BBB?

[Kakanucks]

BBB........Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo

After reading Canucks Talk lately.

[Positive Canuck]

#InBenningWeTrust

jim is going to build us a beauty.

His team won't get bullied either.

[Salmonberries]

Fair enough, Jazz. However, keep hearing of teams that carry 10 or 11 picks in a single draft. 2014/15/16, I felt we needed to aim for that approach.

Couldn't agree more; the main criticism I have of Benning is that he's a pick seller in a phase when he should be adding picks.

And he sells too cheaply.

[Salmonberries]

But then, no GM working under Aqua has ever stockpiled picks, so...the likelihood is that it cannot be done.

[austy]

^{I just feel we already had a better player in Vey with Horvat, but at the time, Benning couldn't see what he had in Horvat. But I also realy like how vey plays the game, but I just don't think he was the right guy for the canucks at this time. Maybe we could have had sanotrelli, or sbotka or something. But then I like the bare-cheese trade, so I cant have it both ways I guess.}

[Patchoball Cannons]

Benning's Biggest Blunder? Thus far, that is.

For me, probably squandering a 2nd on Vey. He's frittered away a few picks, & we should be taking the 'shotgun-approach' on drafting young D. Would have been far better last yr to retain Santo & Schreds(hustling RH C's), thus using another selection on the back end. Try to find more Subban/Hutton's. Them 2 guys(Santo, Schredder) likely play 'bigger' than LV. We only needed a short bridge to our slew of emerging C's...

Sbisa contract? Has certainly garnered it's fair share of detractors. Sure don't like the stage this sets for future RFA negotiations. Hopefully this comparable is never used (file 13).

Kassian deal. Hard to believe it's the best we could obtain(he'll take the 5th, as well)

Lack return. Don't like it, compared with what other young 'tenders garnered. If Markstrom doesn't bail out Benning here, this one could get ugly in a big way.

A CDC sig used to quote: "It's easier to be critical, than correct." Which is pretty hard wisdom to deny. Could also be that setbacks occur(seemingly) more rapidly than payoffs come to fruition. With this in mind, some of JB's moves may positively outweigh the duds,(or some negatives noted here, reverse), thus, it's too early to judge, definitively..one way or the other.

In the end, it's a forum-all voices, enthusiastic, endorsing, or dissenting, should be able to stake a claim...

I feel something needs to be said to address all the detractors of Bennings moves. First off lets get to the Eddie Lack deal. I would love to see what you would've been able to secure for Eddie Lack, bear in mind teams don't pay more for nice guys, or for people who are clever on twitter. Gm's rely on body of work and on pedigree. Lack was always a back up to Markstrom coming out of Sweden and last year marked the only time in their careers that Lack sat above Markstrom on a depth chart. Markstrom was the top goaltending prospect in the world a few years back and was unfortunately for him drafted by a team that has no clue on how to develop a goalie. They did not have a full time goalie coach to work with him, tried to rush him into the league with aterrible team infront of him and he failed. Conversely The Canucks have a great track record of developing goalies, and Markstrom getting a chance to work with two of the best in Rollie the goalie and Dan Cloutier has seen him get back on track with his development and could be a top 10 goalie in this league given a couple more years as an understudy to Ryan Miller.

As far as Vey is concerned he traded a late second round pick for a player that had proven himself at the pro level and was not going to get a chance with the team he was with. Late second round picks have a 50/50 chance statistically of being regular players at the NHL level, after 1 year in the big leagues your ready to write off Vey, seems a little early.

Nobody likes the Sbisa contract. It would be too high 5 years ago, but take a look at what other teams are paying Dmen and you quickly realise it's market value for 5-6th D men. With Sbisa pedigree (1st round pick) he is worth the risk of developing another player who was rushed into the league too early. He is only 25, skates well and is the most physical member of our D corps. Again I'll rely on a franchise that has proven it's ability to develop D men over all of the detractors. It will be a fantastic contract if he is able to become a 4th Dman on this team.

Kassian was traded for a proven leader at the NHL level, who shows young guys how to be a pro, not how to drink at 11 AM, and sniff blow at 11 PM. Seems like a good move considering we have the deepest prospect pool since coach V took over, and the last thing we need is our young talent following his lead.

We have to give time to see how things actually play out, but judging on how Benning has used his knowledge to place a few bets that Marksrtom,Vey,Sbisa and Prust will help this team moving forward more than Lack, Kassian, and a late second round pick will, I have full confidence in the man and none in all the detractors that seem to think they can run a team better with all of their wealth of experience in doing so.

