Investing in the stock market - Discussion

[ronthecivil]

21 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Nice job! I have to learn how to do such things.  At what WTI price do you start selling? Q2 reports for most of my names come out in June. All should have dividend increases combined with share buybacks.  

I already divested like 60% of my oil holdings because I rode through the bottom, often owning scary amounts that I wanted back. But now my oil holdings I own for free. So I am all in so long as oil prices stay above call it 70 dollars a barrel. If that's ten years of high dividends and share buy backs, so be it.

 

That said, if there's another 5x or 10x jump, I will once again sell half, and pay off debt/buy a vehicle/invest in something else.

 

 

[ronthecivil]

21 hours ago, Warhippy said:

People will suggest that at some point in time the government steps in to control prices. Without ever ever understanding that the government is getting fat and greedy off taxation from such high prices of production and at the pumps

 

That $8 head of lettuce is coming

Uh, how?

 

The Saudis can do that because they own the oil company and right now they also use it to fund social programs (for now). But even they can't control the price of oil. 

 

The world has been punching down on supply. The world is primed and ready to get out of the house, driving up demand. What do you think is going to happen?

 

The price will rise until such point that demand drops to the point where prices stabilize. The only cure for high prices is high prices.

 

If Canada wanted a National Energy Program V2.0 they could have jumped in two years ago.

 

We are at the mercy of world markets. Unless you want to be a hermit Kingdom ala North Korea.....

[Chris12345]

21 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

The people suggesting things like that are basically asking for Communism. Those people can go fly a kite.

 

The gasoline tax is not a % of total price at the pump. It's a fixed amount per litre. The Government is not making more as the price rises unless they adjust the amount of tax per litre. Dramatic price rises as we have seen often bring about curtailed usage and less total litres being sold. Which would result in the Government collecting less total revenue not more.

 

Last week I saw a similar discussion on Facebook where people were bitching that the Government was making out like bandits. I was tempted to post the inconvenient truth above, but thought better of it. Those people were not interested in the truth. They just wanted to bitch about stuff and blame someone else. C'est la vie.

I'm curious to learn how GST is computed into the cost of gas?

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Chris12345

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

Uh, how?

 

The Saudis can do that because they own the oil company and right now they also use it to fund social programs (for now). But even they can't control the price of oil. 

 

The world has been punching down on supply. The world is primed and ready to get out of the house, driving up demand. What do you think is going to happen?

 

The price will rise until such point that demand drops to the point where prices stabilize. The only cure for high prices is high prices.

 

If Canada wanted a National Energy Program V2.0 they could have jumped in two years ago.

 

We are at the mercy of world markets. Unless you want to be a hermit Kingdom ala North Korea.....

Saudi Aramco went public a couple of years back. I don't know how much of it the Saudi's kept? I'd be real curious to know how much Canadian crude is going south by rail. When prices took off I remember the CEO of Suncor (could be wrong) saying that the industry could boost production by 400,000 boe/day with modest investment. He thought Line 3 could boost volumes by 85,000 boe/day. 

 

Biden is so desperate for crude he asked the Saudi to boost production. I had heard they were facing some field issues. Biden even authorized the import of Venezuelan crude to the USA. Their crude is a direct competitor of our's. They wrecked their fields.  The Americans have proven to be so so friends of ours both with Trump and Biden. I have argued for years that Canada should export all the crude we can produce. It would provide money for social services, diversification of our economy, meeting military spending need and conversion cost to green energy.   

[ronthecivil]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Saudi Aramco went public a couple of years back. I don't know how much of it the Saudi's kept? I'd be real curious to know how much Canadian crude is going south by rail. When prices took off I remember the CEO of Suncor (could be wrong) saying that the industry could boost production by 400,000 boe/day with modest investment. He thought Line 3 could boost volumes by 85,000 boe/day. 

 

Biden is so desperate for crude he asked the Saudi to boost production. I had heard they were facing some field issues. Biden even authorized the import of Venezuelan crude to the USA. Their crude is a direct competitor of our's. They wrecked their fields.  The Americans have proven to be so so friends of ours both with Trump and Biden. I have argued for years that Canada should export all the crude we can produce. It would provide money for social services, diversification of our economy, meeting military spending need and conversion cost to green energy.   

Canadian oil is easy to pick on because were close and our oil reserves were never counted in the original peak oil calculations. So there's a plan to stop it because, well, it's actually sorta feasible given enough political pressure.

 

So the only option is to give back political pressure. Continue to point out that our competition is a corrupt communist state that openly hates the US, an entrenched Monarchy that while nominally friendly for financial reasons is the birthplace of the 911 hijackers, or a Kleptocracy that is using the money to rape Ukrainian women and shoot Ukrainians children.

 

We actually try to minimize our environmental impact. None of the above do.

 

Let's see how much opposition there is to oil sand developments when gas prices hit four bucks a litre and ten dollars a gallon.

