#1Luongofan Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Lol seriously? What did he say to make you take out the gun? Talk about being defensive. If all of you are going to jump on me and the other posters who are defending MG, you have to be able to acknowledge that JB has made some very questionable moves in his short stint here. Off the top of my head: Trading a second for Vey Dorsette contract Sbisa contract Kassian for Prust Kesler for Bonino and pieces Bonino, Clendenning, 2nd for Sutter, 3rd Trading Lack instead of Miller And that's just in two years. This thread wasn't designed to be a MG vs JB thread but gawddam do you JB nut riders get defensive. It's a miracle an intelligent fan who isn't a blindsided cheerleader of a fan maybe there is a god after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 You went back 40 years to try to disprove my statement that drafting pre-Gillis was bad. That's extremely excessive and other posters have gone to point that out. It's so excessive in fact, that it rounds out to about .5 players/year... pretty much supporting the opposite of what you wanted to prove. - It "made" sense but it hasn't panned out. What's more, people got excited about JB simply because he promised to use our draft picks to actually draft and he's done the opposite. Ironic, eh? - "I believe he's worth it" is a concrete argument alright. He's simply not worth it and you know it. - Who cares if Sbisa is young? Age is irrelevant when the said dman is consistently one of your worst. Call me psychic but I predict that users will once again gang up on Sbisa this year because of his boneheaded plays and questionable decisions. - It's true that Kassian had little value but to trade him for a 31 y/o with a 29 point season best is definitely questionable, as much as Canucks fans want to deny it. Sure it brings toughness but we've basically traded away a player with upside for an old rental. - As for Kesler, you might have an argument, but the truth is that CDC does not have the whole story. What's better than to blame the whole thing on MG, right? - I really hated Bonino and was one of the posters who kept insisting that he's not a second line player. With that said, Sutter is horrible in advanced stats and puts up even less points than Bonino. Lo and behold, goals are exactly the thing we're struggling with so far. I don't think Sutter is gonna help us with that unfortunately. - Miller is a goalie that's clearly on the downturn while Lack was the opposite. If Miller keeps playing the way he has into the regular season, you better hope that Markstrom picks up the slack. I, for one, am not willing to put my eggs Markstrom's basket just yet. GMs take chances on trades, JB took his chance on Vey and Baertschi which they are still young so not a failure yet, Kesler had us in a bad spot, and Kassian had his chances and was deemed to be a lost cause here. Also lets not forget that Gillis had his bad trades too or are we forgetting about Ballard and Booth. Luongo as well but much like Kesler was an awkward trade. Sbisa, I like his physical game which is what he was signed for. Young or not he needs to be consistent BUT you can forgive a young player for faults IF he is improving in his play. I thought this pre-season he's had his usual gaffs in turnovers but has looked better in boxing people out and has been our best physical force on the blueline. About his salary, not very appetizing BUT unlike Gillis regime he doesn't have a NTC clearly gives us options. Bonino was good last year but disappeared in the playoffs. Sutter better in faceoffs, better defensively, better PK, more heart, more size, more grit. Yes he doesn't fit a second line roll but I don't think that's Bennings vision on Sutter but seeing as we have to be patient with Horvat / McCann / Vey that's exactly what he is going to do at the moment. Miller vs Lack -- everyone has their opinion not going to even touch this one. OVERALL: Gillis has had a terrible draft record, sure Gaunce / Shinkaruk / Horvat / Hutton are looking good now which is great BUT how do you defend a GM where 0 draft picks have made an impact on the roster the entirety of his tenure? From 2008 - 2014 6 years!! I'm not even a Gillis hater, he had some key acquisitions that likely made us get to the cup final but his time was up and his drafting was questionable. As a direct comparable, Benning drafted McCann at 24th overall in 2015 and has a chance to make the team and has looked better than any of the other prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Lol seriously? What did he say to make you take out the gun? Talk about being defensive. If all of you are going to jump on me and the other posters who are defending MG, you have to be able to acknowledge that JB has made some very questionable moves in his short stint here. Off the top of my head: Trading a second for Vey Dorsette contract Sbisa contract Kassian for Prust Kesler for Bonino and pieces Bonino, Clendenning, 2nd for Sutter, 3rd Trading Lack instead of Miller And that's just in two years. This thread wasn't designed to be a MG vs JB thread but gawddam do you JB nut riders get defensive. But despite all that we got to the playoffs as 3rd in the West. Amazing, how did that happen I wonder? Especially when you factor in all the injuries, the new coach, the poor transactions (according to you) JB realises the one thing Gillis never could. Action is better than standing still. Flux can cause good things to happen. Nobody is perfect. You will