smokes Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I started this thread because the amount of people fans and media are beginning to write the Sedins off because he is getting older bothers me so much. The Sedins are only 34, Not comparing stats or anything but players like Lidstrom played at a high level for almost all of his career and he retired at 42. It is focusing too far into the future with talks of succession plans and retirement to make this fun anymore. I mean one or two articles is enough, lets focus more on the now. Iginla was written off by Calgary as too old and he ended up having good productive seasons on other teams and he is still doing it albiet looking as lost as Trevor Linden was when he was not in a Canucks uniform. As a Canucks fan, I hope to the higher being above me that I get to watch the Sedins in a Canucks uniform for as long Lidstrom, If the fans and the media focus more on how well they are playing at their ages and actually appreciate them. Daniel Sedin had 76 points last year, the most he has had since 2011. Henrik had 73 points last year, also the most since 2011. The Sedins are not showing any signs of decline at all. So to me this talk about retirement and succession plan is frustrating. P.S.- Some of strongest people who have no problem competing with younger players are also between 30-40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 A lot of people are saying the Sedins should retire. A lot of people are idiots as well. My response is: should we really be looking to get rid of two players who were 9th and 13th in overall scoring last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's all about speed and puck control. For Lidstrom it was in his zone, out quickly, easy shift, shift after shift after shift. For the Sedin heyday it was start in offensive zone, pass it around, wear 3rd-pairing defenders down, score. They were rarely used in their own zone and when they did start there it was brought out with speed by either them or Erhoff. Now it's getting harder to shelter them, (and yes they need sheltering) they're not as quick themselves, Daniel has lost his 'a' shot, and the defense is lacking a quick skater. They can last, but it will take a lot of effort to shelter them. Meanwhile, our young players will also need sheltering. So there's a fine balance to maintain now and into the final Sedin seasons here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Can the Sedins be effective for three more years as the grind continues? Who knows but Daniel is already not the player he was. His wrister is all but gone. Henrik is still awesome and carries the line but we do need to look to the future. That's not saying getting rid of them. Just prepare for the exit. This is probably their last contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Phooey Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Given that the Sedins are uber-fit and their game is cerebral, I would think that the immediate future for them is pretty good. As with all players in the mid to late 30's, I think their game needs to be managed (like the masterful way AV managed their game). That's not a knock against them...they have never been great all-situational players and we all saw what a colossal disaster it was when Tortorella tried to make them such players. I think they will continue to be productive for the duration of their current contracts, but organizationally, they need to be depended on a whole lot less than they have been. Unfortunately, the Canucks don't have the players ready to take over, so the Sedins are going to be ridden hard like American Pharoh, which is too bad, because IMO, the Sedins in second line roles providing secondary scoring would make the Canucks Stanley Cup contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's all about speed and puck control. For Lidstrom it was in his zone, out quickly, easy shift, shift after shift after shift. For the Sedin heyday it was start in offensive zone, pass it around, wear 3rd-pairing defenders down, score. They were rarely used in their own zone and when they did start there it was brought out with speed by either them or Erhoff. Now it's getting harder to shelter them, (and yes they need sheltering) they're not as quick themselves, Daniel has lost his 'a' shot, and the defense is lacking a quick skater. They can last, but it will take a lot of effort to shelter them. Meanwhile, our young players will also need sheltering. So there's a fine balance to maintain now and into the final Sedin seasons here. Our D should actually be faster this year. That's not saying much as it's still lacking skill and faster than last year's slow still doesn't mean fast but hey, it's at least forward progress in the right direction. And Bartowski's first pass is pretty good which should mean easier/better/faster transition out of our zone. As for sheltering...I have a feeling that was one of the many reasons to get Sutter. Sutter and Horvat's lines are going to eat up a LOT of the defensive zone play. A LOT. What do you think that leaves for the Sedins? Personally I can see them easily play until 38-40 in that scenario. Especially as they ease back to even cushier 2nd line status in the last 2-3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Lindstrom wasn't the same style of player imo. Sedins should last longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Because they play for the Canucks, are 2nd liners, and soon to be 3rd liners. They are washed up.... if you ask a bunch of Canuck fans... If they played for any other team, the fan base would be clamouring for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchoball Cannons Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The shape that these guys keep themselves in and their ability to control the play, I see no reason barring injuries that they can't play into their 40's. People in this market are generally a bunch of morons when it comes to evaluating players. I believe it all starts with all the negative reporters, who seem to