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Preseason performances: reality vs business of what starting roster should be


TheRussianRocket.

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The reality of the situation with how guys have been playing, this is what the opening night roster should be based off of performances so far. Unfortunately, it won't be it due to the business side of the game.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows

Baerstchi - Horvat - Vrbata

Hansen - Sutter - Virtanen

Gaunce - McCann - Dorsett

Prust

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - Weber

Hutton - Bartkowski

Sbisa, Corrado

Miller - Markstrom

...Remember management saying numerous times if a youngster impresses and shows they deserve a spot on the main roster, they'll make room for him? Sounds like a pr move more than anything because if they truly believe that, they should put the young guns on the roster as their play has earned it so far. At least give them the 9 games and then make a decision based off their play. Virtanen doesn't seem ready as a regular but coming off a shoulder injury, give him his games and see where he goes with it. Best to not rush him just because he's physically mature ala the Kassian treatment and be disappointed if he can't handle it and live up to expectations. McCann so far looks like he's more ready than him in that sense but again, both deserve their 9 games regardless.

And don't give me the "x,y,z players are better off in the Utica/minors because they'll get top minutes there compared to 4th line minutes in the NHL" because we all know the Canucks new direction, WD plays all 4 lines and our 4th line is given 12ish minutes per night which is essentially 3rd line minutes. aka, the scaffolding concept.

Bottom line, Vey stinks. He doesn't deserve to be on the roster but probably will because management doesn't have it in them to own up and put him on waivers. On defense, same with Sbisa. Makes horrible turnovers on a daily basis, contract is something else, and Hutton has already played better than him. Sutter's contract is something else as well and he's been pretty invisible in the preseason himself. He's best suited 3rd/4th C on our lineup. Gaunce has showed he's NHL ready and until Higgins is out, he can take his spot and be sent down when Higgy becomes healthy. Excellent 1st option to have in Utica and honestly, with the way the team is transitioning to, Gaunce could be a regular for us post trade deadline if they decide to deal Higgins/Vrbata. Bartkowski's slick skating and ability to move the puck up ice shows he's ready.

Despite all this, Sbisa has a pre-determined spot based solely off of his contract which management has to uphold and honour so they don't look like fools which all but seals Hutton's chances; maybe if Hamhuis is traded he can become a regular for us? Likewise with Sutter even though he's done close to nothing in the preseason will have a pre-determined spot and be given more opportunities than earned to succeed. And with Vey who they don't have the courage to let go of and say he's not a fit.

...especially sucks since the youngsters have had the best corsi ratings on our team, best 5 on 5 shot differential, and have made the biggest impact on the scoresheet. We're all sick and tired of the vets dogging it out and it's gone on for too long now. We've averaged a goal per game thus far in the preseason which is quite pathetic and already know the limits of our veterans. Prospects showcasing they have offensive ability and smarts, they could change that and give new hope for the next wave of Canucks. And Hutton's 3 assist performance against the Flames, only happened twice all of last year a Canuck dman had a 3 point night with Edler doing it both times. Contractually handcuffed with current guys on the roster but I'd love to see JB make room for these guys like he's said he would.

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You can judge people's performances in pre-season all you want. In the end, it's just pre-season and I think there are way too many examples out there of players who do well in pre-season, only to fall behind afterwards.

It's great that McCann is competing and I'm routing for him just as much as the next guy. However, it's more than just a business standpoint. It's also a development standpoint.

What's going to be best for the player's development in the end? Remember Parent? He was a defenceman who was a 1st rounder who was rushed by the Flyers. Where is he now? Do we really want to rush our prospects based on pre-season performances, because not all prospects who play well in pre-season turn out like Horvat.

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Let's wait and see. If nothing changes in the next few games I'm expecting McCann and Hutton to make the team. Virtanen and Gaunce can be first call ups and will get in the line-up as there will be injuries. Keep your eyes on the ball here people, if 4 of these guys have made the transition to the NHL by the trade deadline, so that we can make a couple of trades and load up on picks, that's the goal here. Now that I can see Hutton on defense, this might be a decent year, but next year we come storming out of the gate.