[nuckin_futz]

7 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

Canadian oil is easy to pick on because were close and our oil reserves were never counted in the original peak oil calculations. So there's a plan to stop it because, well, it's actually sorta feasible given enough political pressure.

 

So the only option is to give back political pressure. Continue to point out that our competition is a corrupt communist state that openly hates the US, an entrenched Monarchy that while nominally friendly for financial reasons is the birthplace of the 911 hijackers, or a Kleptocracy that is using the money to rape Ukrainian women and shoot Ukrainians children.

 

We actually try to minimize our environmental impact. None of the above do.

 

Let's see how much opposition there is to oil sand developments when gas prices hit four bucks a litre and ten dollars a gallon.

If Tar Sand oil (bitumen) was used to make gasoline the cost per litre would probably have be around $4 per litre to justify the double refining cost.

[Elias Pettersson]

12 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

I'm curious to learn how GST is computed into the cost of gas?

 

It's inclusive of the price.  So if your cost to fill up is $100, then your GST is $4.76.  The more you pay the higher the GST...

[NickTheGreek]

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Ricebran Technologies

 

Check it out!

[Chris12345]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

It's inclusive of the price.  So if your cost to fill up is $100, then your GST is $4.76.  The more you pay the higher the GST...

Thanks. That would then increase revenue for the Government? 

[Elias Pettersson]

29 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

Thanks. That would then increase revenue for the Government? 

Of course. All the other taxes for gas are on a per litre basis, however the GST you pay is directly based on the total cost. 
 

Same with food and everything else. The more you pay the higher the GST cost as well as the PST so inflation technically increases government revenue. Higher real estate prices also increases government revenue as the amount of tax you pay is directly based on the value of your home, whether it’s your property taxes or the transfer tax that you pay when you purchase a home. 

[flanny]

10 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

If Tar Sand oil (bitumen) was used to make gasoline the cost per litre would probably have be around $4 per litre to justify the double refining cost.

Oh no, definitely not. Suncor's main product is refined down to synthetic purity (easier to refine than wti) before it's shipped south (syncrude) . The break even for that product is under $40 a bbl. Some pretty cheap gasoline can be produced for that price.

 

Syncrude cash operating costs of $32.00 – $35.00 (US $24.65 – $26.95) per barrel is based on the assumptions that: (i) Syncrude will produce 170,000 – 185,000 bbls/d of synthetic crude oil (net to Suncor); and (ii) natural gas used at Syncrude (AECO – C Spot ($CAD)) will be priced at an average of $2.50/GJ over 2021.Nov 30, 2020

Edited May 26, 2022 by flanny

[Elias Pettersson]

23 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Not sure about the government no taking a %. When I was in the business the government takes were always expressed in cents per litre but if memory serves the formula used was a %. That said the tax rate per litre didn't change much. Trying to research this is tough. Maybe your right as the taxes are almost the same for many years. 

Here's a list of all the taxes you pay on a litre of gas in B.C.:

 

Provincial motor fuel tax (Metro Vancouver) — 1.75 cents 

Provincial motor fuel tax (everywhere else in B.C.) — 7.75 cents.

B.C.'s carbon tax — 8.89 cents.

The B.C. Transportation Finance Authority tax — 6.75 cents.

TransLink tax (If you live in Metro Vancouver) — 17 cents, increasing to 18.5 cents on July 1.

Transit tax (If you live in Victoria) — 5.5 cents.

Federal excise tax — 10 cents.

Finally, pay the five per cent Goods and Services Tax on top of the total price.

 

When you add it all up, you're paying more than 60 cents a litre in tax if you live in Metro Vancouver.

 

Why do you pay so much for gas? Here's a hint: It's not just taxes | CBC News

 

 

[Boudrias]

I left the industry in 2001 and at that time the federal excise tax and sales tax totaled 17 cents per litre. Provincially the road tax was another 17 cents a litre. Not trusting my memory I found the BC Ministry of Finance Tax Bulletin dates April/2022. I stand corrected;

 

BC PROVINCIAL Tax: Not including urban transit taxes

BCTFA      $0.0675 cents per litre

Prov Tax     0.0775

Carbon Tx  0.1105   

                   0.2555 cents per litre

 

Federal Tax:  Exise tax is the only mention, no sales tax. That might have been removed when GST was brought in.

Excise Tx           $0.10

GST ($2 gas)       0.10  

                            0.20 cents per litre

 

Combined tax take on road gasoline excluding urban transit taxes: $0.2555 + $0.20 = $0.4555 per litre of gasoline or 22.8% of the pump price. Every one in BC pays this. 

[nuckin_futz]

1 hour ago, flanny said:

Oh no, definitely not. Suncor's main product is refined down to synthetic purity (easier to refine than wti) before it's shipped south (syncrude) . The break even for that product is under $40 a bbl. Some pretty cheap gasoline can be produced for that price.