never make a trade if the other guy knows you are on the other end of the phone and he thinks you are an assh--- One year in and we still haven't lost ground while at the same time the team is being quietly regenerated. I say that's a pretty good start. As for your last paragraph, please stop insulting our intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etsen3 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 At the time of the trade, Schneider had played a grand total of 98 NHL games, and won 55 games. While I really like Schneider and watched him first hand quite a bit when he played for the Moose, I challenge you to name one other team that managed to get a top 10 pick for any goalie in the last decade, let alone one that played as few games as Schneider had. As for Luongo, nobody ever questioned whether he was a good goaltender. The challenge in moving him was due to his contract and the CBA retroactively working against the Canucks at that point. By all accounts, getting anything for Luongo was a win. Both Calgary and Edmonton were rumoured to have offered more for Schneider. I know they are in our division, but c'mon, that works both ways. Anyways I don't think Gillis is as bad as many say but there's no question that his best work was done earlier in his stint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Gillis is still being paid by the Canucks. Technically, he is still employed? How exactly does that work? Can't Linden go and make Gillis a scout or something so they get some value in return? Or did Gillis get one giant lump sum of cash? The Canucks are perfectly happy paying him to stay away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediahack Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Benning has as many draft picks pushing for spots as Gilly does and he's only been at the helm for two drafts. This team is in the akward sitatuion it finds itself in becasue of terrible drafting by Gilly. Yes, he might get a few good NHLers in the end, but the lost gerneartion will haunt this team for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I've said this in another thread, but it's a pattern. Gillis arguably used Nonis' team to get to the Stanley Cup finals. Nonis arguably used Burke's team before that, etc. It's a pattern. Some of Gillis' moves are going to succeed in Benning's tenure. It doesn't mean Gillis looks better suddenly. This thread is irrelevant in my opinion. Every GM is going to look good depending on the goggle eyes you use. It doesn't change the fact that Benning is our GM now and that Gillis broke down in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 ... Anyways I don't think Gillis is as bad as many say but there's no question that his best work was done earlier in his stint. It may turn out that in drafting his best work was done at the end of his stint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Gillis looks better every passing day because for the first time in Canucks' history, a program has been implemented to develop players right. Not because Gillis was a genius at selecting players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Gillis looks better every passing day because for the first time in Canucks' history, a program has been implemented to develop players right. Not because Gillis was a genius at selecting players. A little ironic given Gillis convinced the Aquilinis to spend more on player development than ever before in my opinion. Just goes to show that some things require stepping stones to work. Money is one thing, but money is merely money. Implementation of that money comes next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I just want to also say that Gillis has proven to me NOT to use a "moneyball" strategy. Do you get gems out of it? Sure you do, but you get a lot of dirt as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notafan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Its funny; everytime I read through the mindless dribble about who is/was responsible for what in regards to this team, it doesn't seem to get any better. 1. Drafting for this team has pretty much sucked from day one. 2. Half of you blame MG; the other half JB for the team's current situation. 3. If you want to give credit where credit is due, look at what BB did for this team. 4. Outside of a few key acquisitions or drafts (several years ago), this team hasn't drafted more than a couple of players worthy of an NHL contract. Who should we give credit to/blame for this? At the end of the day, the owners want to see a playoff worthy team that will generate revenue. With the way the team looks this year, that isn't going to happen. You have players that should have been traded at least a couple of years ago (Burrows, Higgins, Hamhuis). But no, lets keep the dinosaurs going for yet another year. Unlike wine, players don't get better with age (especially when they hiot the mid-30s range). Over the past summer, and to be fair, last year as well, any improvement to this team was very slow coming. I will admit that the Vrbata aquisition was a good deal and allowing Horvat to get his feet wet was smart. However, not trading players that should have gone (Miller Higgins, Burrows, Vey, Hamhuis, Sbisa) to actually acquire talent is going to backfire on this team. So instead of improving this lackluster team, JB acquires less than talented players like Bartkowski (D), Sutter ©, Prust (LW), and pay these guys salaries unworthy of their talents. Not to mention not ridding this team