US priests accused of sex abuse get a second chance by relocating to South America

[Mr. Ambien]

The problem is, in substantially more cases than not, relocated pedophile priests do 'do it again'. And when they do, they don't just do it once - they 'do it again and again'...leaving a trail of destruction and betrayal.

Statistics suggest that in all likelihood, each of the priests already has multiple victims in their new location. But, just like their previous cases, these often take years to come out in the open.

So, your suggestion that these situations are in any way OK is either flat-out ignorance, or cruelty of the worst kind.

lolol

Why are you responding to me like I'm making his argument? I'm simply dismissing how his post is being blown way, way, way, way out of proportion, to the point where not only can you not read correctly, but now you're accusing people who disagree with him yet can read (and don't flip out over one sentence without reading the rest) of being okay with molesting children.

lol.

[Tortorella's Rant]

Priests fondling boys. Gods plan.

[Mr. Ambien]

Priests fondling boys. Gods plan.

God obviously doesn't like boys (or infants).. or fish, or frogs, or marine life in general. You see how they get treated in the bible? Bunch of sinners.

[TheRussianRocket.]

This is how the church has dealt with it, according to scripture, leading me to believe they've changed and now they've been given a new life somewhere else.

I get that but doesn't the scripture also say not to molest kids? Priest is the one who should be spreading the word and he knows that.

Like I said before, he's probably told others that don't do x,y,x because according to the book, it's a sin and yet here he is beating around the bush, going back on the word of the book which he's preached and ruined ones life. Heck I say a double standard should be put because he knowingly committed the act as a "priest" and his punishment should be much more severe.

...anyways, happens often in and it is well documented. Sad. These "priests" that do it are lowest of the low and don't deserve to be let go scot free.

[thejazz97]

Is the point being deliberately missed that another innocent child (children) is going to have to be the 'sacrifice' and be sexually assaulted by the time this priest screws up his second chance and should then be dealt with 'accordingly'? People are going to knowingly and deliberately put a child at risk of having their life destroyed just so a pedophile priest get's his 'second chance'? If he screws it up, it's too late. There should be no second chance. Is the quality of life of a priest who has already massively 'screwed up' more important than that of an innocent child who is victimized by the 'second chance'?

The recidivism rate of pedophiles is well documented.

If one person doesn't get a second chance, no one should. It's highly elitist otherwise.

You've missed the part where I've said we should have him under surveillance. And the part where I've said it would have to be a mutual decision between the parents and the children to help him and without that there's no way a child is getting near him. And the part where I've said I don't care about the recidivism rate because I believe people are more than a statistic.

Even if we do go by your rate...

Offenders with a prior sexual offence conviction had recidivism rates about double the rate observed for first-time sexual offenders (19% versus 37% after 15 years). Age also had a substantial association with recidivism, with offenders older than age 50 at release reoffending at half the rate of the younger (less than 50) offenders (12% versus 26%, respectively, after 15 years). As expected, those who have remained offence free in the community were at reduced risk for subsequent sexual recidivism. Whereas the average 10 year recidivism rate from time of release was 20%, the 10 year recidivism declined to 12% after five years offence-free and to 9% after 10 years offence-free. The five year recidivism rate for those who had been offence-free for 15 years was 4%. Offence-free was defined as no new sexual or violent non-sexual offence, and no non-violent offences serious enough that they are incarcerated at the end of the follow-up period. http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/sx-ffndr-rcdvsm/index-eng.aspx#a04

As terrible as 19% recidivism is, there's a whole 81% of first-time sex offenders that you're refusing to see that don't go touching kids inappropriately again.

They need to be slowly trusted again. Perhaps not in a role where they're dealing with kids unsupervised, but their spirits need to be rebuilt.

[thejazz97]

I get that but doesn't the scripture also say not to molest kids? Priest is the one who should be spreading the word and he knows that.

Like I said before, he's probably told others that don't do x,y,x because according to the book, it's a sin and yet here he is beating around the bush, going back on the word of the book which he's preached and ruined ones life. Heck I say a double standard should be put because he knowingly committed the act as a "priest" and his punishment should be much more severe.

...anyways, happens often in and it is well documented. Sad. These "priests" that do it are lowest of the low and don't deserve to be let go scot free.

Yes. But most if not all Christians still fall from following their faith the right way now and again, even me.