[JoshuaGuy]

I feel something needs to be said to address all the detractors of Bennings moves. First off lets get to the Eddie Lack deal. I would love to see what you would've been able to secure for Eddie Lack, bear in mind teams don't pay more for nice guys, or for people who are clever on twitter. Gm's rely on body of work and on pedigree. Lack was always a back up to Markstrom coming out of Sweden and last year marked the only time in their careers that Lack sat above Markstrom on a depth chart. Markstrom was the top goaltending prospect in the world a few years back and was unfortunately for him drafted by a team that has no clue on how to develop a goalie. They did not have a full time goalie coach to work with him, tried to rush him into the league with aterrible team infront of him and he failed. Conversely The Canucks have a great track record of developing goalies, and Markstrom getting a chance to work with two of the best in Rollie the goalie and Dan Cloutier has seen him get back on track with his development and could be a top 10 goalie in this league given a couple more years as an understudy to Ryan Miller.

As far as Vey is concerned he traded a late second round pick for a player that had proven himself at the pro level and was not going to get a chance with the team he was with. Late second round picks have a 50/50 chance statistically of being regular players at the NHL level, after 1 year in the big leagues your ready to write off Vey, seems a little early.

Nobody likes the Sbisa contract. It would be too high 5 years ago, but take a look at what other teams are paying Dmen and you quickly realise it's market value for 5-6th D men. With Sbisa pedigree (1st round pick) he is worth the risk of developing another player who was rushed into the league too early. He is only 25, skates well and is the most physical member of our D corps. Again I'll rely on a franchise that has proven it's ability to develop D men over all of the detractors. It will be a fantastic contract if he is able to become a 4th Dman on this team.

Kassian was traded for a proven leader at the NHL level, who shows young guys how to be a pro, not how to drink at 11 AM, and sniff blow at 11 PM. Seems like a good move considering we have the deepest prospect pool since coach V took over, and the last thing we need is our young talent following his lead.

We have to give time to see how things actually play out, but judging on how Benning has used his knowledge to place a few bets that Marksrtom,Vey,Sbisa and Prust will help this team moving forward more than Lack, Kassian, and a late second round pick will, I have full confidence in the man and none in all the detractors that seem to think they can run a team better with all of their wealth of experience in doing so.

Well said.

[bobby-b]

Now lets see... Are you talking about before he took the GM job of a team that was in need of a drastic change for years previously?

Or...

How he made enough changes to make that same sorry ass team make the playoffs after he took that job, last year?

Or...

Are you talking about the changes he's making presently that makes you wish you knew a tenth as much as he does???

[therodigy]

The Kesler + 2015 3rd trade got us Bonino, Sbisa, McCann and a 2014 3rd.

With that third we acquired Dorsett.

JB traded Garrison + a 7th for a 2nd.

With the 2nd we acquired Vey, and with the free cap space we got Vrbata.

JB also signed Miller for 6x3.

JB traded Forsling for Clendening.

2015 2nd for Baertschi.

Lack was traded for a 2015 3rd and a 2016 7th. The 3rd got us Brisebois.

Kassian + 2016 5th was traded for Prust.

Bieksa for a 2016 2nd

Finally, he traded Bonino, Clendenning, and that 2nd for Sutter and 3rd.

I liked the Kesler trade at the time, and if McCann continues to progress, it'll be even better. Sbisa can hit and skate, and has something there. He just needs to improve on his awareness and passing.

Dorsett has proven to be reliable. I'm happy with the trade.

Vey was a gamble. It was the right idea, but it's just not panning as well as we'd hoped. He has a year to prove us wrong.

Miss Garrison's shot, but JB addressed a need with Vrbata, and am happy with that.

I'm super excited for Baertschi. I'm excited to see what he can bring. Another gamble worth taking.

Going to miss Lack, but upon watching some old games, I'm hAppy we have Miller and Markstrom as our tandem. Markstrom is the better goaltender, stats aside. Plus Brisebois looks like he could be very good in a few years.

Didn't like the Bieksa trade, but only because I'm biased. I thought he retrieved the right price.

Good riddance to Kassian. Didn't like the 5th sweetener though.

The Sutter trade, imo, is indicative of the culture change that is happening. I'm not sure whether Sutter is better than Bonino, but it's definitely a bit of a hefty price, considering the pick swap and the addition of Clendenning. Thankfully I want a huge fan of Clendenning. Sure he could pass a puck, but I thought he wasn't as mobile as I thought he should be.

