ORLY? US-Trained Syrian Rebels were Joining ISIS with weapons supplied by Washington - Putin

[Salmonberries]

" A truly independent Kurdish state, which hasn't existed in centuries, would put an end to that."

Again, there has never been an independent Kurdish state. The next one will be the first.

[taxi]

^^^

That post is quite a disaster, you'll have to excuse the mess. The Gaunt book is a good read if you're interested. The point is, this "demographic shift" you speak of came about as a result of Anglo Saxon involvement in the area beginning with the presence of British and American missionaries and archaeologists in the 1830's with the main event the Christian genocide of WW1. Operation Iraqi Freedom was just the final act which has brought a final end to the ancient pre Islamic populations and really to all ethnic and religious diversity in the lands. If you're arguing strategic benefit, I can accept that. But don't try to attach a humanitarian motive, it's anything but that.

I disagree. The kind of damage you're talking about was done long ago, and is being finished off by Sunni Arabs and Shiite Persians, who are obliterating ethnic minorities. Saddam Hussein was Arabizing all of Iraq before he fell. Just as pre-islamic societies were wiped out in Afghanistan.

Kurdish militias did participate in Ottoman wars. However there's also no disputing that Kurdish people are native to the land and their historic territories crossed over the northeastern parts of what is now Syria.

And I'll agree that the British and US played a role. However, their motivations were much simpler: oil. To get that oil they turned a blind eye to the Arabs, Persians, and Turks who gobbled the rest up.

[taxi]

" A truly independent Kurdish state, which hasn't existed in centuries, would put an end to that."

Again, there has never been an independent Kurdish state. The next one will be the first.

Wrong the Kurds trace their ancestry to the fiefdoms that existed in the middle ages. It wasn't one large state but a series of about a half a dozen loosely connected fiefdoms with a common language. In other words it was exactly like many current European countries were at the time.

[TheRussianRocket.]

By this point if people don't know or believe isis is an US supported group, I am sorry for those lol.

[Salmonberries]

I disagree. The kind of damage you're talking about was done long ago, and is being finished off by Sunni Arabs and Shiite Persians, who are obliterating ethnic minorities. Saddam Hussein was Arabizing all of Iraq before he fell. Just as pre-islamic societies were wiped out in Afghanistan.

Kurdish militias did participate in Ottoman wars. However there's also no disputing that Kurdish people are native to the land and their historic territories crossed over the northeastern parts of what is now Syria.

And I'll agree that the British and US played a role. However, their motivations were much simpler: oil. To get that oil they turned a blind eye to the Arabs, Persians, and Turks who gobbled the rest up.

Completely false., Saddam was a protector of the Christians; other minorities as well, but especially the Christians. At the time of the invasion of Iraq just twelve years ago the Christian population was more than five times what it is today. It is an indisputable fact that the US invasion marked the dearth knell of the ancient Church Of The East, as well as of all Syro-Mesopotamian Christiamity as I warned anyone who would listen back in 2002 that it most certainly would.

[Salmonberries]

Wrong the Kurds trace their ancestry to the fiefdoms that existed in the middle ages. It wasn't one large state but a series of about a half a dozen loosely connected fiefdoms with a common language. In other words it was exactly like many current European countries were at the time.

The Kurds are ethnic Iranic peoples native to the Zagros and Taurus mountain ranges that first entered Mesopotamia in the aftermath of the destruction of Timur. They began to settle in Upper Mesopotamia in the 16th century, given lands belonging to Christians by the ottoman Turks, at war at the time with the Persian Empire. Today they occupy the homes of dead Semitic/Aramaic Christians whom they butchered for their lands in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. All of their main cities, Kirkuk (Karka da Beit Seluk), Irbil (Arbela), Mardin, Dierbakir (Amida), Urfa (Urhoye- the famous Edessa the first Christian city in the world) were originally founded, developed and populated by Assyrian Christians.. In the Hakkari mountains the Kurds currently use the ancient Nestorian churches to house their livestock., Some of these, like Mar Zaia of Jiluwaye, date back to the third century . They speak numerous Iranic languages like Kurmanji and Sorani, Zaza speakers for example, do not, in most cases even consider themselves ethnic Kurds.

[Salmonberries]

The great Syriac Orthodox polymath Gregory Bar Hebraeus' thirteenth century world history, the Chronography, makes no mention of Kurds. A fascinating read, it contains Bar Hebraeus' own eye witness account of the coming of the Mongol hordes.

http://rbedrosian.com/BH/bh.html

[taxi]

Completely false., Saddam was a protector of the Christians; other minorities as well, but especially the Christians. At the time of the invasion of Iraq just twelve years ago the Christian population was more than five times what it is today. It is an indisputable fact that the US invasion marked the dearth knell of the ancient Church Of The East, as well as of all Syro-Mesopotamian Christiamity as I warned anyone who would listen back in 2002 that it most certainly would.

The Kurds are ethnic Iranic peoples native to the Zagros and Taurus mountain ranges that first entered Mesopotamia in the aftermath of the destruction of Timur. They began to settle in Upper Mesopotamia in the 16th century, given lands belonging to Christians by the ottoman Turks, at war at the time with the Persian Empire. Today they occupy the homes of dead Semitic/Aramaic Christians whom they butchered for their lands in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. All of their main cities, Kirkuk (Karka da Beit Seluk), Irbil (Arbela), Mardin, Dierbakir (Amida), Urfa (Urhoye- the famous Edessa the first Christian city in the world) were originally founded, developed and populated by Assyrian Christians.. In the Hakkari mountains the Kurds currently use the ancient Nestorian churches to house their livestock., Some of these, like Mar Zaia of Jiluwaye, date back to the third century . They speak numerous Iranic languages like Kurmanji and Sorani, Zaza speakers for example, do not, in most cases even consider themselves ethnic Kurds.