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The reality of the situation with how guys have been playing, this is what the opening night roster should be based off of performances so far. Unfortunately, it won't be it due to the business side of the game.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows

Baerstchi - Horvat - Vrbata

Hansen - Sutter - Virtanen

Gaunce - McCann - Dorsett

Prust

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - Weber

Hutton - Bartkowski

Sbisa, Corrado

Miller - Markstrom

...Remember management saying numerous times if a youngster impresses and shows they deserve a spot on the main roster, they'll make room for him? Sounds like a pr move more than anything because if they truly believe that, they should put the young guns on the roster as their play has earned it so far. At least give them the 9 games and then make a decision based off their play. Virtanen doesn't seem ready as a regular but coming off a shoulder injury, give him his games and see where he goes with it. Best to not rush him just because he's physically mature ala the Kassian treatment and be disappointed if he can't handle it and live up to expectations. McCann so far looks like he's more ready than him in that sense but again, both deserve their 9 games regardless.

And don't give me the "x,y,z players are better off in the Utica/minors because they'll get top minutes there compared to 4th line minutes in the NHL" because we all know the Canucks new direction, WD plays all 4 lines and our 4th line is given 12ish minutes per night which is essentially 3rd line minutes. aka, the scaffolding concept.

Bottom line, Vey stinks. He doesn't deserve to be on the roster but probably will because management doesn't have it in them to own up and put him on waivers. On defense, same with Sbisa. Makes horrible turnovers on a daily basis, contract is something else, and Hutton has already played better than him. Sutter's contract is something else as well and he's been pretty invisible in the preseason himself. He's best suited 3rd/4th C on our lineup. Gaunce has showed he's NHL ready and until Higgins is out, he can take his spot and be sent down when Higgy becomes healthy. Excellent 1st option to have in Utica and honestly, with the way the team is transitioning to, Gaunce could be a regular for us post trade deadline if they decide to deal Higgins/Vrbata. Bartkowski's slick skating and ability to move the puck up ice shows he's ready.

Despite all this, Sbisa has a pre-determined spot based solely off of his contract which management has to uphold and honour so they don't look like fools which all but seals Hutton's chances; maybe if Hamhuis is traded he can become a regular for us? Likewise with Sutter even though he's done close to nothing in the preseason will have a pre-determined spot and be given more opportunities than earned to succeed. And with Vey who they don't have the courage to let go of and say he's not a fit.

...especially sucks since the youngsters have had the best corsi ratings on our team, best 5 on 5 shot differential, and have made the biggest impact on the scoresheet. We're all sick and tired of the vets dogging it out and it's gone on for too long now. We've averaged a goal per game thus far in the preseason which is quite pathetic and already know the limits of our veterans. Prospects showcasing they have offensive ability and smarts, they could change that and give new hope for the next wave of Canucks. And Hutton's 3 assist performance against the Flames, only happened twice all of last year a Canuck dman had a 3 point night with Edler doing it both times. Contractually handcuffed with current guys on the roster but I'd love to see JB make room for these guys like he's said he would.

You can't really compare veterans preseason performance like sutters. You already know what you are going to get with him because of what he has done consistently in his career so in the preseason rookies would have to show that he can out perform that not what hes doing in the preseason.

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By great if you mean didn't completely have a brainfart and played a sound game for once, then yes. Likewise, should be a 6/7 dman and being paid like a top 4 is the knock.

He's paid like a 4/5 guy which he is. And no, I thought he played great. Played physical, made some nice passes/plays and no notable mistakes.

Let's wait and see. If nothing changes in the next few games I'm expecting McCann and Hutton to make the team. Virtanen and Gaunce can be first call ups and will get in the line-up as there will be injuries. Keep your eyes on the ball here people, if 4 of these guys have made the transition to the NHL by the trade deadline, so that we can make a couple of trades and load up on picks, that's the goal here. Now that I can see Hutton on defense, this might be a decent year, but next year we come storming out of the gate.

