/7, Holm is a 6/7, Brisebois needs 2 years in the AHL, Chatfield is a wildcard. That kid competes like crazy and he loves to block shots, but he's 1-2 years, McEneny needs to play. We saw when he came up he got games and was starting to get the hang of the game at the NHL level and then he sat for awhile in the pressbox and wasn't quite the same when he went back to Utica, Biega is the Captain of Utica, he should have been last year but that injury report last season is comical, Juolevi is the odd man out and another year getting stronger in a lesser league would be best for him.

 

Development means not pushing your kids into spots they aren't ready for, but in the salary cap era the GM has to manipulate player salaries within the rules and keep players in the minors for longer. This is Subban's last year to make an impression to the Canucks' brass. Will they lock him up to those RFA years next July? Stay tuned. Dun Dun Dun......

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On 7/28/2017 at 10:04 AM, RetroCanuck said:

hahaha omg I can't believe this. He's saying Subban won't be a 7th D. "Replacement level". Holding breath in October means Subban doesn't even have a chance this training camp.

 

Anyways your reading it differently and this argument has wasted enough of my time. Perhaps another poster could give they're input to settle the matter. Or Elvis could clear up his meaning. Anyways peace

Let's start with the quote again:

On 7/28/2017 at 1:25 AM, elvis15 said:

...

I don't rip on Subban, I'm realistic about his abilities. And those abilities are him having trouble playing defence in the AHL, which isn't going to get better - even to the point of being NHL replacement level acceptable - against some of the top competition in the world. I won't even hold my breath in October.

The first thing we need to do is understand sentence structure - which J.R. correctly did. That dash ( - ) is just used is to allow someone to interject an extra but related point into a sentence with more emphasis that just using commas. If there's any confusion reading the sentence, one should read only the content outside the dashes and then consider the content within afterwards.

 

So:

On 7/28/2017 at 1:25 AM, elvis15 said:

And those abilities are him having trouble playing defence in the AHL, which isn't going to get better - even to the point of being NHL replacement level acceptable - against some of the top competition in the world.

You've definitely been leaving out the last half of the bolded part and, as J.R. said, it changes the meaning from a finality to a qualified statement.

 

I'll restate anyway if it's still unclear: Subban's defence is a knock against him and he will have a nearly impossible time trying to improve it if he's forced to play against NHL players rather than easier competition in the AHL.

 

His offence will keep him in the mix, but his defence will keep him from getting a better chance until he improves a little more. The good thing is he doesn't require waivers yet and can do a lot more in the AHL.

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On 28/07/2017 at 10:44 AM, 250Integra said:

I hope we give this kid a shot on a team that is starving for offense from the blueline. In the past, we signed and played fringe NHLer's like Raphael Diaz and Yannick Weber for their "offensive abilities", yet we all knew their defense was severely lacking. It's not like this team is a cup-contending team, and we've given other rookies plenty of opportunities.

 

I think he'll get at least one game on the Canucks this year.

 

 

Y would we just hand him a roster spot.... Just because we have nothing to lose. Lol ridiculous. It's the nhl, you have to earn your spot... He's outside of our top 10 D, makes no sense to have him on the team lol

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21 hours ago, elvis15 said:

Let's start with the quote again:

The first thing we need to do is understand sentence structure - which J.R. correctly did.

And even with my temper fueled, poor reading comprehension :lol:

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On July 27, 2017 at 3:08 AM, alfstonker said:

I think it was.

 

The Canucks team especially the D was packed with young players - they need the experience and the chance to play while not under the same pressure. Also to place a guy who's weakness is DEFENCE into an already young team is unfair to the rest of that team  - by the way it is a fallacy that these games meant nothing, it's the opposite in fact, they are, as I said a chance for the team to gel and gain experience while not under the same pressure.

 

Why is it that half of CDC constantly think they know better than guys who have been in the game, whether playing, coaching, scouting or management at a high level?

 

People need to stop acting like this is a pub team and devaluing the importance of EARNING your chances  - Crying "unfair" just because some players write funky twitter feeds and act the clown while taking the easy route because doing what the coach is asking is apparently too difficult. We had it with Jake and Kassian. Meanwhile these same fans hammer good pro's who appreciate the value of the work that needs to be done to first get a chance and then to stay in this league.

 

This boy needs to work on his WEAKNESSES, he has been told that for two seasons now and he has apparently hardly moved forward. It may be unfair but he comes over as cocky and over confident, so maybe he is one of those players who thinks they know better than the coach - I hope not but time is running out and we are drafting and moving up players who will take his spot, if he fails to wake up and improve his defence.

But playing guys who aren't 100% in meaningless games is fair? 

 

I'm not saying Subban deserve or doesn't deserve be on the main roster, but when the team is playing for nothing. It's best to rest up your players, who might be hampering with injuries (Hutton, Stecher, Tanev) and get some of the youngins a taste of the NHL life. Every single NHL team, does this to some degree, it isn't an uncommon thing.

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I'm glad it's Coach Green deciding who to bring up and not WD anymore. If Green thinks the kid deserves a couple games I think Subban might get a cupofcoffee. 

Plus I don't think our PP will suck as bad as it did last year-- when a homeless man off the street had a better chance of scoring than our PP did last year.

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