We've learned not to judge just because someone sins differently than us, but instead help each other to recognize our faults and get back up into a place where we can get back into a right relationship with God ASAP.

[Cerridwen]

Yes. But most if not all Christians still fall from following their faith the right way now and again, even me.

We've learned not to judge just because someone sins differently than us, but instead help each other to recognize our faults and get back up into a place where we can get back into a right relationship with God ASAP.

So all sins are created and measured equally? Good to know. Personally, I think wanking one off doesn't quite equate to the egregiousness of raping or sodomizing a child but that's just me......

[Mr. Ambien]

If one person doesn't get a second chance, no one should. It's highly elitist otherwise.

You've missed the part where I've said we should have him under surveillance. And the part where I've said it would have to be a mutual decision between the parents and the children to help him and without that there's no way a child is getting near him. And the part where I've said I don't care about the recidivism rate because I believe people are more than a statistic.

Even if we do go by your rate...

As terrible as 19% recidivism is, there's a whole 81% of first-time sex offenders that you're refusing to see that don't go touching kids inappropriately again.

They need to be slowly trusted again. Perhaps not in a role where they're dealing with kids unsupervised, but their spirits need to be rebuilt.

I'm not sure if you expanded on the "second chance" thing, but I presume you mean not thrown in jail forever, rather than not charged with a crime?

Since this largely meaningless facet of an opinion has been blown so out of proportion, it's good to get more context.

[Alflives]

Yes. But most if not all Christians still fall from following their faith the right way now and again, even me.

We've learned not to judge just because someone sins differently than us, but instead help each other to recognize our faults and get back up into a place where we can get back into a right relationship with God ASAP.

These men molested, even raped, little boys. Even Christians, who believe we should turn the other cheek, know we must pay consequences for our actions in this life, and in the next life. Some will escape judgement in this life, but there is one judge they cannot escape.

[thejazz97]

Jazz

I'm your family priest. You entrust me with your 8 year old son.

I rape molest and sodomize him mercilessly and then threaten him with eternal damnation of him and his families mortal souls if he tells you about it.

I look you in the eye every day and tell you how you should be a better person if you want into gods house as I take your weekly donation to charity

Then I rape your son again the second I have a chance.

Do I in essence a second chance to do the EXACT same thing where there is virtually no chance I'll ever be caught?

I'll await your answer over here in the "molesting children is wrong crowd"

This is a bad example to give me, imma screw it up I think...

First of all, I don't have a priest. I'm not Catholic.

Second, I've already been planning to teach my kids to tell me anything they need to no matter the threat.

Third, I've got Jesus to let me know if anything is going on and to protect my family as well.

Fourth, I already know that I've got a place in heaven and I only give to places I know I can trust. See my third point for how I know I can trust a church or charity.

Fifth, you don't deserve a second chance. I'll never hate you but I'll have hated what you've done forever. It's disgusting.

Sixth, when I do find out, I'd do what Jesus said to do in the quote I've quoted earlier.

Seventh, I'd go find a new church ASAP.

You don't have to wait, I'm in the exact same crowd with you.

[thejazz97]

These men molested, even raped, little boys. Even Christians, who believe we should turn the other cheek, know we must pay consequences for our actions in this life, and in the next life. Some will escape judgement in this life, but there is one judge they cannot escape.

Yes. If they don't make their hearts right, they're gonna get everything they deserve - and more.

[thejazz97]

I'm not sure if you expanded on the "second chance" thing, but I presume you mean not thrown in jail forever, rather than not charged with a crime?

Since this largely meaningless facet of an opinion has been blown so out of proportion, it's good to get more context.

They need a chance to be trusted again. Whether they get thrown in jail for a time or are protected and given a second chance by their community, they need a second chance. Do they deserve it? No. Will most people be ready to give them that chance/trust? No.

But it's something that should happen for the good of the community. If it doesn't, it's not like anything is out of order if he doesn't get a second chance.

[thejazz97]

So all sins are created and measured equally? Good to know. Personally, I think wanking on off doesn't quite equate to the egregiousness of raping or sodomizing a child but that's just me......

It only does if you're doing it out of lust, but each one has its own way of being bad in God's eyes.

Btw, sins aren't created, never were. They're good things that have been twisted.

[TheRussianRocket.]

Exactly the reason I hate religion It's when people fall too deep and think everything can be fine if you use God.

Third, I've got Jesus to let me know if anything is going on and to protect my family as well.