Virtanen can not be recalled.

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The reality of the situation with how guys have been playing, this is what the opening night roster should be based off of performances so far. Unfortunately, it won't be it due to the business side of the game.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows

Baerstchi - Horvat - Vrbata

Hansen - Sutter - Virtanen

Gaunce - McCann - Dorsett

Prust

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - Weber

Hutton - Bartkowski

Sbisa, Corrado

Miller - Markstrom

...Remember management saying numerous times if a youngster impresses and shows they deserve a spot on the main roster, they'll make room for him? Sounds like a pr move more than anything because if they truly believe that, they should put the young guns on the roster as their play has earned it so far. At least give them the 9 games and then make a decision based off their play. Virtanen doesn't seem ready as a regular but coming off a shoulder injury, give him his games and see where he goes with it. Best to not rush him just because he's physically mature ala the Kassian treatment and be disappointed if he can't handle it and live up to expectations. McCann so far looks like he's more ready than him in that sense but again, both deserve their 9 games regardless.

And don't give me the "x,y,z players are better off in the Utica/minors because they'll get top minutes there compared to 4th line minutes in the NHL" because we all know the Canucks new direction, WD plays all 4 lines and our 4th line is given 12ish minutes per night which is essentially 3rd line minutes. aka, the scaffolding concept.

Bottom line, Vey stinks. He doesn't deserve to be on the roster but probably will because management doesn't have it in them to own up and put him on waivers. On defense, same with Sbisa. Makes horrible turnovers on a daily basis, contract is something else, and Hutton has already played better than him. Sutter's contract is something else as well and he's been pretty invisible in the preseason himself. He's best suited 3rd/4th C on our lineup. Gaunce has showed he's NHL ready and until Higgins is out, he can take his spot and be sent down when Higgy becomes healthy. Excellent 1st option to have in Utica and honestly, with the way the team is transitioning to, Gaunce could be a regular for us post trade deadline if they decide to deal Higgins/Vrbata. Bartkowski's slick skating and ability to move the puck up ice shows he's ready.

Despite all this, Sbisa has a pre-determined spot based solely off of his contract which management has to uphold and honour so they don't look like fools which all but seals Hutton's chances; maybe if Hamhuis is traded he can become a regular for us? Likewise with Sutter even though he's done close to nothing in the preseason will have a pre-determined spot and be given more opportunities than earned to succeed. And with Vey who they don't have the courage to let go of and say he's not a fit.

...especially sucks since the youngsters have had the best corsi ratings on our team, best 5 on 5 shot differential, and have made the biggest impact on the scoresheet. We're all sick and tired of the vets dogging it out and it's gone on for too long now. We've averaged a goal per game thus far in the preseason which is quite pathetic and already know the limits of our veterans. Prospects showcasing they have offensive ability and smarts, they could change that and give new hope for the next wave of Canucks. And Hutton's 3 assist performance against the Flames, only happened twice all of last year a Canuck dman had a 3 point night with Edler doing it both times. Contractually handcuffed with current guys on the roster but I'd love to see JB make room for these guys like he's said he would.

a thinly veiled Sbisa bashing thread I see. He played a strong game last night and has outplayed Weber, Bartkowski and Corrado.

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a thinly veiled Sbisa bashing thread I see. He played a strong game last night and has outplayed Weber, Bartkowski and Corrado.

It's not. He played sound last night and pretty bad game before against Calgary. It's about youngsters, not one player like you're making it out to be.

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There's a difference between rushing a player and letting one play at or within reach of his level of competence. RNH should have gone back to junior, but how much more will McCann learn from and develop there versus now being in the NHL?

The biggest issue with RNH is they should have eased him in. I had no issue with him being in the NHL, I had issues with them putting the load on his shoulders at 18. Both McCaan and Virt could be in the lineup and have little to no pressure to carry the team for the next couple of seasons........that's how you do it, imo. The Oilers may have ruined multiple young players by putting so much pressure on them.