 

Syncrude cash operating costs of $32.00 – $35.00 (US $24.65 – $26.95) per barrel is based on the assumptions that: (i) Syncrude will produce 170,000 – 185,000 bbls/d of synthetic crude oil (net to Suncor); and (ii) natural gas used at Syncrude (AECO – C Spot ($CAD)) will be priced at an average of $2.50/GJ over 2021.Nov 30, 2020

Thank you for the correction. I was just spit balling hence the word probably in my post.

 

Apart from Suncor I understand only 1/3 of Tar Sand oil is refined down to synthetic before moving south.

[Boudrias]

36 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Thank you for the correction. I was just spit balling hence the word probably in my post.

 

Apart from Suncor I understand only 1/3 of Tar Sand oil is refined down to synthetic before moving south.

Check out refining capacity to determine why. Western Canada probably has 600,000 boe per day of refining capacity. Some operations are more cost effective to operate on conventional crude. The heavy oil piped south has Texas Gulf Coast refineries that are built specifically to refine heavier crudes like Canada and Venezula.  

Canadian synthetic crude products are world leaders on emission. 

[nuckin_futz]

1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

Check out refining capacity to determine why. Western Canada probably has 600,000 boe per day of refining capacity. Some operations are more cost effective to operate on conventional crude. The heavy oil piped south has Texas Gulf Coast refineries that are built specifically to refine heavier crudes like Canada and Venezula.  

Canadian synthetic crude products are world leaders on emission. 

I wonder if anyone has ever done a cost feasibility on building the refining capacity up here. Seems rather daft shipping it south for them to refine then shipping it back north in the form of gasoline.

[Boudrias]

6 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

I wonder if anyone has ever done a cost feasibility on building the refining capacity up here. Seems rather daft shipping it south for them to refine then shipping it back north in the form of gasoline.

Never heard of refined USA gas being shipped back to Canada. Definitely not in western Canada. Surplus of gas in the west and it is shipped south. Major refineries today are at least 500,000 boe/day. Cost to build in multi billions. Shell Scotford was 100,000 boe/day back in the '80's and has been expanded to 255,000. You won't get another refinery built here IMO. Suncor, Shell, Esso are the big ones. Co-op is smaller.   

[nuckin_futz]

15 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Never heard of refined USA gas being shipped back to Canada. Definitely not in western Canada. Surplus of gas in the west and it is shipped south. Major refineries today are at least 500,000 boe/day. Cost to build in multi billions. Shell Scotford was 100,000 boe/day back in the '80's and has been expanded to 255,000. You won't get another refinery built here IMO. Suncor, Shell, Esso are the big ones. Co-op is smaller.   

Gasoline Imports

Just as Canadian refineries process both domestic and imported oil, gasoline terminals import gasoline in addition to domestic supply. Although Canada is a net exporter of gasoline, some imports are required to meet local demand due to differences in regional production. Quebec generally imports the most gasoline, much of which is subsequently shipped to Ontario. The Atlantic Provinces and British Columbia are the next largest importers of gasoline. The Yukon occasionally imports gasoline from Alaska. The European Union (E.U.) and the U.S. are both large sources of these imports. In 2017, the E.U. exported 5.0 billion litres to Canada, and the U.S. Energy Information Administration reported 1.2 billion litres of finished motor gasoline exports to Canada.

 

https://www.rec-cer.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-commodities/crude-oil-petroleum-products/report/2019-gasoline/index.html

[ronthecivil]

2 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

I wonder if anyone has ever done a cost feasibility on building the refining capacity up here. Seems rather daft shipping it south for them to refine then shipping it back north in the form of gasoline.

Well there is one in Burnaby and one in Prince George at a minimum. But why would someone build a new refinery? Aren't we transitioning to electric cars?

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, nuckin_futz said:

Gasoline Imports

Just as Canadian refineries process both domestic and imported oil, gasoline terminals import gasoline in addition to domestic supply. Although Canada is a net exporter of gasoline, some imports are required to meet local demand due to differences in regional production. Quebec generally imports the most gasoline, much of which is subsequently shipped to Ontario. The Atlantic Provinces and British Columbia are the next largest importers of gasoline. The Yukon occasionally imports gasoline from Alaska. The European Union (E.U.) and the U.S. are both large sources of these imports. In 2017, the E.U. exported 5.0 billion litres to Canada, and the U.S. Energy Information Administration reported 1.2 billion litres of finished motor gasoline exports to Canada.

 

https://www.rec-cer.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-commodities/crude-oil-petroleum-products/report/2019-gasoline/index.html

Interesting link. Their speaking metric which means little to me. According to the link 1.2 billion litres of gas is imported which is 3.8% of total consumption. Most in the east. Is there pipe running gas back into BC from Washington State? In the old days independents would import gasoline into Washington State and blend it with domestic. Most refiners move from California so Pacific Northwest refineries were barging gasoline to Cali.

 

Another interesting aspect of the industry is that not all crudes are created equal. Some refineries are more efficient processing certain types of crudes and build markets to sell unique by products they get from the refining process. Yup, Quaker State motor oil comes from Pennsylvania crude. It is a very complex industry.