Ryan Miller finally 100%, ready for season (NHL.com article)

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

sometimes you just need a change in net to spark the boys

light a fire under they're asses you know

lack is good but miller is proven

change of tactics for the other team

like lou in boston

sometimes a team just has your number

In the playoffs when it's one and done the guys don't need a spark! If they can't get up for every game then you have the wrong players in the room. My tactic would be to play my best goalie. Which I'd argue is Lack. Miller is more proven in the past, but recent failures in St. Louis playoffs are maybe a better sample of predicting playoff performance.

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

I give you credit for having faith in Lack, because I had absolutely none. He was nervous from the first interview, and you could see it during ice with his body language.

Enough with this "stats were better". Miller was a starter, played way more games, and unlike Lack, was not able to finish games he played poorly in. Miller's stats were reduced to the game against the Oilers and his injury game. That brought his save % from .918 to .913 and .911 respectively.

Miller makes BIG saves. I have yet to see consistency from Lack. People like to trash Miller "he played weak teams" - well at least he beat them. I distinctly remember Lack losing two straight to Arizona and Toronto (maybe) - he was very hot and cold. Not to mention the team played better (unquestionably) with the leader in net.

I get people love Lack.. I sincerely just don't understand the logic. Did so many people really prefer Lack? Off of skill?

I watched every game. Miller was way more hot and cold. Hence the 6 shutouts. And the number of times he was pulled. I would argue that they left Lack in more games that the team was poor in front of him in order to ensure rest for Miller. Where Miller would be mercifully pulled to rest him for the next game. Wouldn't this lead to better stats for Miller and worse for Lack if he is left in on the nights the team in front of him were playing like crap???? I liked Lack not due to his personality, but from the games I watched all year. You have to agree that there was no way we make the playoffs without Lack in the final 15 games when LA kept winning as well. Lack played awesome. My opinion! We shall see what happens this year?

[RWMc1]

When Luongo finally accepted that he couldn't keep playing as many games as he was used to, he improved and regained his form. Miller is in a similar position and needs to lessen his workload if he wants to make it through the season and still be relatively fresh for the Playoffs. That means we need to put some faith in Markstrom.

[Sedin Brothers]

Wouldn't this lead to better stats for Miller and worse for Lack if he is left in on the nights the team in front of him were playing like crap????

Nope. Hence Lack's 88% SP in the playoffs off of being pulled one game.

[BoScorvat]

When Luongo finally accepted that he couldn't keep playing as many games as he was used to, he improved and regained his form. Miller is in a similar position and needs to lessen his workload if he wants to make it through the season and still be relatively fresh for the Playoffs. That means we need to put some faith in Markstrom.

Some of luongos worst years were when he didn't play that many games. Last year he played 61 games and had a .921 sv % on a average team at best.

[RWMc1]

Some of luongos worst years were when he didn't play that many games. Last year he played 61 games and had a .921 sv % on a average team at best.

Luongo was playing 70 plus games. As he got older that became too much. Miller ain't no spring chicken. He needs to play less games. I know that his injury was a freak accident by one of our own players(Hansen). As you age, recovery takes longer and injuries are more likely. I stand by my opinion!

[5 decades and no cup]

In the playoffs when it's one and done the guys don't need a spark! If they can't get up for every game then you have the wrong players in the room. My tactic would be to play my best goalie. Which I'd argue is Lack. Miller is more proven in the past, but recent failures in St. Louis playoffs are maybe a better sample of predicting playoff performance.

During the 13/14 season, Miller was a 9.23 while playing on a horrible Buffalo team. He suddenly gets traded late in the season and drops to a 9.03 playing for St. Louis. It's well known that goaltenders and dmen often struggle when they move to a new team. It takes time to get used to the new system and so on.

[Crabcakes]

I wonder if we should be worried once Miller's contract is up. Can Markstrom take the next step?

Benning makes the decisions on player personnel. But I think that he discusses things with his management team and gets their opinion before making the final decisions.

In other words, all the coaches from Melanson to Green to Dejardins to Linden all had their say and they agreed that Markstrom had more upside.

We'll find out if it was the right decision.