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I know Sbisa makes some mistakes, but I don't think he is anywhere near as bad as he's made out to be. He has top pairing potential, but makes some bone head mistakes. But if you are being fair to him, he has been making them less and less often and IMO has been developing into the potential he was drafted for. He is huge, strong, skates well and shoots hard. He can do things due to his talents (size, strength, speed) that most others will never be able to do. His only draw back over the years (including in Anaheim) has been a penchant to make dumb plays. But I think that has improved a lot since he came to Vancouver.

And how is putting a rookie in his spot going to prevent stupid mistakes made by young defensemen? Sbisa is still young, especially by defensemen terms...

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It's not. He played sound last night and pretty bad game before against Calgary. It's about youngsters, not one player like you're making it out to be.

He didn't play badly against Calgary at all. In fact, he's been one of the more solid, consistent dmen in pre-season. Put it to bed, he's a good 4/5 dman and is right about where he should be on the pay scale.

I agree Sutton has outplayed a lot of guys and deserves a shot, but he will likely start in Utica to see how he handles the rigors of playing and prepping every day. If he shines, you can bet JB will find a way to get him back up.

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I know Sbisa makes some mistakes, but I don't think he is anywhere near as bad as he's made out to be. He has top pairing potential, but makes some bone head mistakes. But if you are being fair to him, he has been making them less and less often and IMO has been developing into the potential he was drafted for. He is huge, strong, skates well and shoots hard. He can do things due to his talents (size, strength, speed) that most others will never be able to do. His only draw back over the years (including in Anaheim) has been a penchant to make dumb plays. But I think that has improved a lot since he came to Vancouver.

And how is putting a rookie in his spot going to prevent stupid mistakes made by young defensemen? Sbisa is still young, especially by defensemen terms...

Pretty much agree with this.

But as we all know, some people here need (want) a whipping boy.

I would look to Lidster when thinking of Sbisa - it's his job (Lidster) to get this player to the highest level (whatever that ends up being) he can. If Sbisa is in fact underperforming (which I don't necessarily agree with) how much of that responsibility should rest with coaching and how much with the player himself?

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Though I agree that Sbisa isn't the best while on the puck, I thought he's more than earned his spot this preseason. Defensively he's looked solid, and he's bringing the physical element that our defensive group really lacks (I know Edler brings it sometimes, but inconsistently). He is overpaid, but you make it sound like he's only going to be on the team because of his contract, which I disagree with entirely.

What I really think they need to do with Sbisa is help him learn how to make the simple play with the puck. Remember how bad Alberts was when he first came to Vancouver? They worked with him on keeping the play simple, and I thought he was fairly solid after that. Sbisa is much more talented than Alberts in general, so I think it could really help his game.

I'd be faster to complain about Weber. He suffers from the same weakness as Vey, where he gets shoved around way too easily. Though he had a good season for us in terms of production last year so I won't write him off yet. Hamhuis has also had quite a few questionable moments, I feel like I've noticed him in a bad way much too frequently. Though he's always a bit of a slow starter, so again not too worried.

I like your Vey bashing though, that's up my ally.

Overall I'd rate this thread 5/10.

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Pretty much agree with this.

But as we all know, some people here need (want) a whipping boy.

I would look to Lidster when thinking of Sbisa - it's his job (Lidster) to get this player to the highest level (whatever that ends up being) he can. If Sbisa is in fact underperforming (which I don't necessarily agree with) how much of that responsibility should rest with coaching and how much with the player himself?

I watched him closely last night and realized his biggest issue is he has Bieksa-itis. He does so many things well, but he gets lacidasical about his passes and carrying the puck at times. If he can move away from that, he has the tools to be a #2-3 guy, imo.

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If you need to put a guy, who you actually do want to keep, on waivers, just before the season begins is the best time to do this as most teams are having the same problems the Canucks are having, and really have no room to pick up a player. I believe we slipped Markstrom through on waivers last year at this time, though we really did not want to lose him. I am guessing Vey will be put on waivers and he will slip through...we shall see.

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