of other dead weight, such as Vey and Corrado. With the "real" talent out there, JB decides to sign other team's dead weight or sign guys that should have been gone. If you want, I could go off on the goaltending fiasco that this team has had to endure of the past decades. When we finally do get someone good, we keep them for a few years then trade them. I know goaltending is a tough spot to fill for any team, but come on, really, look at some of the guys this team has tried to net - Brochu, Hedberg, Skudra, and Schwab to mention a few. Signing Miller hasn't really panned out either. Time for this team to sit back and re-examine which direction they are going or they will be on the bottom for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It may turn out that in drafting his best work was done at the end of his stint. True ...but most forget the league let teams down and MG in particular when they told every one that hooking and restraining fouls were a thing of the past and they'd let skill shine. Hence Schroeder and Hodgson both under sized. Of course the leauges claim soon fell by the way side and for the most part it reverted to a big mans game. MG recognized that and chnaged course by necessity to drafting big players. Before some start naming succesful small players...sure they're there a few but for the most part they're are the exception rather than the rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Haters can hate and question his moves. He shattered my heart and dealt my favourite players... That being said he created by far the most prolific team the nhl had for a span of 3 - 4 years , or hell even the world of sports has seen since the post cap era. No team in the cap era will win back to back president trophies again. Gillis has my respect until I die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Getting Bo was a bold move and it paid off. He may not be with the organization but at least he deserves credit for some of his later decisions. JB I think is a better 'team builder' than MG imo. I think what JB does will be sustainable for years to come as his drafting seems to be very reliable. Not sure if MG would have slotted Guance to the wing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So does Benning. Even more so with Virtanen, McCann, Boeser, Brisbois, etc. Give Benning a few more years & we'll see where are prospects pool looks like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveEmTheCan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Gillis was a smart tactician with an inexperienced eye for talent assessment. In his last years as a gm, you could see the external pressures from ownership, media, fans and other teams really got to him. He overthought everything and ultimately tortorella'ed himself right out of a job. Thankfully, an abundance of thought is not a problem that plagues the team's current general manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashNBash Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm trying to say something clever and meaningful. All I can come up with is sarcasm so I'll just say "Time will tell." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 A lot of people contradict themselves regarding JB, On one hand saying he sucks at trades, while on the other saying he is great at drafting players with his scouting resume Isn't evaluating and assessing talent, the same in trades as in drafting? I would say that you have a better idea of what you are getting with someone in their 20's than someone at 18 (which is more of a crap shoot) So he must be good at assessing talent in both trades and drafting, or, not, or hit/miss like everyone else A majority of the reason for success falls on the young hockey player who is dealing with adolescence, independence sudden wealth, pressures,no longer being the fastest, quickest, strongest, talented player ( now at the NHL level and how you deal with that), injuries, accepting a new role as perhaps not the go to guy anymore, perhaps drugs,alcohol etc things that they didn't worry about while gaining attention Ultimately it will be the player that makes JB look good or not. JB can't predict what will happen and how it will affect their young lives other than taking an educated guess What may look like nothing now, may still blossom like Neely, Vaive and others did I recall a lot of fans dumping on the Sedins as youngsters, but the Sedins never quit believing in themselves and worked through the adversity and eventually were voted best players in the League by their peers.(good thing management wasn't CDC and we traded them after several yrs. of "mediocre players" who never started reaching potential till they were 25 yrs old when they almost doubled there production from the year before Just saying if you believe in his assessing talent, don't be so quick to dismiss his trading assessment just because there isn't instant gratification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 So does Benning. Even more so with Virtanen, McCann, Boeser, Brisbois, etc. Give Benning a few more years & we'll see where are prospects pool looks like... if he keeps trading away second round picks for players like vey and sven , there will be no benning in a few years .. those trades were just garbage . In what was such a strong draft year , linden and Jimbo have embarrassed themselves . I know people think sven is gonna be good but I fear burke new what he was doing when he made that deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.