be listened to far to often by the public ( Gallagher, Pratt, Botchford ect.) They have been nothing but exemplary superstars for this team and the only year in question for them is during the debacle that was the Tortarella era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think the miles put on by top line forwards can be a lot harder than those put on by top line D-men. You lose a step as a top line forward and it's very noticeable. You lose a step as a top line D-man, and you can do other things in the defensive zone to make up for that to extend your career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 I can see the Sedins lowering salary as the years go by and they eventually drift down to the second or third line. People forget the the PK was once their bread and butter so they know how to play that way. Daniel's wrister may not be there anymore but he did evolve into more of a playmaker. I must disagree with the assessment that the Sedins were sheltered. While they did have more offensive zone starts than others on the team, this practice is not uncommon among teams in the NHL. In retrospect, I believe they were pushed around more than most in their early years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The Sedins will be 38 at the end of these contracts, I will not be surprised to see a 1-2 year contract to finish their careers. I would be very happy to see them retire as Canucks at 39-40. Of course they will slow down, Lidstrom is a special case, that is not the norm at all. I see the Sedins more like Daniel Alfredson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think the miles put on by top line forwards can be a lot harder than those put on by top line D-men. You lose a step as a top line forward and it's very noticeable. You lose a step as a top line D-man, and you can do other things in the defensive zone to make up for that. Speed was never their game anyways. They always seem to end up slowing the play down so if they lose a step they can adjust. When you consider the merry-go-round of players they got shuffle around with, Playing the tough opponents for so long, their game is always all about adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I can see the Sedins lowering salary as the years go by and they eventually drift down to the second or third line. People forget the the PK was once their bread and butter so they know how to play that way. Daniel's wrister may not be there anymore but he did evolve into more of a playmaker. I must disagree with the assessment that the Sedins were sheltered. While they did have more offensive zone starts than others on the team, this practice is not uncommon among teams in the NHL. In retrospect, I believe they were pushed around more than most in their early years. Of which I dare say is the definition "sheltered". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Our D should actually be faster this year. That's not saying much as it's still lacking skill and faster than last year's slow still doesn't mean fast but hey, it's at least forward progress in the right direction. And Bartowski's first pass is pretty good which should mean easier/better/faster transition out of our zone. As for sheltering...I have a feeling that was one of the many reasons to get Sutter. Sutter and Horvat's lines are going to eat up a LOT of the defensive zone play. A LOT. What do you think that leaves for the Sedins? Personally I can see them easily play until 38-40 in that scenario. Especially as they ease back to even cushier 2nd line status in the last 2-3 years.Who's faster on d this year? Agreed on Sutter. Bonino was getting physically destroyed all last season long and he's probably pretty glad to be out. At least Sutter is accustomed and better suited for this role. However, Matthias could've done essentially the same thing for less money, if we could convince Matthias to do it, but he didn't want to. Meh. Sutter's a Sutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neversummer Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think comparing Dmen and forwards might not be a fair comparison. Jagr is still playing and productive but there are very few players like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Of which I dare say is the definition "sheltered". Put the top guns in the offensive zone, I call it strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Who's faster on d this year? Agreed on Sutter. Bonino was getting physically destroyed all last season long and he's probably pretty glad to be out. At least Sutter is accustomed and better suited for this role. However, Matthias could've done essentially the same thing for less money, if we could convince Matthias to do it, but he didn't want to. Meh. Sutter's a Sutter. Bartowski and Corrado in, Bieksa out. And as I said, Bartowski makes a good first pass. We have guys whor are marginally faster and better at transitioning the puck. It's not much but it's something. As for Matthias...One can make an argument of the quality comparability of Bonino/Sutter but Matthias shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath. He's clearly a notch below either of those guys. Less IQ, nowhere near as polished defensively, worse at face offs, lacks consistency, less compete level than Sutter in particular. No Matthias could not have done 'essentially the same thing'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's easier to predict failure than success. Making claims like the Sedins will have another good season hurts your internet street cred. The Sedins have been hearing about their inevitable decline for the past few years and they just continue to put on their helmets and head into the trenches and do what they always do; slow the game down, chew up the clock and score points. I will take an allegedly worn out Sedin combo any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 A better comparison would be igor larianov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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