As far as trades, I'm fine with what JB has done. However, I'm more concerned about his contract signings. I read an article where they tried to find the worst contract on each team, and they said Tanev was the worst on the Canucks. I greatly disagree, of course, as I feel he earned it, and was surprised it wasn't Sbisa or Miller. 3.6 isn't bad for Sbisa considering how much Luke Schenn, Andrew MacDonald, or Brook Orpik make, but was hoping he'd be signed for a bit less on a shorter term. Miller's contract raises some questions. Would CDC be less vocal if Miller was making 5 or 5.5, or I'd he only had 2 years?

[Nuxfanabroad]

@Patchball, Thanks, that was a comprehensive, well-stated reply. I'd prefer your insight turns out far closer to the mark, than my initial post does.

On the biggest disappointment that I'd listed. I'll say now that kid seems to have a solid & humble character. I'd love him to prove my post as ROTFL! Hope the doubters/detractors motivate him to his very highest level. Based on what he's done, there's certainly that possibility, at this point.

Don't keep up on the off-ice scuttlebutt, myself. But if even half of what you've posted on Kassquatch is true, then the deal is understandable. Tough situation, as these things cannot be publicly aired.

Like many diehards here, you get attached to certain fan-favs. Lack was one such personality, that I was sorry to see go. When looking at Markstrom's brilliant run, this is a numbers game with no simple solution. On the bright side, all can agree it's great he didn't get nabbed on waivers, last fall(still find this surprising).

The 'hot seat' exists for a few key, young players. Stating it plainly, doesn't make one a poor, disloyal fan. Back in the day, it seems the terms 'healthy' & 'skepticism' accompanied each other more easily.

[DownUndaCanuck]

To be fair I think it's hard to judge him yet because he's working in a 3 year plan window sort of thing, but I don't agree with a few of his moves yet (we'll see if they pan out). He's building a toughness-first sort of team similar to the Bruins which I'm not sure will work in a more offensive NHL these days. We just saw the Tampa Bay Lightning and Blackhawks duke it out as the two most offensive teams in the SCF last season, the way of the tough defensive teams is no more - Cup champions these days need to be able to have offensive depth up front, score 3-4 goals a night and have a star defensive pairing with no real need for that #1 goalie.

I haven't been to pleased with Benning's work at our wings and defence. Goalie and center-wise, he's done fantastically. We have some brilliant two-way centers which is what you need in today's NHL to win in the playoffs. Gaunce, Horvat, Sutter, McCann and Cassels are all fantastic defensive centers who compare to Toews/Kopitar/Sharp etc. and they've shown that you need to play good defence and score clutch goals to win in the playoffs.

At wing, Benning has really shaken things up and I'm not sure if I agree. He had some brilliant 1st round picks and spent them on Virtanen and Boeser, two very similar players, while grabbing Baertschi (I liked this trade) and moving Kassian (not a fan of this move). While we did need some offensive flair on the wing with Jensen and Shinkaruk not really impressing, I don't think using our 6th overall pick for one was a good idea - we can find a physical 20 goal scorer just about anywhere through trades or UFA. A pick that high should have been spent on a future 1st line center like Nylander OR a future top pairing defenceman. Expectations should be 30 goals + physical play from Virtanen for being picked that high, because to be honest I think he would have gone around 10th-11th if Benning didn't take him.

Defence has been the biggest issue for Benning so far, which surprises me considering he had built such a fantastic one in Boston. We have Edler and Tanev as a top pairing which would be most Cup contending team's 2nd pairing. Hamhuis is still good for a top-4 defenceman, but that's it. Yannik Weber simply does not belong in the NHL and would be a 7th defenceman for most playoff teams, instead he's our 4th best guy for some bizarre reason and Benning has not addressed this! Our bottom pairing is surprisingly good now with Bartkowski's addition which I quite like, but he is a 5th or 6th defenceman at the very best.

Benning's biggest mistake was getting rid of, and not acquiring, any puck moving defencemen. He trades away Clendening for no good reason which leaves us with essentially 4 shutdown defencemen, 1 overall defenceman in Edler and 1 AHL puck mover in Weber. No one on our current blueline can take a heavy shot on goal and be good for 10+ goals in a season, and no one can make that beautiful stretch pass up the ice. Because of this, the Canucks are going to struggle to score not only on the powerplay without a true PP QB, but also struggle to get the puck out of their zone which will cost them defensively. Their offence is going to become far too one-dimensional (all up front based on the forwards, no defence shot to worry about) and they will struggle to score goals. We only really needed one top-4 puck moving defenceman to play with Hamhuis to have a decent defence and there were options (Franson, Ehrhoff, trade) but Benning sat on his hands where he really should have pressed hard for one.