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

I'm tired of Miller being crammed down my throat. It was a bad signing.

[JAY JAY]

I'm tired of Miller being crammed down my throat. It was a bad signing.

WTF! Someones opinion that differs from your own is tough to swallow I'm sure, however it is just that, their opinion.

Your Lack love is admirable though.

[GB5]

I'm tired of Miller being crammed down my throat. It was a bad signing.

was not!!!

The only people I know that think Lack is a franchise goalie that should have been worth a first are Oiler and Leaf fans....

[HarryCanuck]

Why the F did he play in the playoffs? Did management really have that little confidence in Lack?

If I remember correctly Lack was down 3-1 in the series when they took him out

[Me_]

Yah, good for Miller, wished he was starting his season in San Jose (back with his family) and there was an article about how Lack was excited to start the season as starter.

Just can't resist can you. It's stronger than your will isn't it. You absolutely have to sh!t on the local goalie.

Your passive aggressiveness isn't hiding your idiocy.

[Me_]

I'm tired of Miller being crammed down my throat. It was a bad signing.

And I'm tired of local goalie bashing. It serves absolutely no purpose.

Carolina needs fans. Check into it.

[BlackRedYellow]

And I'm tired of local goalie bashing. It serves absolutely no purpose.

Carolina needs fans. Check into it.

Couldn't agree more!!

Besides... The save % is NOT the correct stat to draw any conclusion upon who was the better goalie. Miller had far better win % and THAT's the stat I'd like to go for. I rather win games, than get a nice lipstick stat as save %, and a loss...

[Green Building]

Umnnnn....the question was "Did management really have that little confidence in Lack?"

Yes! Hence why they traded Lack - in the off season in case you didn't understand.

Did you even have lunch today?

You answered his question from the present tense when his was asked of the state of mind management (or just WD) held at the time.

So yeah, I understood it just fine that you answered the question with the wrong timeframe in mind.

For your information, I did not have lunch, nor did I eat the 6 meals prior to it. I'm looking forward to food again.

[Heretic]

You answered his question from the present tense when his was asked of the state of mind management (or just WD) held at the time.

So yeah, I understood it just fine that you answered the question with the wrong timeframe in mind.

For your information, I did not have lunch, nor did I eat the 6 meals prior to it. I'm looking forward to food again.

[tyhee]

...

Besides... The save % is NOT the correct stat to draw any conclusion upon who was the better goalie. Miller had far better win % and THAT's the stat I'd like to go for. I rather win games, than get a nice lipstick stat as save %, and a loss...

I have no desire to get into Lack v Miller again on a Ryan Miller thread-Lack is gone and any such discussion really belongs in a thread discussing moves by management.

However, it doesn't make any sense to suggest that number of wins (or winning %) is a better goalie statistic than save % (or GAA, for that matter.) No goalie stat is perfect, but # wins and winning % are simply horrible if used as goalie stats.

The first problem with wins is that it is of course a team stat rather than an individual one. The easiest example of that is that obviously goalies have almost no effect on goals for.

If one team gets more wins than another in a season, does that mean that their 3rd line RW is better than another team's 3rd line RW? How about 2nd pairing left defence?

Granted, a goalie has a larger part to play than individual skaters, but wins measure a team result, not an individual one.

A second problem with wins is that it is a statistic with a very small sample size, which makes it more prone to variation for luck.

To illustrate this, consider a situation where two teams play 60 times-or roughly the same number of times a busy solid starter will start in an NHL regular season. Consider that team A is slightly better and would win 52% of an infinite number of games played by the two teams while Team B would win 48% of the time if the number of games were infinite.

Over 60 games the expected result (see method in note at bottom) is:

Team A wins more often about 57% of the time

Team B wins more often about 33% of the time

They each win 30 games about 10% of the time.

It's easy to see that 60 isn't a large enough sample to have great confidence that the better team will win more often when the teams are close. The better team wins more games only 57% of the time. The worse team wins more about 1/3 of the time.