It's natural for populations to move. Saying the Kurds should be restricted to the mountainous regions of Northern Iraq is like saying all people with Celtic origins should go back to Germany. The Kurds have been in Northern Syria since at least the Ayyubid dynasty (about 1100 AD) and probably earlier.

Once again, I don't dispute that there were cultures in the region that pre-dated Islam. However, that doesn't change the fact there is currently a continuous and subjugated Kurdish population that ranges from Turkey into Iran, and they have been there for many centuries.

[taxi]

By this point if people don't know or believe isis is an US supported group, I am sorry for those lol.

Really? In what way? Any evidence of this?

The US is spending billions of dollars a year bombing ISIS right now. Although their misguided foreign policy certainly led to the conditions that allowed ISIS to flourish, I don't see any evidence that they are purposely and actively supporting ISIS.

[Salmonberries]

It's natural for populations to move. Saying the Kurds should be restricted to the mountainous regions of Northern Iraq is like saying all people with Celtic origins should go back to Germany. The Kurds have been in Northern Syria since at least the Ayyubid dynasty (about 1100 AD) and probably earlier.

Once again, I don't dispute that there were cultures in the region that pre-dated Islam. However, that doesn't change the fact there is currently a continuous and subjugated Kurdish population that ranges from Turkey into Iran, and they have been there for many centuries.

You seem to have a block when it comes to processing new information that threatens to disrupt your settled opinion. Good luck with that sir, it's going to make life hard as hell.

[Salmonberries]

Really? In what way? Any evidence of this?

The US is spending billions of dollars a year bombing ISIS right now. Although their misguided foreign policy certainly led to the conditions that allowed ISIS to flourish, I don't see any evidence that they are purposely and actively suppo'

[taxi]

That's a picture of a man who never actually held in any position in the federal government of the USA? You do realize that?

[taxi]

You seem to have a block when it comes to processing new information that threatens to disrupt your settled opinion. Good luck with that sir, it's going to make life hard as hell.

It's actually you who has the block...I just pointed out to you that an independent Kurdish state led by Saladin existed around the year 1100 AD.

You also still haven't answered my question:

Why are the Americans attacking Christians in the middle east? What is their motivation?

[Amish Rake Fighter]

That's a picture of a man who never actually held in any position in the federal government of the USA? You do realize that?

You realize he's the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee right? You understand what oversight of the nation's military means right? You realize he's a US senator and not a state senator right ?

[Electro Rock]

ISIS? Pssh!

Look at where the funding and support for the Bolshevik Revolution came from...

[taxi]

You realize he's the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee right? You understand what oversight of the nation's military means right? You realize he's a US senator and not a state senator right ?

Fair enough, he is a member of the legislative branch. I was making reference to the word government as in "forming a government", which is typically used for the executive branch...

It's all a bit of a moot point as that photo doesn't actually show any ISIS members and was debunked long ago.

[Realtor Rod]

By this point if people don't know or believe isis is an US supported group, I am sorry for those lol.

I don't think they were until they started to fight with Assad and then everything went total recall.

[Salmonberries]

It's actually you who has the block...I just pointed out to you that an independent Kurdish state led by Saladin existed around the year 1100 AD.

You also still haven't answered my question:

Why are the Americans attacking Christians in the middle east? What is their motivation?

Wait a minute, Egypt was an independent Kurdish state? Stop making stuff up taxi!

[Salmonberries]

It's actually you who has the block...I just pointed out to you that an independent Kurdish state led by Saladin existed around the year 1100 AD.

You also still haven't answered my question:

Why are the Americans attacking Christians in the middle east? What is their motivation?

You're the only one saying they are. I've been saying consistently that the destruction of Syriac Christianity in Mesopotamia over the past two centuries is, and always has been, a byproduct of Anglo Saxon imperialism in the region, and that it's ultimate disappearance was part of the neoconservative calculation heading into Operation Iraqi Freedom, Your Kurdifying of regional history has been a notable part of the government disinfo campaign and makes we question your authenticity and the sincerity of your activity in this thread.

Also, don't try to suggest that people "hate America" as an initial knee jerk response to criticism of US foreign policy. It's hurtful and it's disrespectful. People that know me well consider me an Americaphile. You met me online one day ago.

[taxi]

You're the only one saying they are. I've been saying consistently that the destruction of Syriac Christianity in Mesopotamia over the past two centuries is, and always has been, a byproduct of Anglo Saxon imperialism in the region, and that it's ultimate disappearance was part of the neoconservative calculation heading into Operation Iraqi Freedom, Your Kurdifying of regional history has been a notable part of the government disinfo campaign and makes we question your authenticity and the sincerity of your activity in this thread.

Also, don't try to suggest that people "hate America" as an initial knee jerk response to criticism of US foreign policy. It's hurtful and it's disrespectful. People that know me well consider me an Americaphile. You met me online one day ago.

Why do you hate the Kurds?