That being said maybe he's waiting for a big 2016 draft, which I think he is, and that's when we'll judge him properly.

[bobby-b]

The Kesler + 2015 3rd trade got us Bonino, Sbisa, McCann and a 2014 3rd.

With that third we acquired Dorsett.

JB traded Garrison + a 7th for a 2nd.

With the 2nd we acquired Vey, and with the free cap space we got Vrbata.

JB also signed Miller for 6x3.

JB traded Forsling for Clendening.

2015 2nd for Baertschi.

Lack was traded for a 2015 3rd and a 2016 7th. The 3rd got us Brisebois.

Kassian + 2016 5th was traded for Prust.

Bieksa for a 2016 2nd

Finally, he traded Bonino, Clendenning, and that 2nd for Sutter and 3rd.

I liked the Kesler trade at the time, and if McCann continues to progress, it'll be even better. Sbisa can hit and skate, and has something there. He just needs to improve on his awareness and passing.

Dorsett has proven to be reliable. I'm happy with the trade.

Vey was a gamble. It was the right idea, but it's just not panning as well as we'd hoped. He has a year to prove us wrong.

Miss Garrison's shot, but JB addressed a need with Vrbata, and am happy with that.

I'm super excited for Baertschi. I'm excited to see what he can bring. Another gamble worth taking.

Going to miss Lack, but upon watching some old games, I'm hAppy we have Miller and Markstrom as our tandem. Markstrom is the better goaltender, stats aside. Plus Brisebois looks like he could be very good in a few years.

Didn't like the Bieksa trade, but only because I'm biased. I thought he retrieved the right price.

Good riddance to Kassian. Didn't like the 5th sweetener though.

The Sutter trade, imo, is indicative of the culture change that is happening. I'm not sure whether Sutter is better than Bonino, but it's definitely a bit of a hefty price, considering the pick swap and the addition of Clendenning. Thankfully I want a huge fan of Clendenning. Sure he could pass a puck, but I thought he wasn't as mobile as I thought he should be.

As far as trades, I'm fine with what JB has done. However, I'm more concerned about his contract signings. I read an article where they tried to find the worst contract on each team, and they said Tanev was the worst on the Canucks. I greatly disagree, of course, as I feel he earned it, and was surprised it wasn't Sbisa or Miller. 3.6 isn't bad for Sbisa considering how much Luke Schenn, Andrew MacDonald, or Brook Orpik make, but was hoping he'd be signed for a bit less on a shorter term. Miller's contract raises some questions. Would CDC be less vocal if Miller was making 5 or 5.5, or I'd he only had 2 years?

Wow, you're a breath of fresh air, Mate... the Canucks Fan Base just got healthier, Well Written !!!!

[bobby-b]

Up with "DownUndaCanuck" ... you too know your stuff.

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

Benning's Biggest Blunder? Thus far, that is.

For me, probably squandering a 2nd on Vey. He's frittered away a few picks, & we should be taking the 'shotgun-approach' on drafting young D. Would have been far better last yr to retain Santo & Schreds(hustling RH C's), thus using another selection on the back end. Try to find more Subban/Hutton's. Them 2 guys(Santo, Schredder) likely play 'bigger' than LV. We only needed a short bridge to our slew of emerging C's...

Sbisa contract? Has certainly garnered it's fair share of detractors. Sure don't like the stage this sets for future RFA negotiations. Hopefully this comparable is never used (file 13).

Kassian deal. Hard to believe it's the best we could obtain(he'll take the 5th, as well)

Lack return. Don't like it, compared with what other young 'tenders garnered. If Markstrom doesn't bail out Benning here, this one could get ugly in a big way.

A CDC sig used to quote: "It's easier to be critical, than correct." Which is pretty hard wisdom to deny. Could also be that setbacks occur(seemingly) more rapidly than payoffs come to fruition. With this in mind, some of JB's moves may positively outweigh the duds,(or some negatives noted here, reverse), thus, it's too early to judge, definitively..one way or the other.

In the end, it's a forum-all voices, enthusiastic, endorsing, or dissenting, should be able to stake a claim...