One demonstration of wins as a goalie ranking is to rank Carey Price, Henrik Lundqvist and Anti Niemi as goalies in the 2013-14 season. Niemi had the most wins and the highest win% of the 3. Surely nobody out there is crazy enough to believe that Niemi was the best goalie of the 3.

Save % is also not a perfect statistic. While it is an individual statistic, it is affected by quality of shots the team gives up. The obvious example of that is a team that gives up a higher than usual number of shots from long range and a lower than normal number of shots from the slot.

Save % can be skewed by superior or inferior rebound control or puck handling by the goalie, so it doesn't do a perfect job in measuring things that the goalie does to increase or reduce the number of shots or quality shots.

There are other ways in which save % is imperfect. There is no perfect goalie statistic.

On the other hand, save % and GAA, are far, far better as goalie statistics than # of wins, which isn't a goalie stat at all.

Note: To do the wins calculation over 60 games I set up a spreadsheet with the formula for each # of wins for the better team using the formula 60!/(w!(60-w!)) * .52^w * .48^(60-w) where the number of expected wins for the better team =w, then did a sum on w=1 to 29 and another on w=31 to 60.

[Me_]

I have no desire to get into Lack v Miller again on a Ryan Miller thread-Lack is gone and any such discussion really belongs in a thread discussing moves by management.

However, it doesn't make any sense to suggest that number of wins (or winning %) is a better goalie statistic than save % (or GAA, for that matter.) No goalie stat is perfect, but # wins and winning % are simply horrible if used as goalie stats.

The first problem with wins is that it is of course a team stat rather than an individual one. The easiest example of that is that obviously goalies have almost no effect on goals for.

If one team gets more wins than another in a season, does that mean that their 3rd line RW is better than another team's 3rd line RW? How about 2nd pairing left defence?

Granted, a goalie has a larger part to play than individual skaters, but wins measure a team result, not an individual one.

A second problem with wins is that it is a statistic with a very small sample size, which makes it more prone to variation for luck.

To illustrate this, consider a situation where two teams play 60 times-or roughly the same number of times a busy solid starter will start in an NHL regular season. Consider that team A is slightly better and would win 52% of an infinite number of games played by the two teams while Team B would win 48% of the time if the number of games were infinite.

Over 60 games the expected result (see method in note at bottom) is:

Team A wins more often about 57% of the time

Team B wins more often about 33% of the time

They each win 30 games about 10% of the time.

It's easy to see that 60 isn't a large enough sample to have great confidence that the better team will win more often when the teams are close. The better team wins more games only 57% of the time. The worse team wins more about 1/3 of the time.

One demonstration of wins as a goalie ranking is to rank Carey Price, Henrik Lundqvist and Anti Niemi as goalies in the 2013-14 season. Niemi had the most wins and the highest win% of the 3. Surely nobody out there is crazy enough to believe that Niemi was the best goalie of the 3.

Save % is also not a perfect statistic. While it is an individual statistic, it is affected by quality of shots the team gives up. The obvious example of that is a team that gives up a higher than usual number of shots from long range and a lower than normal number of shots from the slot.

Save % can be skewed by superior or inferior rebound control or puck handling by the goalie, so it doesn't do a perfect job in measuring things that the goalie does to increase or reduce the number of shots or quality shots.

There are other ways in which save % is imperfect. There is no perfect goalie statistic.

On the other hand, save % and GAA, are far, far better as goalie statistics than # of wins, which isn't a goalie stat at all.

Note: To do the wins calculation over 60 games I set up a spreadsheet with the formula for each # of wins for the better team using the formula 60!/(w!(60-w!)) * .52^w * .48^(60-w) where the number of expected wins for the better team =w, then did a sum on w=1 to 29 and another on w=31 to 60.

Um... Win % counts far more than any stat anyone can pull out.

Whether a team wins 1-0 or 8-7, the W is the most important. Any player in the league will tell you that. That is what ultimately wins regular season games, playoff games and Stanley Cups.

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

I'm hoping he plays lights out until tweaking something in Dec. that allows Markstrom 2-3 weeks of starts....and he plays lights out.

The rest of the season we play one until he losses and then the other going 6W-1L-5W-1L-3W-1L-4W-1L-7W-1L-you get the idea...