How do you know this? Blind faith. God/Jesus may just be sitting up in the clouds wherever he is and laughing at all the religious people thinking how lost they are and how badly they've twisted his words. Your son is getting fracked by the priest and turns out your son never has it in him to confess to anyone. Where is Jesus then telling you something is wrong protecting your family?

Fourth, I already know that I've got a place in heaven and I only give to places I know I can trust. See my third point for how I know I can trust a church or charity.

No you don't. For all you know God is drinking a bottle of Jack Daniels and laughing at the ignorance of people assuming this. He's letting his play unfold and before you know it, you're in hell.

...don't get me wrong, I believe in a "God" but completely different to what most do/follow. I just think it's wrong being so blinded by religion.

[ManUtd]

If one person doesn't get a second chance, no one should. It's highly elitist otherwise.

You've missed the part where I've said we should have him under surveillance. And the part where I've said it would have to be a mutual decision between the parents and the children to help him and without that there's no way a child is getting near him. And the part where I've said I don't care about the recidivism rate because I believe people are more than a statistic.

Even if we do go by your rate...

As terrible as 19% recidivism is, there's a whole 81% of first-time sex offenders that you're refusing to see that don't go touching kids inappropriately again.

They need to be slowly trusted again. Perhaps not in a role where they're dealing with kids unsupervised, but their spirits need to be rebuilt.

You can't draw that conclusion from the data at all. The statistic is that 81% are never again charged/convicted. That does not at all mean they don't repeat their behaviours. Just that they didn't get caught. There's no way of knowing how many of them actually continue to harm children but given the underreported nature of sex offences chances are that it's much higher than merely the amount that are getting caught a second time.

[Realtor Rod]

I think prison, where they could be sexually assaulted, is the first step in giving them a second chance.

[Mr. Ambien]

They need a chance to be trusted again. Whether they get thrown in jail for a time or are protected and given a second chance by their community, they need a second chance. Do they deserve it? No. Will most people be ready to give them that chance/trust? No.

But it's something that should happen for the good of the community. If it doesn't, it's not like anything is out of order if he doesn't get a second chance.

Seems fair. They are indeed thrown in jail, but it's extremely rare that they get sent to jail for "life". So, there's a second chance. Everyone deserves a second chance in that regard, but as a parent, if someone did that to my child, I can't say it would be me giving it to them. There's a sex offender in my in-laws who did something to my wife when she was a child, and she's stayed quiet about it so as not to "destroy her family". It's not my place to rock the boat, but I told the guy while my wife is forgiving, under no circumstances is he ever to be in a room alone with my children, and if I catch him, he may not live to tell about it. In that regard, I have no remorse for these people. The justice system doesn't need to be like me though.

[Alflives]

Yes. If they don't make their hearts right, they're gonna get everything they deserve - and more.

I must say, I greatly enjoy the intelligent dialogue. Thank you:)

I greatly disagree with your interpretation of Christian teaching. These men can make every effort to "make their hearts right", but part of that process is to admit to their crimes, and pay consequences during their mortal lives. "We are guilty of our crimes, and deserve this punishment." To avoid consequence in this life, as they are clearly doing, will cause their immortal souls to exist knowing the agony they have caused others (in this life) for iternity. This life is only a spark in the existence of the eternal flame.

[thejazz97]

I must say, I greatly enjoy the intelligent dialogue. Thank you:)

I greatly disagree with your interpretation of Christian teaching. These men can make every effort to "make their hearts right", but part of that process is to admit to their crimes, and pay consequences during their mortal lives. "We are guilty of our crimes, and deserve this punishment." To avoid consequence in this life, as they are clearly doing, will cause their immortal souls to exist knowing the agony they have caused others (in this life) for iternity. This life is only a spark in the existence of the eternal flame.

Yes, very much so. Repentance and/or forgiveness are things that I've failed to bring up in this conversation. Guilt is a killer too, I've felt that in my own life.

I just know I'd get blasted for making a big scene about it in here though

[Alflives]

Yes, very much so. Repentance and/or forgiveness are things that I've failed to bring up in this conversation. Guilt is a killer too, I've felt that in my own life.

I just know I'd get blasted for making a big scene about it in here though

Yes, I agree. Deep feelings of guilt would become a hell on earth. We all need to pay for our crimes in this life, so our eternal souls do not pay for them in the next.