If you are talking about the fan reaction, it's a little late.

Wait a minute, did you just say it's too early to judge?

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

Sbisa's deal was really bad. But didn't cost too much.

I would say his biggest blunder so far was how he has handled Miller. He overpaid and gave way too long of a contract (if Miller wouldn't have taken less length then I would have walked). And then not trading him this off season (and publicly saying he could have ). I don't necessarily think Lack was a better goalie than Miller, but he was better at the price point. Paying an average goalie (who was 34) 6 mil per season is just too much. I think the last 6 years (save for Thomas) has shown that you don't need an elite goalie to win a cup - just an average or above average goalie hopefully at a decent price point.

Does this mean that Miller has to be 4 times as good as Lack?

Oh, I forgot the secret formula; you want to keep the bad goalie because you see losing as winning. Kinda makes for some twisted logic at times.

(Oh, and was Lack due for a raise? No...no need to mention that. Maybe they liked him at 1.5 but not at 4?)

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

I would disagree. I would say Quick was an above average and now is closer to average. He plays on a good team it helps his numbers. I think I read somewhere that his backup goalies had a better save percentage than him over the past three seasons. His underlying numbers aren't that good.

Quick isn't elite. Nice. Now we all know that you are a blind dude somewhere.

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

The Road to Hell is paved with intentions of mediocrity?(while espousing supposed meritocracy)

The dumbest thing anyone has ever said?

[baumerman77]

Quick isn't elite. Nice. Now we all know that you are a blind dude somewhere.

Show me some evidence that puts Quick in the elite category. I'm not interested in team stats like cups or wins or gaa.

[StraightFlush]

Are we talking Better Business Bureau or Bare Back Blow......

Anyways......in my experiences, you can only judge a man by what he has accomplished, not by what he hasnt.

This is a terrible thread, terrible first line to a thread, and I very much hope that the intelligent humans breed out...the....lesser...species.....

[KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian]

I feel something needs to be said to address all the detractors of Bennings moves. First off lets get to the Eddie Lack deal. I would love to see what you would've been able to secure for Eddie Lack, bear in mind teams don't pay more for nice guys, or for people who are clever on twitter. Gm's rely on body of work and on pedigree. Lack was always a back up to Markstrom coming out of Sweden and last year marked the only time in their careers that Lack sat above Markstrom on a depth chart. Markstrom was the top goaltending prospect in the world a few years back and was unfortunately for him drafted by a team that has no clue on how to develop a goalie. They did not have a full time goalie coach to work with him, tried to rush him into the league with aterrible team infront of him and he failed. Conversely The Canucks have a great track record of developing goalies, and Markstrom getting a chance to work with two of the best in Rollie the goalie and Dan Cloutier has seen him get back on track with his development and could be a top 10 goalie in this league given a couple more years as an understudy to Ryan Miller.

As far as Vey is concerned he traded a late second round pick for a player that had proven himself at the pro level and was not going to get a chance with the team he was with. Late second round picks have a 50/50 chance statistically of being regular players at the NHL level, after 1 year in the big leagues your ready to write off Vey, seems a little early.

Nobody likes the Sbisa contract. It would be too high 5 years ago, but take a look at what other teams are paying Dmen and you quickly realise it's market value for 5-6th D men. With Sbisa pedigree (1st round pick) he is worth the risk of developing another player who was rushed into the league too early. He is only 25, skates well and is the most physical member of our D corps. Again I'll rely on a franchise that has proven it's ability to develop D men over all of the detractors. It will be a fantastic contract if he is able to become a 4th Dman on this team.

Kassian was traded for a proven leader at the NHL level, who shows young guys how to be a pro, not how to drink at 11 AM, and sniff blow at 11 PM. Seems like a good move considering we have the deepest prospect pool since coach V took over, and the last thing we need is our young talent following his lead.

We have to give time to see how things actually play out, but judging on how Benning has used his knowledge to place a few bets that Marksrtom,Vey,Sbisa and Prust will help this team moving forward more than Lack, Kassian, and a late second round pick will, I have full confidence in the man and none in all the detractors that seem to think they can run a team better with all of their wealth of experience in doing so.

What the hell is all this hockey knowledge and insight? What about the underlying numbers man? What about all the extra fifth rounders? Hockey players off-ice? What? That's not on behindthenet.

Losing is winning.

Coaching is gifting.

We're not getting young enough AND we're not giving PTOs. Wah, wah, wah (I hate you all)